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Why does the Abrahamic God of Jews, Christians and Muslims display emotional (Original Post) snagglepuss Feb 2012 OP
Because DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #1
does "jesus wept" count? unblock Feb 2012 #2
Yeah that would count but since only Christians believe snagglepuss Feb 2012 #3
I read once that Cane and Abel were twin gods dipsydoodle Feb 2012 #4
Sacred twins mythologies were pretty common worldwide. aquart Feb 2012 #25
Ther's actually a good book on this topic, written by a (former?) Jesuit priest dmallind Feb 2012 #5
Thanks for the recommedation. It sounds like something I'd find interesting. snagglepuss Feb 2012 #6
Well, I was informed on DU that those are 3 xchrom Feb 2012 #7
Well put it this way. Jews don't think that Allah and Yahweh are identical snagglepuss Feb 2012 #9
They're the same god. It's all the dude who came to talk to Abraham xchrom Feb 2012 #11
I am fairly certain that the God is never described as displaying snagglepuss Feb 2012 #12
3 different gods where? Huh? aquart Feb 2012 #17
I have no idea. This is a surprise to me. xchrom Feb 2012 #20
Christians believe that the God of Abraham became flesh and that snagglepuss Feb 2012 #21
Do Christians accept a different god than the god of Abraham? xchrom Feb 2012 #22
There is a Jewish tradition that God mourned for the Egyptians who drowned in Exodus... LeftishBrit Feb 2012 #8
Interesting that it is a tradition which suggests to me Jews needed to snagglepuss Feb 2012 #10
WHICH Jews, dear? aquart Feb 2012 #15
Yeah, it's in the Haggadah script. aquart Feb 2012 #16
Is the Pesach Haggadah the same as the Haggadah script? snagglepuss Feb 2012 #19
Yeah, that's the only time we use one. aquart Feb 2012 #27
how about genesis 6:6 (from the story of noah)? unblock Feb 2012 #13
Being sad and being sorry are two different things especially in this situation where God is snagglepuss Feb 2012 #23
how do you take "and it grieved him at his heart"? unblock Feb 2012 #24
Nice find. aquart Feb 2012 #28
"Abrahamic"???? aquart Feb 2012 #14
Common term. Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths snagglepuss Feb 2012 #18
Ummm... there's this little book called Hosea. Sal316 Feb 2012 #26

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
3. Yeah that would count but since only Christians believe
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 06:32 PM
Feb 2012

Jesus is God in the flesh how would Muslims and Jews account for the fact that the Abrahamic God displays anger and mercy but not sadness?

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
4. I read once that Cane and Abel were twin gods
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 06:38 PM
Feb 2012

One the punisher and the other sweetness and light. The latter died.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
5. Ther's actually a good book on this topic, written by a (former?) Jesuit priest
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 06:41 PM
Feb 2012

God - a Biography by Jack Miles. Quite an interesting read, that treats God through the lens of a deconstructed literary character.

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
7. Well, I was informed on DU that those are 3
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 07:02 PM
Feb 2012

Different gods.

Dietary differences & all that.

As a life long Christian - who regularly attended synagogue with his partner - this was news to me.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
9. Well put it this way. Jews don't think that Allah and Yahweh are identical
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 07:26 PM
Feb 2012

nor do they think Yahweh ever became man so in their minds Christians don't worship the same god.

Christians however believe that they do worship the same god as the Jews, however Christians don't believe Allah is the same as Yahweh/Father/Son/HolyGhost.

Muslims believe that Christians are mislead about the God of Abraham becoming man and claim that each worship the same god but they are the only ones who think that.


My question, regardless of whether each worships the same god, is why is the God of Abraham displays anger and mercy but never sadness? In other words why is God never described as sad that things didn't turn out as planned?

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
11. They're the same god. It's all the dude who came to talk to Abraham
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 07:50 PM
Feb 2012

In the wilderness.

Not one of the faiths would claim different.

Now about sadness - are you sure the are no passages in the bible, Torah, of Koran where god does not express sadness?

