If prayer plays a role in your life, how does it do so?

[Htom Sirveaux]

Last edited Thu May 22, 2014, 07:58 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm someone who does not expect God to act on prayers like a waiter at a restaurant taking orders. If you feel the same way, but still pray, what does praying mean to you, and how do you go about it?
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If you do think that one or more divinities act on specific prayers, what grounds that belief for you?

[demosincebirth]

1. My mother, God bless her soul, told me years ago that God answers all prayers. Many times

He says no.

[TexasProgresive]

2. “I would never want any prayer that would not make the virtues grow within me.” St. Teresa of Avila

There are many ways to pray here are a few:
Intercessory, asking for self or others.
Reflective.
Meditative.
Sacrificial, the offering of ones life, with all its joys, sufferings and even mundaneness.
Contemplative which is best as described in this Psalm:

A song of ascents. Of David.

LORD, my heart is not proud;

nor are my eyes haughty.

I do not busy myself with great matters,

with things too sublime for me.

Rather, I have stilled my soul,

Like a weaned child to its mother,

weaned is my soul.

Israel, hope in the LORD,

now and forever.

Psalm 131

[trotsky]

3. I've always been fond of the saying...

"Hands that help are far better than lips that pray."

[struggle4progress]

5. And I've always liked the saying

Hands that help are far better than lips that say "Hands that help are far better than lips that pray"

And I've always liked the saying

Hands that help are far better than lips that say "Hands that help are far better than lips that say 'Hands that help are far better than lips that pray'"

even more!

But there's another saying I like even better than that one! Can you guess what it is?

[trotsky]

6. Aw, sorry I struck a nerve, s4p.

You take care!

[struggle4progress]

7. Just tryin t'move th'conversation forward, y'know

[Htom Sirveaux]

100. Why not both at the same time? nt

[struggle4progress]

4. The prayer called the Lord's prayer is a good basis for communitarian meditations:

on this broken world that falls so short of our hopes, on our obligation not to lose hope that the world can change and be changed and that we can change and be changed with it, on the pressing reality of everyone's daily human needs, on the fact that we are indebted to other people and should remember our own indebtedness whenever we think about how much various other people seem to owe us, and on how easily (for whatever reason) we act in ways that differ from our professed ideals

[hrmjustin]

8. I pray for strength for the most part.

I personally don't think that God decideds things here on Earth. I do think God gives us strength and I pray for that. I

That does not mean I I don't pray for help at times.


I sometimes pray the office in the Episcopal Church's Book of Common Prayer. That is the prayers of the hours.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. I am constantly told by some friends that they are 'praying for me' to find god.

Which feels, to me, like an attempt to guilt-trip me into something, so their effort isn't wasted.
If it was just between them and their god, and their god could change something in me, they wouldn't feel compelled to tell me about their prayer 'efforts', then, would they? I think on some fundamental level, the fact they inform me of it reveals that they know it doesn't do a darn thing to pray.


So, that's the extent of the role it plays in my life. People telling me they are praying 'for me'. A couple of them border uncomfortably on suggesting they pray for economic conditions, like job loss, to bring me low, so that I have to ask for help/be humble/lose my confidence.... but that's just an impression I get.

[cbayer]

10. Wait. Are you saying that people pray for you to lose your job

so that you will find Jesus?

I must once again question exactly where it is you find these people in that bastion of liberalness where you live.

I have never, ever heard anything like this before. Not even in the deepest regions of the bible belt.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. They don't say it in so many words, but several of them have expressed the idea that my life

is too 'easy', that I haven't found god because I've never faced hardship. That someday I will, when I encounter adversity. Then they tell me they are praying for me to find god. Which, read between the lines, means they are essentially praying for some hellacious calamity in my life, that will lead me to doubt myself or whatever, and seek god.

Which is bullshit, they just don't know the adversity I have faced, because I don't advertise it, and I don't correct them with details when they express that.

[cbayer]

13. Lol, seriously?

You need some new friends. These people are seriously messed up.

Maybe you should share your adversities with them.. That would seem the logical way to address this.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Fair point.

I tend to internalize and play cards close to the chest when I run into problems. A very 'deal with it myself' attitude.

