The Problem With That Catcalling Video

[MADem]

When I saw the video, this aspect of it jumped out at me, as well. I'm glad someone is mentioning it.

On Tuesday, Slate and everyone else posted a video of a woman who is harassed more than 100 times by men as she walks around New York City for 10 hours. More specifically, it’s a video of a young white woman who is harassed by mostly black and Latino men as she walks around New York City for 10 hours. The one dude who turns around and says, “Nice,” is white, but the guys who do the most egregious things—like the one who harangues her, “Somebody’s acknowledging you for being beautiful! You should say thank you more,” or the one who follows her down the street too closely for five whole minutes—are not.

This doesn’t mean that the video doesn’t still effectively make its point: that a woman can’t walk down the street lost in her own thoughts, that men feel totally free to demand her attention and get annoyed when she doesn’t respond, that a woman can’t be at ease in public spaces in the same way a man can. But the video also unintentionally makes another point: that harassers are mostly black and Latino, and hanging out on the streets in midday in clothes that suggest they are not on their lunch break. As Roxane Gay tweeted, “The racial politics of the video are fucked up. Like, she didn’t walk through any white neighborhoods?”

The video is a collaboration between Hollaback, an anti-street harassment organization, and the marketing agency Rob Bliss Creative. At the end they claim the woman experienced 100-plus incidents of harassment “involving people of all backgrounds.” Since that obviously doesn’t show up in the video, Bliss addressed it in a post. He wrote, “We got a fair amount of white guys, but for whatever reason, a lot of what they said was in passing, or off camera,” or was ruined by a siren or other noise. The final product, he writes, “is not a perfect representation of everything that happened.” That may be true but if you find yourself editing out all the catcalling white guys, maybe you should try another take.

This is not the first time Bliss has been called out for race blindness. In a video to promote Grand Rapids, Michigan, he was criticized for making a city that’s a third minority and a quarter poor look like it was filled with people who have “been reincarnated from those peppy family-style 1970s musical acts from Disney World or Knott’s Berry Farm,” as a local blogger wrote.

The whole article is worth a read, and there is a "better" video at the end of it all, courtesy of the Daily Show. Here is a direct link to that video in case you have trouble getting the embedded one to load:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/5ndnit/jessica-s-feminized-atmosphere

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/29/catcalling_video_hollaback_s_look_at_street_harassment_in_nyc_edited_out.html?utm_content=buffer7f572&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[marym625]

1. I hope you do better than my post on this yesterday did

Everyone should know this. It was one of the first things I noticed when I watched the video. Couldn't understand why there weren't more white guys.

K&R

[MADem]

2. It was the FIRST thing that jumped out at me.

I thought it ruined the point they were trying to make.

I agreed with the blogger who said "What, she didn't walk through any white neighborhoods?" and I didn't buy the "But-but NYC is SOOOOOO diverse" argument, either.

No footage around Wall Street -- plenty of white guys there!!!

I suppose being a "low talking" white guy has its benefits...?

At least they admitted their bias when called on it--but they shouldn't have put the film out so heavily edited. It overlays their outrage about a prejudice with another prejudice, and it does dilute the message (any white guy looking at that can say "It wasn't MEEEEE in that video...).

The video has subtitles, after all-- so what if a siren blocked the verbiage? So what if a guy is mumbling or low talking? That's the precise time when a subtitle comes in handy!

On edit--I went looking for your thread and gave it a K/R. We'll see if there's any wider visibility today. I didn't see it when you posted it, I did see another thread with a subthread "defending" the No White Guys thing, and I was a bit appalled.

This is the AA group so the "Nothing to see here" POV is less likely to surface.

[marym625]

4. Thank you!

I didn't mean to sound like I was asking for recs. But always appreciated!

I'm sorry, I guess it's too early. What's"POV"?

Yeah, this is despicable. I didn't see that thread defending it. Now I don't want to. Maybe later just to get my blood going because I know it will piss me off.

I need to pay better attention to what group something is in. I didn't even check were I was

Thanks again for posting this

[MADem]

12. POV-point of view.

Hey, no harm in bobbing the thing up over there in GD. I don't have a proprietary attitude towards spreading a little knowledge. A rising tide lifts all boats!

[marym625]

15. brain fart!

Point of view. DERP! Thanks!

And thanks again. I like that, a rising tide lifts all boats. Hadn't heard that before

[NYC_SKP]

6. So, it's worse than I thought.

At first I suspected that they carefully chose their path to put a white woman among "carefully selected" people along certain streets.

