The Breakdown…

[MrScorpio]

Last edited Sat Sep 12, 2015, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)

First of all, I want to thank all of you for having confidence in my point of view regarding the letter. Just to let you know, I'm pretty opened minded about the reasons that someone may disagree with what I'm about to say, but I reserve the right to judge whether or not what is said makes any sense. I'm not going to sit here and deal with straw man arguments and faulty logic. The signs are all there and I'm quite aware that I may not come up with all of the answers.

I'm going to try to be fair.

Secondly, I'm going to make some references to this excellent Salon article, http://www.salon.com/2015/04/10/white_americas_racial_illiteracy_why_our_national_conversation_is_poisoned_from_the_start_partner/ as part of my rationale.

That said, let's get started:

Number One, the obvious: Whomever sent this letter was trying to send a message. This is part of the communication process and all the elements are there. You have the message, you have the sender of that message (writer), you have the receiver of that message (Bravenak) and you have a clearly explained expectation of feedback, which we will get to. The message had a specific purpose that the writer (sender) as trying to get across and we'll examine that as well. But most of all, I intend to demonstrate clear motive and technique.

My first impression is that the writer is relatively cogent. Despite the tone and the use of invectives, we're dealing with a writer who was direct and communicated their intentions thusly. Let's not try and read too much into the message being sent (divide and conquer, false flag and other such nonsense). The letter as written was clearly done to be taken as face value. I'll explain this as we go along. Most of all, I really have no reason to think that it was written by some knuckle-dragger… No grunts.

Part one the address:

bravenak,

The first question that you have to ask is, why did the writer take the time to address Bravenak by her user name, especially since he knows her IRL name and even wrote that on the envelope?

There's two things to consider here. The first being so obvious that the writer wanted to establish the fact that he's personally connected one name to the other. This was an explicit demonstration that the writer knows who the Bravenak is and he knows her IRL name. Clearly a form of intimidation, as her confidentiality is now being violated.

The second part is a reestablishment of a previous encounter. The writer is establishing the fact that they've had a previous encounter. He's using her DU user name, which implies that the previous encounter happened on DU, from one DU member to another. He mentions DU later on in the letter, which excludes an encounter elsewhere, like of Twitter. As shown later on in the letter as well, the writer is clearly demonstrating his personal own sense of dominance over Bravenak through implicit intimidation in a particular arena. By addressing her by her user name, he has established that DU is in fact that arena. He's not as concerned about IRL.


Part Two, sentence one of the first para:

We grew tired of your race baiting bullshit
against the only candidate that cares
about the plight of minorities and the 99%.

He's writing the letter to her personally. We already can figure out that he doesn't like her at all, so why has he used the personal pronoun "We?" There are two ways to look at this: One, he's either a self-appointed representative of the group that he identifies with, or, two, he's inferring that he has accomplices. I'm leaning towards choice number one. Mostly because of the fact that the letter was written, dripping with an aura of white male entitlement and white fragility. To this writer, this is personal. He's in protective mode here.

This also is a direct attempt to isolate Bravenak. He's pointing out the fact that he has others who are like minded. He has sympathetic friends and they're all aligned against her. This theme continues throughout the letter. Obviously, he feels this way because he's identified similar attitudes to his own throughout the various discussions. Please make a not of that.

The "race baiting" accusation is clearly a demonstration of the writer experiencing race-based stress. To the writer, Bravenak's opinions about race and how racial matters relate to his candidate of choice must not be allowed. From the Salon article:

This systemic and institutional control allows those of us who are white in North America to live in a social environment that protects and insulates us from race-based stress. We have organized society to reproduce and reinforce our racial interests and perspectives. Further, we are centered in all matters deemed normal, universal, benign, neutral and good. Thus, we move through a wholly racialized world with an unracialized identity (e.g. white people can represent all of humanity, people of color can only represent their racial selves).

Challenges to this identity become highly stressful and even intolerable. The following are examples of the kinds of challenges that trigger racial stress for white people:

Suggesting that a white person’s viewpoint comes from a radicalized frame of reference (challenge to objectivity);

People of color talking directly about their own racial perspectives (challenge to white taboos on talking openly about race);

People of color choosing not to protect the racial feelings of white people in regards to race (challenge to white racial expectations and need/entitlement to racial comfort);

People of color not being willing to tell their stories or answer questions about their racial experiences (challenge to the expectation that people of color will serve us);

A fellow white not providing agreement with one’s racial perspective (challenge to white solidarity);

Receiving feedback that one’s behavior had a racist impact (challenge to white racial innocence);

Suggesting that group membership is significant (challenge to individualism);

An acknowledgment that access is unequal between racial groups (challenge to meritocracy);

Being presented with a person of color in a position of leadership (challenge to white authority);

Being presented with information about other racial groups through, for example, movies in which people of color drive the action but are not in stereotypical roles, or multicultural education (challenge to white centrality).

Rather than being allowed to voice her own opinion as a equally valid one, the writer has made it clear that Bravenak should be expressing a sense of appreciation towards Bernie instead. After all, how dare she… A mere black woman, question Bernie? To the writer, she obviously doesn't know her place. So, he wrote this letter to fix the situation.

Part Three, sentences 2 and 3

You and your fucking "I really like Bernie"
bullshit. So you got 4 hides in one day. You
deserved more.

If anything, these sentences show how much the writer is invested in Bernie. To him, no true supporter of Sanders would EVER question his positions on any matter at all, much less anything about race and coming from a mere black woman. The fact that she did dare to question Bernie meant that she deserved to be harshly punished for it. He's demonstrating his sense of righteous indignation fulfilled, even somewhat insufficiently in his own opinion.

He's expressing his own raw sense of anger and righteous indignation. He also made sure to notify Bravenak that he was paying close attention to how she was treated for her apparent offense. This would imply that he had a direct role in alerting on her posts. He didn't admit it, but he has been monitoring her. Who other than a DUer would maintain such close accounting on the inner workings of the site?

When you come off your suspension, you keep
running your fucking mouth, guarantee you're
going to get alerted on and suspended again.
We'll make a point of it. There's a hell of a lot
more of us than there is of you. So I suggest
you dial it back a whole fucking bunch.

Again this is another indication that the writer and others of like mind plan on monitoring her and will engage in further concerted efforts against her. Another reference to others and their actions speaks to collusion. This is a direct threat and a tacit statement that, in regards to her own opinions, she had no rights that they're bound to tolerate. This is an establishment of privileged ownership of DU as well. Black voices are not welcome here to them, unless those voices are completely and utterly supportive of the writer's preferred candidate. Otherwise, the offending party is to be made an example of.

That is the specific type of feedback that the writer was calling for in his message: Submit or be punished.

Part Four, The Sign Off.

GO BERNIE!!!

Mr. Citizen
DU Member

I want to used this part of the letter to reinforce my contention that the writer is a member of the site and not some outsider troll:

All three elements point to this.

1. "GO BERNIE!!!" - We shouldn't expect outside trolls care about Bernie. As someone coming to his defense, why would anyone else outside of a Bernie supporting DUer care what anyone on this site said about Bernie? Bernie is not the struggle of RW trolls. To them, all Democrats are bad. Rather than specifying Bernie as a singular point of contention, someone not invested in a single candidate would tend to generalize. A fake DUer would a point of criticizing Bravenak for making questionable comments about any of the candidates. Only Bernie matters to the writer, which would indicate that he regularly expresses contempt towards the others, Hillary especially.

2. "Mr. Citizen" - He clearly establishing a sense of patriarchal dominance here, which coincides with the way he established ownership and identification with the site as well. He's not just a "Citizen," he's own a title which establishes his role, as place in the hierarchy over that of Bravenak.

