Much ado about not much (Religion and Ritual Slaughter)

[cbayer]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2014/02/religion-and-ritual-slaughter

Feb 18th 2014, 14:35 by C.M. and B.C.



RELIGION (or perhaps the passionate, protective sense of identity that religions engender) has an extraordinary way of triggering disputes about matters that make no difference in the real world. Take the heated arguments that have broken out in Denmark, and far beyond, over this week's ban on the ritual slaughter of animals by Jewish or Muslim rules. Such slaughter is already banned in at least five European countries. There are no slaughterhouses which use the ritual method in Denmark, because there is not enough local demand to keep such a facility going; people who want to eat ritually slaughtered meat simply import the product, and they face no obstacle.

Yet Dan Jorgensen, Denmark's Food and Ariculture minister, finds himself in the middle of a storm. It's rather confusing for an affable politician who is more used to plaudits than brickbats. He has won praise for his previous animal-welfare initiatives, which include curbs on long-distance transport of livestock and a ban on docking piglets’ curly tails.

His latest initiative is the prohibition of animal slaughter without first rendering the beasts insensitive to pain with a bolt-gun or some other method. The move was welcomed by many Danes, who think that causing unnecessary suffering to animals on their journey from farm to dinner table is a throwback to darker times. But it provoked the ire of some of Denmark’s religious minorities which might now attempt to get the move reversed by the European Court for Human Rights.

As elsewhere in the world, Denmark’s Jews and Muslims frequently find themselves at odds. But on this matter, they are in step. Both feel that the law disregards their religious traditions which prescribe that beasts should be dispatched quickly (and, they say, virtually painlessly) with the slash of a blade to the throat. The ban on halal and kosher slaughtering also impinges on the similar practices of one of Denmark’s tiniest religious minorities, the Mandaens, an ancient Persian gnostic sect.

more at link

[AtheistCrusader]

1. They could, you know, do both I guess.

Captive bolt AND cut the throat.

Captive bolt physically disrupts the brain. I cannot imagine slashing the throat and hanging the animal is more pleasant than the bolt method. Slashing the throat does pretty much nothing to the central nervous system's ability to sense and perceive pain. Captive bolt directly knocks out the CNS entirely.

[cbayer]

3. You mean do them simultaneously?

I wonder if that is workable.

I've spent a little time around hunters, more around fishermen and even less on a farm.

While I find the slaughter difficult in all those circumstances, I felt like it was part of what one should experience if one were going to eat meat and fish.

And I will make the argument again that it seems pretty hypocritical to torture an animal it's entire life, as we clearly do, then get all concerned about it's last few moments.

Finally, the worst thing I ever saw was the castration of cows. I won't go into details here, but will say that you can hear the screaming for miles and for hours.

So I have difficulty getting worked up about what might be a few seconds or minutes of pain during the actual slaughter (which for many of these animals may be a relief after what their lives have been like).

[AtheistCrusader]

4. It would be a little bit of a juggle.

I'd hit them with the bolt first, pretend it's still alive (because it will still be moving involuntarily) and then cut the throat I guess. Heart will still pump it out.

I agree, as a meat eater, I want to be aware of, and involved in how the food gets to the plate. I avoid factory farm stuff for the reasons you mentioned.

[cbayer]

5. I have a very good friend who keeps kosher.

It is very important to him and I have enjoyed learning how to cook for him.

He is from Italy and also an awesome cook, so I have the extra added benefit of being able to learn from him.

Anyway, I have read about how they slaughter the animals and it seems no more or less humane that what they do in slaughter houses. And generally there is additional oversight, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

My experience with meat, poultry and chicken in mexico has been interesting. In the open markets there are basically whole skinned cows, pigs and coats. Some have pens of chicken that they kill daily and as needed. The fish brought in by the fishermen are often still very much alive when they clean and filet them for you.

It's a good thing to be closer to your food, I think, and the product is so much better in all ways.

[trotsky]

2. So cbayer, what do you think would be a good compromise in this situation?

The secular government of Denmark wants to minimize animal suffering during slaughter.

Certain members of certain religions don't.

Is compromise possible?

[Warren Stupidity]

6. I suspect that denial of the conflict is the

position here.

[trotsky]

7. I suspect you are correct.

As is the need to avoid having to admit holding the position that religion and religious beliefs don't have to compromise to get along with others. That everyone else must instead yield to them.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. In related news, elephants found to display compassion and caring.

Asian elephants console and reassure each other when they are distressed by touching and 'talking', according to a new study that suggests the animals are capable of empathy and reassurance.

The findings that these elephants comfort others using physical touches and vocalisations are the first empirical evidence of consolation in elephants, researchers said.

Consolation behaviour is rare in the animal kingdom, with empirical evidence previously provided only for the great apes, canines and certain corvids.

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/asian-elephants-console-others-in-distress-114021900956_1.html

But never mind that, obviously cows are just "dumb animals" so we shouldn't concern ourselves with their suffering, especially when idiotic and gruesome religious rituals are involved.

[trotsky]

9. I'm going to post this, but NOT watch it again.

Because it makes me cry every damn time.