It's worse. It's a professional piece by a "marketing agency" that knows exactly wtf they are doing.

AND they edited it, knowingly, leaving out white men?

Fuck that shit, fucking professional racist shit.

Man, I'm sorry that this shit still happens.

Having lived many years in NYC, I should know better than to fall for it at all.

I was somewhat suspect, now I'm sure.

Bullshit.

[marym625]

8. Lots of us fell for it

Even when we questioned it in our thoughts.

But yeah. Fuck this bullshit

[Warpy]

26. White guys generally have better jobs

and can afford to sit down and eat lunch somewhere.

[marym625]

27. I really hope

That was sarcasm. If so, good one.

[daleanime]

3. Definitely a problem.....

[KurtNYC]

5. Who are these people who think NYC has "whites only" neighborhoods ?

And supposing for a moment that such neighborhoods did exist here, it would not negate the point of the video -- that women are harrassed merely walking down the street. Would the writers of this piece be fine with telling harrassed women 'don't walk in certain (imaginary) neighborhoods'?

They allege racism in the editing while 1) trying to eclipse the blatant display of sexism in the video with this counter-charge, and 2) grouping the individual cultures represented (Jamaican, Dominican, Senegalese, etc) by skin color, which, dare I say, seems racist.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Forget white neighborhoods; there isn't a single white guy in the video

Not that I saw anyway.

I haven't been down to the city in a few weeks. Are there any white guys left? That question is only slightly less ridiculous than the world suggested by that video.

[MADem]

11. Wall Street is pretty thick with white guys, especially around the lunch hour.

And there are enclaves in the city and boroughs that are more white than not.

No one is trying to "eclipse the sexism"--the point is that the sexist conduct of the WHITE guys was edited out. Thus, a white guy can look at this video and smugly say "See? See? It's not MY problem because I'm not one of ... THEM."

And since the people who made the film ADMIT that they didn't use the white guys they filmed in their final product because they talked too low or a siren went off or what-have-you, the racism isn't really alleged, it's acknowledged.

[gollygee]

13. You wouldn't have to go to a "whites only" neighborhood

Just a neighborhood with more white people than the neighborhoods they went to. It isn't like white men will only participate in street harassment when only other white people are around. They'll do it in a racially mixed neighborhood.

And it isn't an attempt to eclipse the sexism in the vido - which is real. But the video makes it look like white men aren't a part of this problem, and that isn't the case.

[MADem]

14. Exactly--like this NYC "white neighborhood."

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/10/cops_tell_black_kids_to_leave_park_slope_in_brooklyn_ny.html

Cops tell Black Kids to Leave Mostly White Neighborhood in NYC: Report

[KurtNYC]

16. It is only one video out of the hundreds that have been made, mostly by women.

Prior to this "10 hours" viral, one of the most viewed on YouTube was this one by Cards Against Harassment with 750,000 views:

I know from experience that many men perceived to be "white" in NYC behave in the same way that the men in the "10 Hours" video behaved. Hopefully some of them can learn something from the discussion that that video has started.

[MADem]

17. The concern, though, is that the poor editing by Bliss will have the opposite effect on white males.

They'll look at the video, come to the same conclusion that I, others, and of course SLATE came to, that there's an "underrepresentation" in the images, and say to themselves "Phew....that's not MY problem! Look at what 'sorts' do that kind of thing...but not MY ethnic group."

Sometimes, we need examples that look like US. Otherwise, there's a danger that a behavior will be stereotyped to one group or another.

[KurtNYC]

18. +1 "Sometimes, we need examples that look like us."

I see what you mean.

What I have read in other threads is that males who want to minimize this are picking apart the count, "100 catcalls," by disqualifying the lower end of the range. Others, of whatever gender, are trying to say this only happens in NYC or only in certain neighborhoods so I definitely agree that holding a mirror up to this kind of behavior is leading to all kinds of ducking and dodging.

I started a thread using 4 videos -- Minnesota, UK, Egypt and Brooklyn -- to try to get some people's heads around the idea that this much wider than what the Bliss video shows:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025739804

And one my DU true-isms, 'the first response to any OP is most likely to be someone who disagrees with you,' is supported there.