3. "DU Member" - More reinforcement of the same theme that was played out through the letter.

Outside RW Trolls do not care who any particular DUer would support. Again, to them, they're all bad.

Next, trolls operate on a strict time-line that's singularly scheduled for instant gratification. The letter writer took the time to uncover Bravenak's real name, type the letters, address them and send them to her. That meant that the writer was being deliberate. Where's the instant payoff in that?

This letter wasn't meant for general consumption, because there was absolutely no guarantee that Bravenak would show the letters off on line. Had she chose not to show the letters off, none of us would be having this conversation. If she had not chosen to show the letters off, an attempt to divide and conquer DUers against each other would have never happened. Such a campaign against the site, through her, would have failed.

The letter reached the only intended target, Bravenak, not the site in general. Outsider trolls would only target a specific DUer unless that DUer could be made an example of to the rest of the membership.

This letter is another phase in an ongoing, internecine conflict on DU. It's part of DUers targeting other DUers, an extension of the way that DUers, especially against those members of color who are daring to speak their own mind, who are being marginalized through the jury system. The letter made several direct references to that fact, with guarantees that such harassment is bound to continue. Outsiders, especially people who are political outliers, have no way to count on DUers in general to vote in juries a specific way.

Everything here points to a single, white male, Bernie supporting member, apparently one living in Florida (Or perhaps colluding with someone living in Florida.) A person who felt entitled enough to write the letters, send them to Bravenak, attempted to conceal his identity with the use of phony return addresses, expressed contempt for anyone who dared not support his candidate of choice, felt confident enough to point out that he has allies who will collude with his own campaign against black DUers, believed that he can use his own sense of white fragility as a justification to target prominent black members of the site and felt confident enough in his own efforts to believe that he'll be generally supported by a majority of other members and get away with it.

Again, I call for this person, or persons responsible to be identified and their membership removed.

Attacking any member in such a threatening way should not be tolerated at all.

Lastly, if I've missed something, I'd love to hear it from you. I wrote this while I was somewhat tired, so please forgive whatever tiepoze I've missed. I'll fix them later, after I wake up.

Right now, it's good night, sweet prince.

Thanks again and I'll catch you all later.

Addendum:

The matter of the writer's gender: man or woman?

Let's go back to the overall tone of the letter; it's both direct and straight forward. The only real reason why the writer would want to hide their identity is the fact that, if they were identified, they would most assuredly lose their own precious DU membership.

Men and whites make up the majority members on this board and since the writer had set an aggressively dominant tone against a woman, the angle there was to tell Bravenak that she's outnumbered on this forum and nothing more.

After being direct throughout the entire text, what would be the point of misdirecting the reader over the matter of gender? The writer going straightforward and writing down their own true angry feelings and intent, only to do a 180 over the matter of their own gender and write a "Mr." instead of a "Ms" makes absolutely no sense at all.

Now one other thought that I had. Notice that the only threat against Bravenak in the letter was one against her own membership status. Although the whole point of the letter was to intimidate her, no physical harm was inferred. This should be important to consider.

Not threatening physical harm lessens the legal liability against the writer. It's still harassment, but not in an overtly physical way. We're only talking about Bravenak's DU membership. In matters of online harassment, without threats of physical harm ("I'm going to shoot you in your fucking face," and shit like that), recourses are normally deferred to admins and owners of the particular site.

I'm quite sure that the writer intentionally chose to write it that way. Like I said before, we're not dealing with a knuckle dragger here. What we're actually dealing with is an angry asshole with race and patriarchy fragility issues.

Again, this is an angle that points to the culprit being a member. Outside trolls aren't that concerned about forcing members off of a site in which they're not, themselves, members. Outside trolls would rather be outside of the site that they're trolling. When they do sign up to troll, they know full well that their time is limited and their ability to harass will be stopped by the mods once they're discovered. A member of this site can't just create another identity and use that to troll, they know that something like that would violate the TOS and, once again, they would lose their precious DU membership. The poison pen letter was a more cowardly and less risky way to get their point across.

Bravenak's membership status would be only another member's concern. Writing the letter was clearly a direct act of intentional disassociation from within a shared confine.

[JI7]

1. i wonder if it's one of those who have had positive interactions with her also

remember that bravenak was mostly critical of clinton and while she had problems with sanders campaign she was still willing to support him .

that was not enough for the writer of the letter. they could not stand that she would be critical of sanders(whether directly or indirectly) in any way.

remember how personally they took the blm protests against sanders. "how dare they" type of attitude.

i have been saying that bravenak made certain people feel uncomfortable. if she was a clinton supporter one could just say her motivation in anything negative about sanders is because she wants clinton to win.

but to have a black woman as outspoken and doesn't hold back on this very sensitive issue was very personal for some.

[MuseRider]

65. She made every attempt

to let people know she was for Bernie, then after many people would not listen and kept up with all the protective Bernie stuff without attempting (many people) to really listen to BLM and the supporters of BLM she began to question that support and it just got worse from there.

Close minded and fragile is what it was and it never had to be that way.

You stated the situation exactly the way I saw it play out.

[PeaceNikki]

2. Does anyone have the postmark date on this letter?

[MrScorpio]

3. 3 Sept

Exact same postmark code for each letter

[PeaceNikki]

4. Interesting. A couple weeks after her suspension.

So either something happened to piss them off or they conspired and/or sat in the letter for a few weeks.

[Chitown Kev]

9. My guess would be that they sat on it

but were (and are) still active at DU...the key there is that they "grew tired" rather than "they are tired"

[sheshe2]

13. They sat on it.

And their anger built over time. They seethed, hence the letter.

[betsuni]

14. Maybe waited until they were in another city to mail it.

Wait until on vacation or business trip or something. That's what I'd do (if I were an asshole and not too lazy to go to all the trouble).

[mercuryblues]

27. In part it could be

that with Bravenak's time out the letter writer was denied the opportunity to kick her around on DU. The letter writer lost the target of their anger. Add to that the open support Bravenak received from many here infuriated the letter writer even more. The fact that Bravenak didn't show anger about her suspension and even made light of it on occasion is what put the letter writer over the top.

[Person 2713]

63. This seems like a possibility .

I will add my own thought here- I am not convinced it is a male..

[mercuryblues]

78. the best

I can say is that it is more likely than not to be male. Another Duer pointed out the odds in another thread. Statistically males are mostly the ones who engage in harassment and DU has a higher percentage of males than females. Though it would not surprise me if the letter writer was female.

[lunamagica]

80. I agree with this. I have been thinking it is more likel a woman. eom

[dumbcat]

51. Or it took a few days to remail

through a remailing service to hide the origin location of the letter.

[gollygee]

95. Or they were waiting for a planned vacation to Florida

so the postmark wouldn't have thier hometown.

[Cha]

113. Maybe they didn't like seeing mine and others' Avatars depicting Brave was Censored on DU?

Who knows.. what fomenting brought on his need to write this threatening letter to Brave via the US Mail?

[lovemydog]

5. Thanks for this well-reasoned post MrScorpio.

I call for this person to identify himself or herself. If anyone has information I urge them to come forward. There may be someone who knows who wrote the letter or had a hand in drafting or sending it. I hope administrators can help identify 'Mr. Citizen' and revoke their membership.

A place to start, in addition to speaking with bravenak, may be with who was hostile toward her in threads where she was alerted on and had posts hidden. Expanding out, with threads when she moved from Sanders supporter to undecided.

Bravenak - much respect and support.

[lovemydog]

6. A couple questions.

What makes you think it's a man?

And what makes you think the person acted alone?

I'm not saying it's not possible, or even refuting it. I just wonder if there's a basis for narrowing that down.

