Madame Noire calls Charles Barkley out as a Liar!

[JustAnotherGen]

Someone suggested I make this an OP - so here goes. Madame Noire's response to the comments made by Charles Barkley this past weekend.



http://madamenoire.com/482890/lie-charles-barkley-told-black-people/

From my own personal experience (since it is okay for Barkley to offer his as fact), it is a rarity to come across a Black household in this country (hell in the entire Black Diaspora including the continent), which does not teach the value of education as a way “out” and “up.” And according to the numbers, Black women specifically are the most likely to enroll in college than all other ethnic and gender groups in the entire country. We are also the most likely to read a book. Likewise the idea that there are more Black men in prison than in college has been largely debunked and actually determined to be the other way around.

^Reference in this snippet^ http://www.npr.org/2013/04/23/178601467/are-there-really-more-black-men-in-prison-than-college
Are There Really More Black Men In Prison Than College?

Quote: MARTIN: Now, that's a powerful image, but is that really true? Something our next guest has taken a look at. Ivory Toldson is an associate professor at Howard University School of Education. He wrote about this for TheRoot.com, and he says...

IVORY TOLDSON: It's wrong. There are 1.4 million black men in college right now, and there are about 840,000 black men in prison.

Interesting - on education - since yesterday we had the good old 'beat up black people because they don't care about their childrens' education around here at DU. This is also in the Madame Noire rebuttal:

http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/apr08/vol65/num07/The-Myth-of-the-Culture-of-Poverty.aspx

MYTH: Poor parents are uninvolved in their children's learning, largely because they do not value education.

The Reality: Low-income parents hold the same attitudes about education that wealthy parents do (Compton-Lilly, 2003; Lareau & Horvat, 1999; Leichter, 1978). Low-income parents are less likely to attend school functions or volunteer in their children's classrooms (National Center for Education Statistics, 2005)—not because they care less about education, but because they have less access to school involvement than their wealthier peers. They are more likely to work multiple jobs, to work evenings, to have jobs without paid leave, and to be unable to afford child care and public transportation. It might be said more accurately that schools that fail to take these considerations into account do not value the involvement of poor families as much as they value the involvement of other families.

More from the Madame Noire article - which kind of points out what I was trying to say in my original response to the OP:

In fact, I hear more Black people being chastised by other Black people for sounding and being stereotypically Black and not possessing all the markers of successful and educated than I have ever seen over the smart Black kid. In fact, I don’t ever recall hearing a single joke or seeing a single meme on the internet about those with good jobs, grades and dictions. I’ve never recalled anyone making fun of doctors or lawyers or teachers even. It just does not happen.

However, I have seen memes and jokes about all the ghetto and ratchet Black folks though. And that includes: the thugs and welfare queens; those who can’t spell well; those who dress and look cheap; those with multiple children; those with missing teeth…Basically the lowly and down-trodden.

Again, I don’t deny that at times, Black folks give each other a hard time. But there’s also racism and the more detrimental and pervasive idea that Black people are inferior to White people. That belief system, right there, is the root of our angst, inequality, injustice and struggle in this country. What that means is that no amount of pulling the pants up and college degrees will shield us from the harsh realities of discrimination – I don’t care if you are a trash man, trying to be the first (or only one of a very few) Black supervisors at a waste management facility or the president of the United States trying to pass laws in the White House.

I just think Barkley is using 'all' when he should not be.

I'm not giving a guy who who excuses Zimmerman's behavior a free pass just because he's black.

If I think another black person is wrong or being a jackass - I have just as much a right to take jabs at that person - as Barkley did. If he can't stand the heat - then he should focus on his little orange ball. <---- That's the snobbish elitism Madame Noire was pointing out working right there.






Adding to this - I've noticed something kind of odd. When it's Tim Wise pointing out the obvious faults in the white community in America - we get lots of "well that's not me" and "not ALL white people" and not "all white people have privilege".

