Opposing the Jesus Meme

[Manifestor_of_Light]

I'm sick of it myself. I didn't write this, someone else, Dr. Daniel Finke, did.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2014/02/opposing-the-jesus-meme/


What I really, at the core, oppose is Jesus the avatar of the Christian church. I oppose the meme of Jesus and the way that through it so many people, including liberals and some atheists, are held back mentally and emotionally from thinking for themselves in the most honest and productive ways possible.

I oppose the mind-rotting prejudice that Jesus must always be right. When I am talking to otherwise clever and curious people and the subject turns to Jesus and they start gushing his praises and distorting reality to fit the received narrative of his wonderfulness, I watch the termination of thinking in otherwise critical minds happen before my very eyes. I feel my worthwhile conversation partner slipping away. I see two millennia worth of Christian constraint on thinking perpetuate itself. Whether from conservatives or liberals or pro-Jesus atheists, nearly everyone on Team Jesus becomes a PR rep when the conversation goes Jesus. It’s all whitewashing banalities. It’s all proxy for church power.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. "Jesus the avatar" indeed

Everyone's seen pretty much the same picture of a guy that no one photographed, painted, described (physically) ... of someone who may never have existed.

Yet we see the pictures.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. And he's usually a white guy.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

16. Ziggy Marley was asked about that.

On last week's Real Time with Bill Maher, Ziggy was asked by Bill why Rastafarians worship Emperor Haile Selassie, of Ethiopia, who was called The Conquering Lion of Judah. Ziggy said it was partially to counteract the blond, blue-eyed Jesus so I guess it was a cultural rejection of colonialism & destruction of native culture through European Christianity.

[cbayer]

2. It's a bit hard to follow, imo, but I'm glad he has developed his own belief system

and is comfortable with it. There is a Jesus conference held every year. He would probably really enjoy that, if he does not already attend.

The problem, of course, occurs when he wants to foist his personal beliefs on others and tells people to stop doing it this way and start doing it that way.

It feels oh so familiar and so much like proselytizing.

[intaglio]

3. Errr - Avatar

1. a manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher.

Jesus was, by definition, an avatar and the acceptance of him as such is the foundation of the Christian Church. Now, not applying critical thinking to this foundational principle, that is definitely objectionable.

[struggle4progress]

4. Even when stripped of all metaphysical claims, the following Jesus remains:

a baby born in a filthy manger, a "bastard" raised by a man who is not his father, a refugee child fleeing his homeland to escape a murderous king, a homeless wanderer, a man who frequently associates with "the wrong people," a person willing to stop a mob from lynching an unhappy woman, an outcast tortured to death by the state as a criminal on demand from the religious establishment ...

You are certainly free to regard this as an offense and a scandal, though (to my view) you would do better to take from the tales what you can and pass over the rest in silence, for as Schweitzer said correctly over a century ago, The names in which men expressed their recognition of Him .. Messiah, Son of Man, Son of God, have become for us historical parables. We can find no designation which expresses what He is for us

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. But many of those are just rumours about him

"a baby born in a filthy manger" - only in Luke
"a "bastard" raised by a man who is not his father" - only in Matthew and Luke - Mark never mentions his father, and John just says his father was Joseph - neither claim a 'virgin birth', or that he was raised by a man who was not his father
"a refugee child fleeing his homeland to escape a murderous king" - only in Matthew

Those stories seem pretty clearly made up to 'fulfill the prophecies'. The Matthew and Luke nativity stories cannot both be true, because they happen about 10 years apart, from known chronology. This illustrates the problem with basing everything on "what would Jesus do?" - what bits of the stories are made up, and what actually happened? As well as the metaphysical claims, that goes for the parables and wisdom too - should they just be ranked with Aesop's Fables, the writings of various philosophers, and so on?

[struggle4progress]

19. It seems to me that Jesus would remain even if the entire story were fiction

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Excellent essay.

It’s all this lying. It’s all this undue power to this ever-morphing meme. The meme of the specialness of Jesus is a roadblock to having conversations that can start and end as free inquiries. When Jesus comes up we have to take the long way around to get people to accept ideas that without him should take no work. And for many people, convinced by the rotten parts of Jesus (some really in the Gospel texts, some just part of the traditional Jesus who has a cultural life of his own just as much as the kinder gentler Jesus does) there just is no getting around the road block. Their minds are closed because of the Jesus meme. This is a feature, not a bug of the Jesus meme. It is a mental virus that affects minds like cult leaders do. This is why rationalists should range themselves against it if they care about everyone’s genuine ability to think for themselves. Smart people shouldn’t be wasting their energies finding cleverer paths around the road blocks. They should be laying intellectual dynamite.

Couldn't agree more.

[okasha]

7. Just another way

of calling people he disagrees with "intellectually dishonest" and "thoughtless."

[hrmjustin]

8. Not my cup of tea.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. So you don't think Jesus is the Messiah, son of God, and you are an Episcopalian?

[hrmjustin]

10. I assume you meant me so yes I believe he is the messiah.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

11. Oh, OK.

[hrmjustin]

12. ok.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. So you are against the OP?

[hrmjustin]

14. Personally I meant the thing you linked to.

I always value your opinion. We may not agree but you always are up for a good debate.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

15. Yes, that is what I meant.

I do agree that the holding up of Jesus as a perfect person as a role model is unhealthy and harmful, because nobody is perfect. If he is considered to be perfect and "you should act like him", then you are always going to fail. And people will feel shameful and guilty because that is an impossible standard.

Read John Bradshaw, Ph.D., "Healing the Shame that Binds You" which talks about the various forms of compulsive behavior that people adopt to cover up their toxic shame over church, parents and society telling them they are not good enough unless they do certain things that authority figures want them to do. Like "You're not supposed to question what God wants or what I tell you to do."

So many people never get any positive reinforcement for their existence, or told that they are a source of joy for their parents. Their parents believe that the child's will must be broken or he will forever be doomed to Hell. Disobedience in the slightest is a huge sin in some peoples' eyes. John Bradshaw was a Jesuit priest for several years and got his justification by being a people-pleasing nice guy and an authority figure, when he had serious questions about his faith. He left the priesthood and went into psychotherapy.

I am not talking about the question of whether or not he is the Messiah. That's theology.

I'm talking about the harmful psychological effects that that could have on a young person, who might be so depressed they would think, "Why don't I just kill myself if I can never live up to the standards that my minister and elders have set up for me? It's hopeless. I don't pray as much as they want me to, I don't do this, I don't do that and I let them down." And the same thing can happen to older people who believe it and are depressed as well.

That is an extreme case but I hope you understand how that can be quite harmful and drive people over the edge.

I am quite familiar with the difference between liberal Christians (I was raised in a casually Presbyterian family) and fundamentalist evangelical Christians.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. I think the author is stating the tiptoeing around criticism of religion, by a different means.

What he means by "intellectual dynamite" I have no idea.