Also, I'll add that in many crime books I've read, it seems like people with secrets have a hard time resisting blabbing to others.

That's why I ask that anyone with any information please provide it.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. As to the man, the demographic suggest it, if nothing else.

Most internet trolls are male, and I agree that the tone of the letter is full of testosterone. So I'd give it at least a 90% chance of being a guy. I'd say a 95% chance that it's someone with at least one DU account. I don't exclude the idea that it's a 'conservative troll', lots of them also have accounts on DU, Daily Kos, and other liberal blogs. But people who like to 'twist the knife' to this degree like to be up close and personal to witness and delight in the turmoil they create and be able to nudge it along. There are no doubt conservative trolls hanging out at DU, and posing as both Bernie AND Hillary supporters. Keeping divisiveness going doesn't require you choose a specific side of a divide, just slightly different tactics for each. And while 'birds of a feather' flock together, you point out the reason why it's likely just one person - the more people involved, the more likely the 'plan' falls apart, and somebody 'blabs'. So while the alert stalking might be multiple people, the letter sender probably acted alone.

[Glassunion]

55. Some demographics.

About 25% of Americans surveyed admitted to being a troll on the Internet.

Of those trolling opinion or facts Males compromise 30% and Females 18%.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

62. That's basically 2:1 right there on trolling in general.

And this went beyond 'trolling opinions or facts'.

[MADem]

105. I thought most DUers were women. Just an impression; I have no stats.

I was of the impression that the writer was a woman, trying to behave in a testosterone laden fashion with the swearing and the "MR" and so forth to create an impression that it was a male.

I do think it is a DUer. I don't think it's someone from another website--well, they might be signed up at another website, but I think they are well entrenched here at DU.

I'd like to see the handwriting--that often provides a clue. Handwriting often has a gender.

[brush]

7. Bravo, bravo, bravo!

Brilliant analysis.

This should help ferret out this insecure, racist bastard.

[gwheezie]

8. I thought the letter was pretty clear

And you hit the points that it is more likely to be a white, male, racist who has some odd personality disorder where his self worth is somehow tied to Bernie Sanders. I call racist because I've read far more intense Bernie bashing from other posters on this site. Something about a vocal strong black woman was a very personal attack on this letter writer. Doesn't make a lick of sense to get that stirred up over someone who shares her pov on an internet forum unless the letter writer thought s critique of Bernie was directed at him. It's damn weird.

[Squinch]

47. I think this is it exactly.

"more likely to be a white, male, racist who has some odd personality disorder where his self worth is somehow tied to Bernie Sanders."

I'll put in the "not all Bernie supporters" disclaimer here, and state that I am a white woman who is undecided about the primary. I like Bernie.

But there are some here who are so rabid in their insistence that everyone support Bernie without question, that there must be something more at work than the surface politics.

The idea of a female candidate, and the idea of a black woman questioning their white male candidate, is simply too much for them, and they need to lash out with a much-watered-down version of a white hood and burning cross to say "we know who you are and where you are, so shut up or we'll shut you up."

You and Mr. Scorpio have hit on the clear motivation: this all just goes back to the old "we're the white guys in power, and we're going to keep it that way" terror of that a certain segment of society about the loss of their unearned privileges.

And all the other white guys adamantly shouting, "there's nothing to see here," and "it was just a random outsider passing through town so there is no reason for us to examine ourselves over this" are simply the same voices that always show up in closed communities that have something rotten in their core.

[Hekate]

90. Point. Misogyny and racism combined. nt

[Number23]

93. Absolutely fabulous post. Thank you for that.

this all just goes back to the old "we're the white guys in power, and we're going to keep it that way" terror of that a certain segment of society about the loss of their unearned privileges.

And all the other white guys adamantly shouting, "there's nothing to see here," and "it was just a random outsider passing through town so there is no reason for us to examine ourselves over this" are simply the same voices that always show up in closed communities that have something rotten in their core.

Spot on.

[steve2470]

129. pretty disturbed individual if you ask me

Axis II: Mixed Personality Disorder, with Antisocial and Narcissistic traits (wild ass guess)

Probably an Axis I as well (again, a WAG)

[pnwmom]

10. Great job, MrScorpio. And you made an important point that hadn't occurred to me at all.

If this were an attempt to disrupt DU, it would have been defeated completely by her simply tossing the letter. No one on DU ever had to hear about it. So it seems that is a very unlikely motive.

I already thought the letter targeted her -- not DU in general-- but you've really sealed the case for me.

[sheshe2]

11. White America’s racial illiteracy: Why our national conversation is poisoned from the start

The author of "What Does It Mean to Be White?" examines the ways white people implode when they talk about race
Dr. Robin DiAngelo, The Good Men Project



Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.

Mainstream dictionary definitions reduce racism to individual racial prejudice and the intentional actions that result. The people that commit these intentional acts are deemed bad, and those that don’t are good. If we are against racism and unaware of committing racist acts, we can’t be racist; racism and being a good person have become mutually exclusive. But this definition does little to explain how racial hierarchies are consistently reproduced.

Social scientists understand racism as a multidimensional and highly adaptive system—a system that ensures an unequal distribution of resources between racial groups. Because whites built and dominate all significant institutions, (often at the expense of and on the uncompensated labor of other groups), their interests are embedded in the foundation of U.S. society.

While individual whites may be against racism, they still benefit from the distribution of resources controlled by their group. Yes, an individual person of color can sit at the tables of power, but the overwhelming majority of decision-makers will be white. Yes, white people can have problems and face barriers, but systematic racism won’t be one of them. This distinction—between individual prejudice and a system of unequal institutionalized racial power—is fundamental. One cannot understand how racism functions in the U.S. today if one ignores group power relations.

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/10/white_americas_racial_illiteracy_why_our_national_conversation_is_poisoned_from_the_start_partner/

Thank you MrScorpio. True analysis.

I need to get out of here for awhile. I need a break. This place is pissing me off.

Thanks again.

K&R

[Gothmog]

151. I just read this article

It was excellent

[NBachers]

12. 'We' is a pronoun used by Theodore Kaszynski to imply the existence of a group called Freedom Club.

He claimed that there was a terrorist group called Freedom Club. But it was discovered that the "we" of Freedom Club was only one person, Theodore Kaszynski.

I think that the "we" in the letters to Bravenak is, in reality, one disaffected stalker.

[Number23]

15. Skinner has made it abundantly clear that all of this is in our heads.

That alert stalking isn't real, everything is aweeeeesoooooomee!! (to quote the Lego Movie here) and that if AA members are getting hides for saying things like "Sanders supporter and idiot are not mutually exclusive" (or whatever 1SBM said verbatim) then we just need to watch our mouths and be good boys and girls and allow these good white folks to think for us the way they obviously feel that they should. Then "they" will like us and stop trying to run us off this web site.

Your analysis is interesting to me, particularly the bits where you mention that 1) bravenak's biggest crime to whoever wrote that letter was that she was a black woman who dared to question Bernie Sanders and his commitment and plans for certain issues and 2) that the only black voices that are welcome here are the ones that are in firm alignment with the (majority white) masses. Of course, this is not anything that anyone didn't already know but it still bears repeating, particularly when you consider that there are very, very few poc of color on DU and those of us who are non-committed, support other candidates or not quite ready for whatever reason to anoint Bernard Sanders the Patron Saint of Colored Folks seem to very clearly outnumber those who are.

So this is all a very clear attempt to lessen our voices and potency on this web site. Why anyone thinks that DU matters that much or would be worth 1/1000th this much trouble is simply beyond me. It is also simply beyond obvious that whoever wrote that letter was not black, doesn't give the first shit about black people, and considers us to be infants or imbeciles that need to be told what's good for us.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. Skinner is wrong n/t

[yardwork]

53. I agree. Skinner and the other Admins have a blind spot

When it comes to minority groups.