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
12. I am fairly certain that the God is never described as displaying
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 08:05 PM
Feb 2012

sadness in the Torah, OT or Koran. I'd be interested to know if I am mistaken.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
17. 3 different gods where? Huh?
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 08:21 PM
Feb 2012

Do you mean El, Yahweh, and that girly presence we don't like to talk about?

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
21. Christians believe that the God of Abraham became flesh and that
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 09:04 PM
Feb 2012

the Son sits at the right hand of the father. Does Judaism accept the Trinity? Has it ever accepted the idea that God became flesh?

LeftishBrit

(41,205 posts)
8. There is a Jewish tradition that God mourned for the Egyptians who drowned in Exodus...
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 07:20 PM
Feb 2012

even though he had caused them to drown, but they were still his children.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
10. Interesting that it is a tradition which suggests to me Jews needed to
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 07:38 PM
Feb 2012

attribute this particular feeling to God to compensate for the lack of God displaying sadness in the Torah.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
15. WHICH Jews, dear?
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 08:18 PM
Feb 2012

Or are we just one amorphous lump sharing a single brain and opinion? (Are there no Jews in your town?)

aquart

(69,014 posts)
27. Yeah, that's the only time we use one.
Tue Feb 28, 2012, 02:58 PM
Feb 2012

We needed a careful script to rewrite such an ancient feast.

unblock

(52,213 posts)
13. how about genesis 6:6 (from the story of noah)?
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 08:13 PM
Feb 2012

and it repented the lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.


i suppose you could argue that this is closer to regret than sadness, but for this purpose i think that's a distinction without a difference.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
23. Being sad and being sorry are two different things especially in this situation where God is
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 09:18 PM
Feb 2012

angry at man's wickedness and immediately states his intention destroy man.


Gen 6 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

unblock

(52,213 posts)
24. how do you take "and it grieved him at his heart"?
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 11:49 PM
Feb 2012

yeah, after this he quickly moves from sorrow to rage -- god clearly has anger management issues -- but at least for a moment he's expressing a sadness for what has come to pass.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
28. Nice find.
Tue Feb 28, 2012, 03:04 PM
Feb 2012

I would never think to wonder about God's emotions. To me God is an entity that exists all at once and that includes feelings. The best description of that I ever found was Thunder, Perfect Mind:



I was sent forth from the power,
and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
and I have been found among those who seek after me.
Look upon me, you who reflect upon me,
and you hearers, hear me.
You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
And do not banish me from your sight.
And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard!
Do not be ignorant of me.

For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
And he is my offspring in (due) time,
and my power is from him.
I am the staff of his power in his youth,
and he is the rod of my old age.
And whatever he wills happens to me.
I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.

Why, you who hate me, do you love me,
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me, confess me,
and you who confess me, deny me.
You who tell the truth about me, lie about me,
and you who have lied about me, tell the truth about me.
You who know me, be ignorant of me,
and those who have not known me, let them know me.

For I am knowledge and ignorance.
I am shame and boldness.
I am shameless; I am ashamed.
I am strength and I am fear.
I am war and peace.
Give heed to me.

I am the one who is disgraced and the great one.
Give heed to my poverty and my wealth.
Do not be arrogant to me when I am cast out upon the earth,
and you will find me in those that are to come.
And do not look upon me on the dung-heap
nor go and leave me cast out,
and you will find me in the kingdoms.
And do not look upon me when I am cast out among those who
are disgraced and in the least places,
nor laugh at me.
And do not cast me out among those who are slain in violence.

But I, I am compassionate and I am cruel.
Be on your guard!

Do not hate my obedience
and do not love my self-control.
In my weakness, do not forsake me,
and do not be afraid of my power.

For why do you despise my fear
and curse my pride?
But I am she who exists in all fears
and strength in trembling.
I am she who is weak,
and I am well in a pleasant place.
I am senseless and I am wise.

Why have you hated me in your counsels?
For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
and I shall appear and speak,

Why then have you hated me, you Greeks?
Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
For I am the wisdom of the Greeks
and the knowledge of the barbarians.
I am the judgement of the Greeks and of the barbarians.
I am the one whose image is great in Egypt
and the one who has no image among the barbarians.
I am the one who has been hated everywhere
and who has been loved everywhere.
I am the one whom they call Life,
and you have called Death.
I am the one whom they call Law,
and you have called Lawlessness.
I am the one whom you have pursued,
and I am the one whom you have seized.
I am the one whom you have scattered,
and you have gathered me together.
I am the one before whom you have been ashamed,
and you have been shameless to me.
I am she who does not keep festival,
and I am she whose festivals are many.