But when a black man (guy good with a little round ball) calls out black people -

Very few if any non black DU'ers pointed out that not ALL black people do this.

What I saw? Some serious concern about this issue.


Why doesn't white America want to fix itself before it points fingers at others?

[bravenak]

1. I find the 'black' speech issue to be an imaginary issue.

It is an excuse, a cudgel passed from hand to hand, year after year, a reminder that we are not acceptable. Today it's our speech and clothes, before it was our education. It is our violence, it is our lazyness. We talk too fast, too slow, too this, too that. It is always something.
I see it as the new Auction block, a judgement of value. Our nicely laid hair are our hemets, our nice linen suits are our armor, our education are our shields, our minds our weapons as we go out day to day and do battle in our American war. The war for acceptance. But can we house negroes be accepted without our field negroes? Because thats what we are, yet and still. The 'good' ones. Still doing the same old jobs we've done since we got here.
It is the same as on the plantation. They need to find problems with us to hide from their own problems. There is a sickness in our society.
The day we stop caring what they think will be the day they begin to lose the psychological grip of power over us and we can free ourselves from the mental challange of constantly feeling we have to explain ourselves like bad children.

I am breaking myself from giving two fucks about any kind of chastisment coming from people who do not have my type of worldview. I would like to live feee from oppression. Better to not let anyone get the chance.

I stopped listening to Charles after he got arrested buying a hooker.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Whooooaaaaaaa

Buying a hooker?

But aside from that - all that 'true nature and core character aside' (I'm judging youuuuuuuuuuuu Barkley) . . .


It is rather odd how the finish line of being acceptable to the dominant culture (basically white Americans) continues to change.

I wonder why that is?


And I've said something similar to my husband lately - if you aren't exactly like me - I have no use for you.

Sometimes it comes down to who I can relate to.

[bravenak]

3. Well, he never got a hooker to get INTO his car.

He was arrested for DUI while driving around looking for a hooker. He admitted it. Now, he judges innocent black folks with no criminal history or substance abuse problems? He sees THEM as poorly spoken and i suspect criminal. Not fair. I listen to him All The time, my husband watches every sports program in the universe, and I do not find Sir Charles to be well spoken at all. He uses too many ummm's and uhh's and stutters and does not enunciate. His diction leaves much to be desired. He should be the last one to talk, Shaq speaks better than he does most of the time.

The goal posts have moved so far now, it hurts everybody. Now their kids are becomming more like our kids, since so many refuse to fund schools. It's only a matter of time until we all get tired of old white dudes running the country and stop listening. I think my generation is going to start it. We are sort of a kiss my ass generation. I tie all this bullshit to conservative viewpoints.
Ben Carson does the same shit.

[JI7]

9. it seems to be one of those things people hear about more than actually see or experience

and in cases where it does happen it's usually some young people who clearly feel inferior due to their own lack of education/intelligence so they put others down.

but this same thing can happen among non blacks also. kids will tease those who are seen as doing well in school academically.

remember how Bush supporters always thought he was some great regular guy and his lack of intelligence was seen as a positive ?

as someone else said it's also one of those things white people love to make into an example of the problem with the black community just as they love pointing out blacks who criticize their own community.

strange that instead of seeing that as an example of call out white racists and other problems within their own communities they just want to point and lecture the other.

[bravenak]

10. They want us to have whipping boys and they want us to strike the blows.

They miss the plantation system with the black foreman beating unruly slaves. And some blacks miss being the foreman working under the overseer with the power over the rest of us and the status that is carries with the man. They want head pats and to be told they are one of the good ones. And they want the rest of us to point out the bad ones to make it easier.

And as far as speech i concerned. I have never heard actual proper 'English' spoken as standard practice in the everyday world. Criticisms of bad speech rarely apply to whites, and the young whites that speak poorly aren't being made the whipping boys of whats wrong with the white race. Meth addicts are not being called a sickness in white america, like they did with the crack 'epidemic'. Young white men shooting up rooms full of people are not call symptomatic of what is wrong with white america. I never hear 'white thug goes on rampage' after a deadly shooting where a young white male shoots 20 people for no reason. They get called mentally ill, even though young black men are more likely to suffer ptsd.