Sorry to say this, but they have trouble seeing past their own white straight male privilege and is gotten them in trouble before.

No offense meant, David! I just think you're wrong about this.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. And advertising starts at $500

They have a business to run. I'm USB corporate America so I can respect that.

[steve2470]

71. Skinner is wrong, with all due respect to you, Skinner

I honestly think Skinner is a good man. I really do. I've "known" him off and on for 11 years.

However, he needs to seriously examine what's going on with PoC in the past and in the present. It's fucking obvious to me that PoC are being alert stalked.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. Idiot and Bernie supporter are not necessarily exclusive descriptors. n/t

was his verbatim. And it's perfectly logical. I'm sure there are idiots who support each candidate.

And dollars to donuts I don't get hidden for saying the same thing, and agreeing with him. Because he was being alert stalked, and I'm not.

Why anyone thinks that DU matters that much or would be worth 1/1000th this much trouble is simply beyond me.

Whatever nutcase did this has no sense of control in the real world. They're a small person, who no doubt feels the world is 'cheating them', that minorities are 'taking things from them', and all the other arglebargle that goes into the usual scapegoating excuses for feelings of personal failure. So by screwing with people on a blog, and assigning it more importance in their mind, they're asserting the 'control' they lack in real life, making themselves feel 'potent'.

[JustAnotherGen]

43. +1

[Number23]

91. Damn good points, Erich

And it's perfectly logical. I'm sure there are idiots who support each candidate.

The fact that some want so desperately to pretend that saying something so common sense and logical is an "attack" does absolutely nothing but underscore the truth of 1SBM's statement imo.

And dollars to donuts I don't get hidden for saying the same thing, and agreeing with him. Because he was being alert stalked, and I'm not.

Yep.

[Agschmid]

98. Yup.

[Cha]

117. Mahalo for your post, EBB. "So by screwing with people on a blog, and assigning it more importance

in their mind, they're asserting the 'control' they lack in real life, making themselves feel 'potent".

Exactly. Thank you.

[steve2470]

147. +1 nt

[SwankyXomb]

108. Skinner doesn't care

Just keep on clicking.

[JI7]

16. i would not be surprised if there are others who knew about this also

assuming the person who send the letter is really who they say they are i would say there may be a few others who know about this and probably agreed on sending it.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. ITA n/t

[mhatrw]

17. Excellent analysis until the sign off.

The rest of the letter is well crafted. It reads like a something a racist, sexist DU member and Sanders supporter might write.

But the sign off reeks of a set up.

GO BERNIE!!!

Mr. Citizen
DU Member

That's more likely the sign off of somebody trying to finger somebody else. That's not somebody trying to intimidate. That's somebody trying just a little too desperately and transparently to implicate. Would someone sincerely trying to intimidate have tried so hard to implicate? To what end? What purpose did the closing serve other than to implicate Sanders' DU supporters directly in a heinous crime?

Just in case you hadn't figured this out yet, I desperately need to make it crystal clear that I am definitely an asshole white male Sanders' zealot.



Take what I say with a grain of salt. It's just my admittedly biased opinion. But that is my personal take right now. Regardless, I stand 100% with bravenak and against this hate crime.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. This isn't directed at you

However - some of the most ardent persecution complex DUers who refuse to believe that this could have come from within -

Have in the past been adamant that alert stalking and swarming have occurred.

And well - We've seen - "Go Bernie!" right here at DU.

I do not believe for one minute that some person at a conservative focused forum sent this. They have their own problems figuring out which candidate they want to support. Seriously - they have 16/17 candidates to select from. They don't have time to try and intimidate some woman at the other end of the Internet who is never, ever going to vote Republican in a Primary.

And if they are reading this I say - Good luck, God bless, and may the best candidate win in November 2016. I may not agree with you on how we achieve American Excellence - but I commend you for giving a damn when so many do not.

To Democratics? May the best candidate rise to the top on Super Tuesday. In the meantime - I will not be intimidated into group think, I do not agree with the "overlords" language, and I do not wish to live in a country where every single person makes the exact same amount of money, home ownership is against the law, and the individual must be subjugated for the many. And if you think I pulled this out of my ass . . . Start doing DU searches on those key words.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. Heh.

To Democratics? May the best candidate rise to the top on Super Tuesday.

Given up on 'the best candidate' rising to the top in Vermont and New Hampshire?

[JustAnotherGen]

38. Yeah

I don't think it's a slam dunk. But I never counted on NH or Iowa to determine this election.

Keep in mind - my state votes at the very end. I have a vested interest in a long, drawn out primary if I want my vote to count.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

40. I really hate the way our primaries are set up.

(Well, that's a bit euphemistic, I don't 'hate' much of anything, it's a waste of energy.)

But it does irritate me that those two states always get to be first, that some people's votes 'don't count' because of the way things are spread out. I'd rather have some system that rotates which states vote first from cycle to cycle, or else simply a single national primary voting day, with every state voting on the same day, like they do in the general. Get in all of the debates before that day, then let everybody go at it at the same time.

[JustAnotherGen]

46. I love the idea of a national primary day.

Or several. Start in April, three rounds. Last person in each party standing could start the campaign in July. It works for France.

One national day would help muzzle the media and take out of big money donors.


The cycle is too long, riddled with King Makers, and only allows for a two party system.

[Agschmid]

99. Yup.

[betsuni]

23. Implicate Sanders' supporters in what heinous crime, though?

The author of the letter doesn't say anything (besides the addition of "fucking&quot that hasn't been said before, made no hate crime sort of threats, ended with "Go Bernie" which is not at all unusual. They didn't know that bravenak would publish it on DU and probably didn't think it would be such a big deal.

[mhatrw]

25. What did "they" expect would happen?

That the USA would just give up, like the guy who supposedly sent the anthrax letters expected?

[betsuni]

26. *backs away out of the room slowly, closes the door, runs away* nt

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Thank you

The C.T. Level stuff is not necessary.

[yardwork]

77. Yeah, this is getting really weird.

The level of defensiveness on the part of some Bernie supporters is over the top. Their attitude is actually exemplified by the poison pen letter. It's interesting that they can't see that.

[MADem]

106. +1. nt

[Number23]

92. I've said it once and I'll say it again...

You are hilarious.

[Starry Messenger]

21. Boston Bean makes a great point in a GD thread too.

Several things identical to what this letter says were posted here for days, and then no one disapproved very much from a certain sector. Why is it now suddenly considered bad now when it wasn't then?

Good breakdown Mr. Scorpio. I am in the camp that more than one person knew or was included in this scheme, and considers this an opinion that many others share.

[Cha]

111. My point, too, Starry.. They're in willful denial.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=25667

[JustAnotherGen]

22. See my post #18

The group think is strong at DU - and we have some huge hypocrites spouting off nonsense on this issue.

They don't like bravenak.
They resent bravenak having the audacity to have an opinion.
They are too self centered and selfish to care about anyone but themselves.
They can't take constructive criticism in regards to their conduct.
They can't accept critique on their (Not Senator Sanders - but his supporters - Sanders is a good guy) approach to outreach to minority communities - and I'm not just talking about race. That includes a lot of groups.
They are accusing other sites with a different approach to America of starting an internal war when said sites have got to deal with the Clown Car running them over.