I, I am godless,
and I am the one whose God is great.
I am the one whom you have reflected upon,
and you have scorned me.
I am unlearned,
and they learn from me.
I am the one that you have despised,
and you reflect upon me.
I am the one whom you have hidden from,
and you appear to me.
But whenever you hide yourselves,
I myself will appear.
For whenever you appear,
I myself will hide from you.

Those who have [...] to it [...] senselessly [...].
Take me [... understanding] from grief.
and take me to yourselves from understanding and grief.
And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin,
and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.
Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly;
and out of shamelessness and shame,
upbraid my members in yourselves.
And come forward to me, you who know me
and you who know my members,
and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.
Come forward to childhood,
and do not despise it because it is small and it is little.
And do not turn away greatnesses in some parts from the smallnesses,
for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.

Why do you curse me and honor me?
You have wounded and you have had mercy.
Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have known.
And do not cast anyone out nor turn anyone away
[...] turn you away and [... know] him not.
[...].
What is mine [...].
I know the first ones and those after them know me.
But I am the mind of [...] and the rest of [...].
I am the knowledge of my inquiry,
and the finding of those who seek after me,
and the command of those who ask of me,
and the power of the powers in my knowledge
of the angels, who have been sent at my word,
and of gods in their seasons by my counsel,
and of spirits of every man who exists with me,
and of women who dwell within me.
I am the one who is honored, and who is praised,
and who is despised scornfully.
I am peace,
and war has come because of me.
And I am an alien and a citizen.

I am the substance and the one who has no substance.
Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me,
and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.
Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me,
and those who are far away from me are the ones who have known me.
On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me,
and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.

[I am ...] within.
[I am ...] of the natures.
I am [...] of the creation of the spirits.
[...] request of the souls.
I am control and the uncontrollable.
I am the union and the dissolution.
I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.
I am the one below,
and they come up to me.
I am the judgment and the acquittal.
I, I am sinless,
and the root of sin derives from me.
I am lust in (outward) appearance,
and interior self-control exists within me.
I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone
and the speech which cannot be grasped.
I am a mute who does not speak,
and great is my multitude of words.
Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
I am she who cries out,
and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.
I prepare the bread and my mind within.
I am the knowledge of my name.
I am the one who cries out,
and I listen.
I appear and [...] walk in [...] seal of my [...].
I am [...] the defense [...].
I am the one who is called Truth
and iniquity [...].

You honor me [...] and you whisper against me.
You who are vanquished, judge them (who vanquish you)
before they give judgment against you,
because the judge and partiality exist in you.
If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you?
Or, if you are acquitted by him, who will be able to detain you?
For what is inside of you is what is outside of you,
and the one who fashions you on the outside
is the one who shaped the inside of you.
And what you see outside of you, you see inside of you;
it is visible and it is your garment.
Hear me, you hearers
and learn of my words, you who know me.
I am the hearing that is attainable to everything;
I am the speech that cannot be grasped.
I am the name of the sound
and the sound of the name.
I am the sign of the letter
and the designation of the division.
And I [...].
(3 lines missing)
[...] light [...].
[...] hearers [...] to you
[...] the great power.
And [...] will not move the name.
[...] to the one who created me.
And I will speak his name.

Look then at his words
and all the writings which have been completed.
Give heed then, you hearers
and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.
For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting place.
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.


Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
18. Common term. Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths
Mon Feb 27, 2012, 08:28 PM
Feb 2012

Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified

wiki

Sal316

(3,373 posts)
26. Ummm... there's this little book called Hosea.
Tue Feb 28, 2012, 10:24 AM
Feb 2012

Then there's the flood narrative in Genesis 6:6

So the LORD was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart.


Jeremiah, the prophet, speaking the words of God and vocalizes God's grief, in Jer 8.

Just a couple.

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