White America needs to start having this conversation.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. The George Bush thing is a good point

Liberal-Stalwart was pointing out the general dumbing down of America - I think Bush was a symptom of that.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. "Why doesn't white America want to fix itself before it points fingers at others? "

Simple.

White Privilege.

This is yet one more example of "those people need to fix their problems", all the while ignoring the problems within our own 'culture.' There is certainly some racism within the AA community (meaning directed at others within their own community), but this isn't at all surprising given how ingrained racism is in our general culture. Again, it is the dominant culture, white, determining what the rules are or should be. There is also an outright refusal on the part of many white people, including those who count themselves among liberals, and especially progressives, to the responsibility we, as white people, have to address the racism within our OWN community. When it comes to overt racism, white people will rant and rave, yet when it is more subtle, the response is not to listen to concerns of those affected, but rather to tell them "you are being too sensitive", "if you are looking for racism around every corner, you always find it", and "no, let me explain to you why such-n-such isn't racist." Of course, the right side of the equation just says "why are you playing the race card." The left is more nuanced and aren't as blatant by saying something like "race card."

It is very uncomfortable for white people to actually acknowledge racism, much less address it. This is similar to other groups that are also a minority. The dominant culture holds all the cards and feel it is their responsibility to set the narrative, and should a member outside of the dominant culture dare question or find offense in the narrative, we are told how "we are wrong."

Then there is the example that spawned all of this, G-d forbid a member of the minority speak out, affirming the dominant culture's view, suddenly, it becomes the "correct" narrative. Sure, there can be disagreement within a group, but said person now becomes the "spokesperson" for that group. It is similar to a person from the minority culture who acts "badly" and then s/he becomes the "example" of everything wrong with said group!

I know this wasn't the totality of your post, but your last question was important.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Thank you - and the pointing fingers does need to happen on behalf of

More groups. Example?

Know why I'm a supporter of same sex marriage? Aside from it being just a basic right?


I think we "hets" need to look at our multiple marriage and divorce rates before we tell people they aren't entitled to legally take care of the person they love in ALL ways. That means the higher earners social security benefits rolling to the lower earner upon death. Death benefits. Military spouse benefits. All of those things my mother gets.

It's the same thing - our faces aren't clean. Until we do right by "the other" and admit our collective assery -

We have no high ground.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Yet one more reason I adore you!

You are correct that the "fingers" need to point back to majority groups and their behaviors. I have always wondered how will my potential (now possible) marriage to my partner of almost 13 years effects any one else's life?! (That might happen this week!!!) Should this happen, the changes in OUR lives will be obvious...for one, the STATE will not be able to challenge our last whishes. Can you image the state coming in and challenging your loved one's will?!

White people don't think about racism very often; we don't have to do so. When it is presented, it becomes so uncomfortable, many retreat to their "safe zone", another perk of white privilege.

I found this on the web:

Becoming aware of privilege should not be viewed as a burden or a source of guilt, but rather, an opportunity to learn to be responsible so that we may work toward a more inclusive world!

[JustAnotherGen]

7. It won't -

It seriously (your potential marriage) will not have even the TINIEST impact on my life or anyone elses. We aren't going to just up and go out and get divorced because YOU got married!

And Congratulations! Welcome to the abusement park as my husband's mother told me! Two maladjusted misfits till death do you part!

[Behind the Aegis]

12. I was thinking about it.

My impending marriage (heehee) will have a slight effect on you (hopefully) because you will be one of the first people at DU I tell! My partner is not maladjusted, so I have that covered for us both; it's what makes us so perfect for one another. He balances my crazy. And, I keep his life interesting!

[Scuba]

8. Excellent post, thanks.