The last one is why I'm certain it is from within. I've seeN posts referencing stuff that happened to other DUers. Having been admin and moderator at a site (focused on family issues) - we had a members posts sent to her husband. At the same time we had not one, not two, but three spin off sites and two were with the sole intent and purpose of "taking down" our site. One had infiltrators into our (private moderators board) -

One of the Moderators (former - a person who lived Internet drama) was the Who Who Did It.

Experience has taught me - this shit comes from within.

Read some of the threads/posts out in GD. The faux concern reeks of shit.

[mhatrw]

28. Much of this I agree with.

They don't like bravenak.
They resent bravenak having the audacity to have an opinion.
They are too self centered and selfish to care about anyone but themselves.
They can't take constructive criticism in regards to their conduct.
They can't accept critique on their (Not Senator Sanders - but his supporters - Sanders is a good guy) approach to outreach to minority communities - and I'm not just talking about race. That includes a lot of groups.

This is the part I am trying to work on.

But even if it came from within, that doesn't mean it definitely came from a heinous Sanders' supporter.

I admit I am biased about this. But so, it seems to me, is everyone else.

The anthrax letters got the Patriot Act fast tracked. The Killian documents got Dan Rather fired. Maybe cooler heads should prevail this time around, at least until some non-speculative evidence is unearthed?

[JustAnotherGen]

30. We aren't the Fed Gov

Comparing sending a pizza to an asswipe and the Patriot Act or the Killian Documents is no Bueno.

The DU has NO POWERS. I feel like Madea when her relative calls and asks her for money.

No one is going to lose their income over this.

And as far as I'm concerned - I AM the cooler head. My vision is quite clear on this.

[mhatrw]

39. Political dirty tricks happen on every level.

Sure, it's a stretch. But it happens. It has happened. Remember the girl who drew the B on her face backwards?

I can believe a Sanders' supporter did this, but if so, the individual was pathetically stupid. This individual got what he or she deserved: universal castigation, disgust, and derision. And this heinous action clearly hurt the Sanders campaign, at least on the DU level. What would have been the desired outcome? That bravenak shrink away and never return because some bully threatened her with alert stalking? I guess stupid is as stupid does, but that narrative doesn't seem inherently more believable than a dirty trick to me.

And there are parallels to the anthrax letter, however stretched. In the wake of 9/11, nobody stopped to question the idea that the anthrax came from Muslim terrorists, even though the letters were clearly a cartoon version of an actual terrorist act. In the wake of questionable alerting and bannings, nobody here is inclined to question the provenance of this letter, either.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. It didn't hurt the Sanders campaign at the DU level

It's helping his supporters to refine their case/arguments/ language.

HRC supporters have been targets of the alert stalking too. I served on a jury in a post in that group a few days ago. That post stayed (by LisaD for your reference) - but after I got the results?

Hide.
Hide.
Hide.

Not one of those posts was hide worthy.

And O'Malley supporters - we dodge it. My husband reads here a great deal - forget his user name. He chuckles a great deal at our O'M groups positivity. This had no impact on us because by and large what I see among my fellow O'M supporters is we are sick and tired of vitriol, one upping, and a lack of governance in politics. This stuff happens and all it does is make me shrug shoulders and go back to pushing for the candidate that I believe can beat every single of the Republican candidates in a debate.

[yardwork]

33. I don't think it is a troll, either.

MrScorpio demolished the troll arguments, I think.

The letter writer is a DUer. Maybe not somebody who posts often, but definitely a member here with a posting name, who has interacted with Bravenak.

They're probably angry to be compared with a troll. Their sense of privilege is such that they believe they have the right to speak for DU.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. I'll grant you Occam's Razor is on your side.

I would submit that the person writing this letter is a troll, whether or not they are a DU member or not, whether or not up until now anyone realized they were a troll. And you've certainly built a good circumstantial case that it's someone on DU. And I would agree that whoever it is HAS in all likelihood been on DU for a long time. But I've also seen the unravelling of another blog troll, who spent years setting up many scam accounts at Daily Kos, who contacted multiple site members offline, and who also targeted individual members for specific harassment, but whose ultimate goal was tearing apart the community, not just attacking the people he did. They were just part of the overall 'fun' of setting various members of the site at each others' throats and creating chaos and divisiveness. To be honest, I'm willing to bet he still has other troll accounts over there, even though he blew through a dozen or so after some pretty damn good detective work by some of those he attacked online outed the ones he was using to create sympathy and create a clique.

So does he support Bernie? Could be, lots of folks do. But with the other serious trolls I've run across on blogs over the years, they haven't really cared which side of any split they exploited. The meme running around is that 'Bernie and Bernie supporters have problems with minorities'. So being a Bernie supporter 'fits' his racism (and yes, I'd say he's racist) according to the suspicions that run around the site. If he truly is a generic troll, (and most of them are, which is why I say Occam's razor is on your side) then yeah, he's targeting Bravenak simply to target her, for the reasons you outlined. But the 'deep trolls' who invest lots of time aren't wasting it on single targets, they just use them to create further dissension and thus attack hundreds of people at once, to tear apart entire communities. I just don't think there's evidence to definitively suggest which sort of troll this is. But you do have the odds on your side.

[yardwork]

31. Very interesting and thoughtful.

Disclaimer: As a white person, I appreciate being allowed to post here and I recognize and respect that this is a protected group.

This is great analysis.

The part of your analysis that resonates most with me is the evidence of racial discomfort in that letter. Rage, I would call it. The writer is enraged that a black woman has dared to question his authority. That's the key to the whole thing.

My guess is that the writer - I agree with you that he is probably make and white (not another ethnicity) - walks around in a near-constant rage about "uppity" (he'll use ruder terms) black people, women, immigrants, and anybody else who challenges his fragile and embattled sense of superiority and privilege.

I think this person is older, at least in their 50s, probably 60s. Younger people don't send snail mail with formal signatures. The writer may live in Florida because they are retired.

I think that the timing of the letter might be because the writer may have been suspended or in temporary time-out on DU. Enraged that the same "punishment" was meted out to them, they went over the edge and lashed out through the mail to the main object of their anger. Again, the racial (and male) discomfort, expressing itself in rage - how dare DU punish them in the same way that Bravenak deserved.

I agree that this person is "supporting" Bernie, but mostly because they hate Hillary. In actual fact, this person is probably intrigued by Donald Trump and considering jumping ship to vote Trump. The canned statements about Bernie in the letter and the rah-rah at the end sound superficial. Yeah, this guy is resentful of the rich, but his more immediate resentments center around non-whites, women, and immigrants. He's mad about the uppity queers in the news too. How dare they? Etc.

Some retired military in GD detected a military tone to the letter. Bet you anything this guy loves his guns.

That's all I got.

[JustAnotherGen]

44. This post . . .

[yardwork]

54. Thank you so much!

[OneGrassRoot]

101. +1 :) n/t

[Squinch]

48. Agree on all points. And I would add

that though, as you say, "they walk around in near constant rage about black people, women and immigrants and anybody else who challenges his fragile and embattled sense of superiority and privilege," I think it's even money that he has no idea that he holds that rage.

I think it is absolutely possible that he would be furious if he heard that description applied to him, though the description is completely accurate. I think it is possible that he thinks his positions are well reasoned and rational, and he feels his anger stems only from the inability of others to see things "correctly."

[yardwork]

52. Thanks, and I agree.

And I wonder if, far from being pleased by the disruption the letter has caused on DU, the writer is now scared (and enraged, naturally) by the outpouring of support for Bravenak.

Not a troll. This person considers themselves to be a "good DUer."

[Bobbie Jo]

49. Good points

I think this person is older, at least in their 50s, probably 60s. Younger people don't send snail mail with formal signatures. The writer may live in Florida because they are retired.