[MADem]

19. I like all the videos in your linked post.

The Egyptian one is right on the money--they are bold there. They are bold in other countries, too, but Egypt seems to have perfected the art of being street-scary, I'd say. It is a dangerous environment for a woman alone.

I also enjoyed the art project one.

As for that first reply you mentioned, I could not help but notice that there's that whole "You should be flattered" element mentioned. For some, it's almost a hard-wired attitude, that there should be gratitude for something not even sought.

You know, I think part of the problem with our society in this regard is that instances of a fellow "not wanting to take no for an answer" have been a staple in films for years. The romantic comedies often portray the earnest and dogged young man who "wins" the lovely damsel by sheer persistence. It's a life theme that older generations, parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, grew up with. This generation, though, they don't need someone they don't know yelling "compliments" at them to feel worthy or important or of value--it's a real sea change in attitude, a good thing, and well past due. Looking at some of those old, old movies that used to populate the Late Late Movie on network tv, before cable, you see it all the time! Hell, it was even the standard on TV commercials--see how easy it is to get the girl?

GAAAH! I've seen others as bad or worse, too!

[JI7]

23. they admitted they did not include the many white guys who did the same in the video

[gollygee]

9. The man who filmed and edited it is from Grand Rapids

which is local, and he apparently also made a movie about Grand Rapids where everyone was white, despite the city being 20% African American, with a reasonably sized Latino population as well. (Oh wait I see that's in your article.)

In the harassment film, he said he ran out of film or there was too much background noise when the harassers were white, but I really question the truth of that. They should have just gotten more film. And why did they start in a primarily African American area and run out of film by the time they got to areas with a higher percentage of white people? There's racism behind that choice as well.

Yes there is street harassment and it's good to point it out, but this specific film was IMO intentionally slanted. It does make it look like African American men are the problem, and in my experience the problem is equally shared among all races. In fact if my memory is right (I'm old enough now where this isn't an issue for me) white men had a higher sense of entitlement and pushed more - were less likely to just let it go if you didn't respond. Or maybe white men pushed more with me because I'm white? I don't know but the picture this film gave is inaccurate.

[MADem]

10. Any white guy looking at the video can say "It wasn't MEEEEEE..."

while he's sitting back smugly mocking the brothers and the mami-calling guys. That is the real disservice of the video. A missed opportunity!

[gollygee]

30. And if they found the only way to edit it was to edit out all the white men

they should have gotten more film and started up again another day. They shouldn't have released it as it is.

[Damansarajaya]

20. Yeah, well, some of the dudes were clearly harassing, and some were saying, "have a nice day."

Just because someone says something to you, it doesn't mean it's harassment.

Before the flames begin, I understand the point of the video: that a lot of women get a lot of attention that they don't want, that they are cajoled, cat-called and verbally sexually harassed.

We should work harder as a society to end that, I totally agree. Men have to speak up to other men to end this harassment, I agree.

But still not everything on the video was harassment.

[gollygee]

21. There's always an expectation of a response

If you don't respond, you get called out for it. That happened to her in the video. And if you DO respond, even with just "hello," it's taken as an invitation for more, and it can get really uncomfortable really quickly. It might not sound like harassment to you if you have no experience on the receiving end, but I assure you it's very often the opening to it.

[JI7]

22. looks like it was intended to get money, the black/brown guys after white woman would get more

than if it included white guys and wall street and other suit types.

[heaven05]

24. not diminishing sexual harassment

but this does make it seem that only black men and latinos are guilty. Why didn't they walk by a construction site, that would have been mostly white then we would see some balance.There isn't an attempt at balance here.

[MADem]

25. They edited out all the white guys.

They said it was because they were talking too low and the microphones didn't pick them up clearly, or a siren went off when they were talking...but really--cough-bull shit-cough, I say.

The whole film has subtitles, they could have subtitled the remarks. Instead, they edited out the white guys. They also said they ran out of film. I suppose they meant "memory" but they really should have planned that out better, shouldn't they have?

The end result is that a white guy looking at this video says to himself "Look at all THOSE PEOPLE acting like that! I don't see anyone who looks like MEEEEEE acting up, so people who look like MEEEE must not have a problem!"

[heaven05]

28. yep

exactly, succinctly put.

[Shankapotomus]

29. Long before this was news

The only two separate catcalling instances I can remember distinctly were both white guys. I called them both on their behavior and one, a co-worker and relative of a higher up, got annoyed. I left them with a shitload of work when I quit two weeks later. So yea, white guys do it as well.