I think that the timing of the letter might be because the writer may have been suspended or in temporary time-out on DU. Enraged that the same "punishment" was meted out to them, they went over the edge and lashed out through the mail to the main object of their anger. Again, the racial (and male) discomfort, expressing itself in rage - how dare DU punish them in the same way that Bravenak deserved.

There's no doubt in my mind that this person is a DU'er. The level of familiarity with the site along with bravenak's time out status is evidence that this person hangs out here...frequently.

This person is among us...

[yardwork]

50. My speculation about some triggering event is just speculation, though.

I don't mean to start a witch hunt. I think there was a triggering event, but it could have been as innocuous as a hidden post or something.

[Bobbie Jo]

57. Understood

Agree with the triggering event and use of snail mail.

At this point it's all just speculation, and we may never know who did this. The writer's words sound so very familiar, he captured the attitude perfectly.

Good post.

[mcar]

69. Intriguing point about

the guy moving to Trump. I too was particularly struck by the rage - using the tired old "race baiting" trope against a black female poster really supports your theories.

And, of course, bravenak's post were nothing of the sort. This white woman greatly appreciates her perspective.

[msrizzo]

88. Agree. There is rage there.

And the rage is probably personal which means that whether this person alert trolled Bravenak or not, they clearly did have interactions with her and more than likely she demolished their viewpoint or made them feel foolish, possibly she roundly debunked some assertion they made. I do believe the answers could be found in an analysis of her interactions, but I doubt the admins will do that. Doesn't seem like they really want to know what happened. They just want it to go away.

[yardwork]

89. You're right, this seems personal.

Somebody went to a lot of trouble to bother Bravenak, even though she's not able to post on DU. I think that the writer is furious that she is a strong black woman who speaks her mind.

[gollygee]

100. Very interesting.

good thoughts.

[kwassa]

115. Great analysis.

I like these two points.

I think this person is older, at least in their 50s, probably 60s. Younger people don't send snail mail with formal signatures. The writer may live in Florida because they are retired.

I think that the timing of the letter might be because the writer may have been suspended or in temporary time-out on DU. Enraged that the same "punishment" was meted out to them, they went over the edge and lashed out through the mail to the main object of their anger. Again, the racial (and male) discomfort, expressing itself in rage - how dare DU punish them in the same way that Bravenak deserved.

[mercuryblues]

35. I agree with the WE

The letter writer is part of a group that participated in what I call "tag team alerting" They take turns so the data will not show up as just one person doing the alerting. Duers know that, that data is looked at on a periodic basis by Skinner. It is not something that an outsider would necessarily be aware of. Trust me those in that group know who the sender is or has a pretty good idea on who would take it this far.

[mopinko]

41. about that postmark- easy to fake.

you can send a letter in another envelope, addressed to the postmaster. they will open the envelope, and deposit it in the outgoing mail.
not sure this person is smart enough to know that, but you can do it.

[Scuba]

42. K&R

[Lisa D]

56. Good analysis, Mr. Scorpio

You did a great job of breaking it down.

[JustAnotherGen]

61. Good to see you posting

After you were targeted this week.

[Lisa D]

79. Thank you for posting the jury results in that other thread.

As far as I know, that's the first time someone has alerted one of my posts.

[Bobbie Jo]

58. Interesting analysis, and nicely done.

Going to read it again...

[aikoaiko]

60. Whoever wrote the letter is despicable.

[JustAnotherGen]

66. Disrupt - the irony

He hates - HATES disruptors.

The word could quite possibly be the key.

[steve2470]

67. disruptors to we all supporting Bernie, which is BS

I really think the guy is a troll, but I could easily be wrong. Maybe a genuine Bernie supporter really is this unhinged. I'm biased, I know, I'm still a Bernie supporter, but this kind of BS only pushes me away from Bernie.

[JustAnotherGen]

74. Don't let it!

I want a robust primary - and authentic Democratic Sanders supporters will ensure the message of his campaign stays on point. Don't take it out on that man . . . He's a sweetheart.

[steve2470]

75. O'Malley is a good man also, I'd be cool with him as POTUS also

Last edited Mon Sep 14, 2015, 12:16 PM - Edit history (2)

Hillary is fine with me too. For whatever reason, mainly the media, O'Malley has not caught on yet. Maybe he will. He's been a Governor, which is a huge plus for him. Hillary has two big pluses: she's been Bill Clinton's wife so she's seen national politics up close and personal for many years, and she's been SoS, so she has foreign policy experience. But... she's NEVER been an administrator and neither has Bernie.

O'Malley has administrative experience. A GIGANTIC plus for him. For my own deeply personal reasons I don't get more involved in politics than this board and talking to my super-activist Democratic brother in real life, but again I'd be cool with O'Malley.

eta: I stand corrected, they all have admin. experience.

[steve2470]

76. check this out please

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251587208

[mcar]

68. Excellent analysis mrScorpio

[Person 2713]

70. Plus why would a RW troll be concerned with Sanders ( or DU) at this time when Trump

is surging in the polls saying all the things the RW wants to hear?
Not too many panicking about dems right now I would guess if anything they would be smirking liberal losers with a presidential win in their perceived grasp
Sanders vs Trump ? Black voters getting Hillary a win? Liberal Dems? BLM ? I don't see any of that being RW anger at the date of the mailing sorry .
Divide what on DU ? By racial lines ? Hillary vs Sanders ? Already internally done
The letter is not that different than posts here I've read. One I read just yesterday had that tone IMO

[boston bean]

72. I have to say that many who deny it is a DU Bernie supporter, have no qualms

in stating that they believe it false flag operation by a DU Bernie Supporter.

Namely- Bravenak, who they claim sent the letters to herself, from FL, and didn't know her own address, so she had to send a second with the correct one. (Really, WTF??)

DU Member - check
Bernie Supporter - check

They don't seem to get the disconnect, but hey when did that ever matter.

And I got to run. Good OP, all here, please take care!

[MuseRider]

73. Very thoughtful.

As one who thinks our best purpose is the continued support of Bravenak and let this get worked out by authorities you have made me think as have many of the posts above. While I don't care who it is really, I DO care that they not get away with this. Reading some of the posts it brought to mind someone I am close to because of relationships and I have had to deal with over the years. This is exactly how he reacts to me when I stand up for women. I have seen him react just like this about LGBT people and different racial groups over the years. He is a very fragile male who has been unsuccessful in just about every part of his life and is now getting old and facing a very hard and lonely old age. All of this is his fault from years of bad bad choices, but it is the fault of everyone else in his mind. The rest of us are somehow to blame, we just don't understand him and we should because he really knows stuff. Most of the time he is OK but when things get to a point he blows like this. I could see him saying this same kind of thing, in fact he has to me and my friends and has tried to punch me a couple of times over my thinking I know anything being a "girl" and having the audacity to speak.

The response to BLM here was disgraceful IMO. The response to Bravenak, who at first tried to carefully explain it to people, the general reaction was to close minds and bludgeon her without hearing her. All of this over support of a political candidate, unbelievable. Fuel to the fire.

[lunamagica]

81. Thank you Mr. Scorpio for this deep analysis

I agree with everything, except I'm not convinced it was written by a man.

[MrScorpio]

82. Let me know why

I want to hear your rationale.

[lunamagica]

84. I'll PM you. I hope that's safe But

let me tell you first that it's nothing a deep as what you wrote, it's more a gut feeling.

[JustAnotherGen]

86. I agree n/t

[scarletwoman]

124. I'm not convinced, either. My very first thought when I read it was that it was a woman. nt

[betsuni]

131. Me too. Can't say why. Just a feeling. nt

[betsuni]

146. Thinking about it, I can explain.

For cave dweller type guys, intelligent, funny, attractive women are kryptonite. A woman wouldn't be affected by the kryptonite.

[YoungDemCA]

83. K&R. Great OP

bravenak, you have my support.

[etherealtruth]

85. This is a great analysis, I agree with everything except the gender of the @$$-wipe

While I think misogyny is a problem here, i am not sure that this is it.

I know there is a group that really hates Bravenak, but i think there is a larger group that thinks Bravenak is extremely intelligent and very engaging. When she is not posting on very serious issues, she's also got that "adorable" vibe (by that i mean she is the kind of poster that you want to know in real life because in addition to intelligence she seems fun and funny).

Taking the @$$-wipe letter writer at their word they could very well be a Bernie supporter, but my feeling is that this about much more than candidate support. My guess would be that this is someone that has engaged with bravenak (come out on the losing side) and has been very resentful that she was outwitted and outdone by this smart savvy young black (I do think racism is a major part here) woman. I am gonna guess that the real issues here is that Bravenak has received support , accolades and affection the letter writer felt she deserved.

This could all still be true and it could be a male ... but my "gut" (which is no ore than a guess) goes with your description but a woman that feels entitled .... and under appreciated for what a "wonderful person/ poster" they perceive them self to be. i think it is personal and I think it is related , only in small part, to a particular candidate support (i m going to guess their resentment pre-dates the primaries)

[scarletwoman]

123. My "gut" says it's a woman, too. nt

[Hekate]

87. Brilliant forensic analysis.

You, with your analytic mind, are one of the few DUers I would like to meet IRL.

[R B Garr]

94. K&R. You nailed it.

This is outrageous.

[Skraxx]

96. I'll Tell You One Thing I'm Practically Certain of

That the letter writer is currently posting obnoxious, red herring conspiracy theory posts and/or supporting them. And that's based on nothing more than my observation of human nature.

[Cha]

118. He certainly showed off that bent in his letter to Bravenak.

[betsuni]

120. I'm thinking exactly the same thing. Sure of it. nt

[Agschmid]

97. Yup.

[awoke_in_2003]

102. To those who suggest this could be a false flag operation...

I ask "To what end?". A false flag op would be used to divide DU. This incident is drawing us together in support of another member.

[MrScorpio]

103. Make sure to point out to those people that the letters didn't have to be shown to us

Last edited Sat Sep 12, 2015, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

So, a "false flag" for what?

Bravenak could have not revealed the contents or the fact that she ever got it.

The writer knew this when he sent this when he sent them to her.

DU is already divided, the letter was the result of how things already are and only in terms of ourselves, not how someone else wants us to be.

[awoke_in_2003]

104. Yep...

and I rec'ed your excellent break down of the situation, and support Bravenak.

[mhatrw]

107. The letter could have come from an idiot DU Sanders supporter,

a cunning DU Clinton supporter, or even a non-DU shit stirrer who is laughing his ass off right now.

If you claim to know for sure, all you are doing is confirming your own confirmation bias.

And you are not doing this to support bravenak, but to denigrate the supporters of a candidate who threatens your favored candidate.

Even little kids know how to plant evidence to get their siblings in trouble. It's not a conspiracy to suggest that a fucked up stalker who has every reason to mask his or her true identity might in fact have done exactly that.

[MrScorpio]

109. Is that the point that you want to make?

Would you like to do your own breakdown of the letter?

I'll even point it out to Bravenak for you, if you'd like. We can see what she'll make of your assessment.

By the way, I don't have a favored candidate in the primary. I can't wait until this process is over, so I can vote for our nominee, whomever that will be.

[Spazito]

112. The letter could also come from a Bernie supporter who can't tolerate a strong, independent...

black woman who tells it like it is and so decided to stalk her by finding out her real name and address and actually write her a vile letter, that supporter could be a DUer. We have had a DUer physically threaten a homeless DUer and, guess what, that DUer is still a member here and a favorite of some members here.



,

[Cha]

114. Yes, Spazito.. MrScorpio brought out too many logical points about the letter wrtiter being a BS

supporter for anyone to say.. "who knowd it could have been a cunning Hillary Supporter".. they just don't want to believe it would be one of them.

"We have had a DUer physically threaten a homeless DUer and, guess what, that DUer is still a member here and a favorite of some members here."

Yeah, it's not the first time someone on DU has threatened others.

[JI7]

121. Hosts in this forum should check out this person's posts in here

you are accusing a black DU member of not caring about something that happened to another black member . both of who have been regulars posting on here .

you started the thread on 1 percent people by race which is BS and has been regularly discussed by members here.

now you are more concerned with how this will affect a primary candidate .

[Cha]

110. Brilliant, MrScorpio.. Thank you so much for deconstructing this with such detailed analysis.

"If anything, these sentences show how much the writer is invested in Bernie. To him, no true supporter of Sanders would EVER question his positions on any matter at all, much less anything about race and coming from a mere black woman. The fact that she did dare to question Bernie meant that she deserved to be harshly punished for it. He's demonstrating his sense of righteous indignation fulfilled, even somewhat insufficiently in his own opinion.

He's expressing his own raw sense of anger and righteous indignation. He also made sure to notify Bravenak that he was paying close attention to how she was treated for her apparent offense. This would imply that he had a direct role in alerting on her posts. He didn't admit it, but he has been monitoring her. Who other than a DUer would maintain such close accounting on the inner workings of the site?"

You and your fucking "I really like Bernie"
bullshit. So you got 4 hides in one day. You
deserved more

.

Yeah, Mr Citizen would have given her 10 Hides.. or More! that would teach her to state she "really likes Bernie.." Actually Brave was a BS supporter before #BlackLivesMatter Protested #Net Root Nation. Before, so many online BS supporters started hurling abusive insults, and throwing out ignorant CT on those #BLM activists, who had the audacity to protest and question Sanders. I saw the posts supporting Bernie.

Mr Citizen could have done a research on that except his "fragility" got in the way.. he'd rather call "bullshit" to make his stupid point of "how dare she!!!"

Of course, the writer of this letter who calls himself, "Mr Citizen" had been "monitoring" bravenak.. IOW stalking her and alerting on her posts that he deemed unfit for consumption regarding his "precious Bernie".

"If anything, these sentences show how much the writer is invested in Bernie. To him, no true supporter of Sanders would EVER question his positions on any matter at all, much less anything about race and coming from a mere black woman..

We've seen it time and time again on this board.. no one is allowed to question Bernie sanders on anything. That's the tenor of most of the board and that's definitely the threat in the letter.

And, sadly it's even less so for Bravenak, 1StrongBlackMan, and all the other important Black Voices on here who question their candidate.

[kwassa]

116. I'd bet that the writer of this letter could be identified with reasonable certainty.

I sure as hell don't have the time to do it, I barely have time to peek in here once a day ...

but what years here have taught me is that most people like this can't control themselves. As yardwork pointed out, this person is both probably older, using snail mail, and on time out. Big possible clues.

This person will have a record on DU of expressing views that are close to this extreme about both Bernie, and bravenak.

Very few have stated this:

We grew tired of your race baiting bullshit against the only candidate that cares about the plight of minorities and the 99%.

The only candidate that cares about the plight of minorities. This is delusional, and most Bernie supporters don't go there.

This person will probably be completely unable to change their writing style, or the types of phrases he uses. Doing some Google searches with phrases from the letter might be quite revealing, in tandem with these other factors.

The real place to look is with those that alerted on Bravenak. We don't have access to those names, but the administrators should be looking at them right now. If this writer was not on time out, I bet that he was a chief alert stalker.

[steve2470]

119. thanks for doing all that work, much appreciated

I agree with your conclusions.

[scarletwoman]

122. Thank you for your excellent analysis. I agree that it IS a Duer, but not that it's a male.

Like a couple other female posters in this thread, I don't agree that it's necessarily a male.

The very first time I saw the letter on the first day it was posted here, my immediate gut reaction was that it was written by a woman. I know that doesn't really count for much in terms of logic - still, being a woman myself, the vibe of the letter smacked of enraged female energy to me.

Who actually bothers to write personal letters to express their feelings? At the risk of sounding like an unpolitically correct non-feminist, I would say that it's the work of "a woman scorned" - and all that the stereotype implies. E.g. - fury.

This is someone who either engaged in direct arguments with bravenak, or else just read bravenak's posts while seething silently. And then rejoiced when bravenak got 5 hides - possibly due to alerts she herself sent - but then felt their satisfaction thwarted as other DUers expressed support for bravenak and dismay at her hides.

Women are quite capable of fighting in dirty, underhanded ways. Quite capable of doing the research needed to dig up a perceived enemy's address. Quite capable of fixating on a public figure and obsessively identifying with that figure - to the point where a perceived attack on that figure is taken as an attack on her own self.

In other words, I think it would be a mistake to assume that the letter writer could only be a male.

I think it's a woman. And I think it's a woman who totally freaked out over the first BLM confrontation with Sanders at NetRoots, then freaked out further over the BLM confrontation in Seattle - who felt personally attacked by BLM's use of "white supremacist". And bravenak's arguments in defense of BLM's actions got to be too much for this person, who brooded and brooded and nursed her anger and sense of victimisation until she finally hatched a plan...

[MrScorpio]

125. Everything about this hypothetical woman is not exclusive just to women…

Men are quite capable of being as underhanded, vindictive and angry as well.

[steve2470]

134. yes sir, so true nt

[scarletwoman]

148. Yes, that's true, of course.

I was attempting to give a rationale for my gut feeling - and I think I didn't do it very well. I probably ought to have simply said it was my gut feeling and left it at that.

Anyway, male or female, I hope the person is found out.

[MrScorpio]

149. Never give up your gut feelings

Most of the time they steer you in the right direction. That's how I do it.

But, I just don't depend on them for everything. I'm also an over thinker. If I can't explain in fine detail why I have that gut feeling, then sometimes I have to let it go.

[MrScorpio]

127. My, my… You're really smart

[steve2470]

130. If I said what I thought of your post, I'd get a hide

So, I won't. Good day.

[MrScorpio]

133. WE both know that you're not going to be with us for long…

So while you're here, please do me a favor and say hi to Frank for me, I'm sure he misses me.

Maybe he might take some time out of his busy, busy day, stroking his own ego in the Cave to write some more creepy fanfic about me.

We both know that he can't quit me.

[steve2470]

135. .....

[steve2470]

138. dude is a racist troll, see my OP nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

139. He's gone.

[steve2470]

140. awesome nt

[MrScorpio]

141. Absofuckinglutely

That's a classic example of how outside racist trolls truly operate. They don't send poison pen letters to members, in order to threaten their membership status.

[steve2470]

143. yes he was probably a caver , ugh nt

[MrScorpio]

144. I would be willing to bet some goats on that…

However, I'm quite sure that I'd have a hard time finding one that they haven't fucked already.

[steve2470]

145. lol! nt

[JustAnotherGen]

136. Group Host Blocked

Response to MrScorpio (Reply #127)Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:08 AM
LordStevens (5 posts)
128. She's been bullying everyone and making false accusations of racism for ages

She finally gets what she deserves - rightfully hidden posts - and she thinks she's the victim. She's not the only one with this victim mentality, everyone in the AA forum seems to have it. It's getting old.
Reply to this post
Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread Super powers



*********
Five Posts - too familiar.

[MrScorpio]

137. To paraphrase an old Klingon saying…

Group host blocking is a dish best served cold.

Bravo!

[JustAnotherGen]

142. I've sent it to a few MIRT members too

This is an intruder. He needs to go get right with God this Sunday morning.

[steve2470]

132. No comment, not worth the hide

Bye.

[Gothmog]

150. This is an amazing post and analysis

Thank you for the thought and care you put in writing this post. It was truly well done.

[DonCoquixote]

152. Devil's advocate

Now, first off, i pretty much agree with every syllable of this letter. You expressed most of my doubts better than I did. However, since we know there will be people who dislike your conclusions, allow me to be devil's advocate ion the original sense of the word, i.e. someone who knows the common rebuttals and who will give you a chance to knock them down

Devil's argument One: "It could be a fraud by some prankster or freeper."

Yes, it could indeed be someone who took time to learn a role to play it well. After all, if actors actresses learn French and fencing to play a role, this person could have learned the right things to say to play the part.

I am sure you have a good rebuttal for this, but I will offer mine:

"yes, it is obvious this person learned the right things to say, but just because the person has obviously done their research does not mean they are not bloody serious about the malice. Dylann Roof walked right into Emmanuel Baptist Church wearing the Rhodesian Flag he had talked about online as his self-appointed secret identity of "The Last Rhodesian." However, just because his research did not make him Rhodesian did not make him safe. Yeah, he was something right out of a bad Saturday Night Live skit, until people got killed."

Devil's argument Two: "No Bernie supporter would be so stupid, or so racist, as to send this, it's gotta be a prank or GOP op"

My rebuttal: The phrase "no true..whatever" is rightfully known as no true Scotsman, a classic fallacy that will get a student laughed out of Logic class. The fact is, even if what they do violates every bloody tenet of the person they claim to be working for, someone will do something. Religion shows this is in spades, with followers of all faiths violating every tenet about being less violent or not mistreating women and children. But we do not need to go there, as frankly every cause has people that do things that are contrary to the cause, on the ground of "we have to destroy the enemy." Yes, this should be something VERY clear every September 1th, something that outlasts all the plastic made in china flags.

Devil's argument Three: "do you know how many times there have been proven pranks!"
Yes, this is really one, but it is mixed with an appeal to authority so that if you do not concede this point, you are easily dismissed as someone who does not know this site, i.e. no authority. However, let's go ahead and concede that there truly IS a LOT of sabotage. One trip to Freeperville or Discussionist will indeed give you so much proof that yes, there is mischief, that no one will deny mischief, to say nothing of the fact the GOP has been caught paying operatives.

My rebuttal: All true, but none of this disproves affirmatively that it was a Bernie supporter that did this. There is nothing in that letter that would make "Mr. Citizen" not a Bernie supporter. Yes, he uses terms like "race-baiting" that I cannot imagine Mr. Sanders himself using, but that HAVE been used all over the internet is response to Seattle. If he was NOT a bernie supporter, and his job/desire was simply to rattle Bravenak, there was one cheap way to do it: use a racial slur. That is what many GOP do, especially the far right. This person was at least clever enough to make the point that Bernie speaks "for minorities" and does not do any of the classic symbols that are used to intimidate black people. So, if intimidation alone was the goal, he avoided the most obvious way to do it. I will also add that if it was a GOP op trying to simply turn Blacks and Bernie supporters on each other, then using a race slur would have made MORE sense. I am trying to say this as sensitive as possible, and I apologize if even after all the safety nets this still offends, but what would a GOP love less than the idea that Bernie supporters use THAT WORD that needs no repeating. You know that if Mr. Citizen used that word, Bravenak would be offered an interview on Fox News, because it would help sever the ties between AA's and Democrats that have kept them out of 1600 PA ave.

These are my humble points, but by all means, add ,more, as you have shown you can craft a wicked, solid set of logic.

[MrScorpio]

153. Pretty damn good

Nothing to add

Thanks

[DonCoquixote]

154. thank you

for setting this discussion in motion.