To a degree, they are 'outsiders' enough (not living in my home, for example) that they don't see some of the shit I deal with, and therefore I must lead an inexplicably charmed life, to some degree, from their viewpoint.

My assumption has always been that, since everyone who knows me knows that I am an atheist, leading a normal/decent life would be demonstration enough that 'people like me' are just fine and dandy without faith, but perhaps they need to see how I deal with death, or hardship, to understand me a little deeper.


Interesting point. As far as 'new friends', not so easy. And I don't attribute malice to them for it, I just don't think they understand what they are essentially asking for. Their goal of helping me find their god overrides 'means'. What they themselves are saying doesn't compute for them either, so they ignore it.

[cbayer]

20. Well, it seems that you would have lots of opportunities to mingle

with people that were not so extreme, considering where you live.

You really are not describing your run of the mill believer.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Which is odd because I live in King County, WA, the bluest county in the PacNW.

Tends to be very progressive. But I live in the rural east half of it. Not so far from that catholic school that fired the gay principal not to long ago, and the kids were demonstrating.

There are a TON of 'mega churches' on that plateau. Over here, things are... very religious. They also want to split the county down the middle around Bellevue into King and Cascadia. It would give them more political control over the area, because then Cascadia would be solid red.

So, I would say 'run of the mill' locally, but perhaps not overall.

[cbayer]

25. IIRC, a large part of the student body and parents at that school protested

that decision, didn't they?

Sorry that you are surrounded by people with such an extreme need to try and save you and hope you are able to find a better environment.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. I believe so. I saw a lot of people holding signs and such.

It's on the back route to my house, when I don't take the freeway. The sharp/twisties are super fun on the motorcycle.

[trotsky]

22. "You really are not describing your run of the mill believer."

Actually, in many areas of the country, he is.

[Rob H.]

57. That's how a lot of 'em are down here in the Bible Belt

I've seen plenty of them in my 20+ years here. It's not as bad as it used to be, when people used to consider "So, what church do you go to?" to be something to ask on first meeting you (as if where--or even if--you attend church is any of their business), but those believers are still out there, too.

[trotsky]

58. Yep, I've met them too.

But whatever, our experiences don't mean anything.

[trotsky]

19. People like that really do exist, cbayer.

Even though you've never gotten a chance to meet one, and thus disbelieve those of us who have.

You regularly chide others for making conclusions based only on their own experience, noting that you have had difference experiences. Why don't you take this advice to heart?

[AtheistCrusader]

23. I know a LOT of them.

And most of them don't know each other do it, I think. Apparently this effort to bring me to the light is more 1:1, not a concerted group effort.

[trotsky]

24. It just frustrates me when some people just slap on the blinders, and are CONVINCED...

that believers like that don't exist, simply because they've never met any.

Even going to the point to insinuate that you must be lying when you're describing them.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. It's actually a tenet of their faith to go out and prosletyize.

I don't know why it would confuse or surprise anyone that they do this.

The line between witnessing and proselytism is super blurry, and different sects of Christianity don't all agree on how to handle it.
http://christian-bible.com/Worship/Sermons/proselytize.htm

[hrmjustin]

11. If friends are praying for you to loose your job then get new friends.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. I'm not entirely sure they understand the logical outcome of what they are saying.

[hrmjustin]

15. Seems rather crappy on their part.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. At my son's birthday party, one of them passed me a note through her husband.

Sort of a card in an envelope. Basically the note said that they were praying for me to find god, and it had a little mustard seed taped in it. Which I presume to be a reference to Matthew 17:20.

That was awkward. Dude didn't even know why his wife was sending me notes.


aaaaawkward.

[hrmjustin]

30. Sorry that happened to you. Most of us know that behavior like that is unacceptable.

[Act_of_Reparation]

61. Who is "us"? n/t

[hrmjustin]

62. Believers.

[Act_of_Reparation]

67. I understand *you* don't think it acceptable behavior...

...and it probably isn't acceptable within your denomination. Having been raised outside NYC myself, I would also say that most people in your geographic area wouldn't think that is acceptable behavior, either.

But there are parts of this country where people wouldn't think twice about doing what that person did to AtheistCrusader. Hell, in my relatively new place of residence, in Mid-Michigan, a public school administrator handed out Chick Tracts to elementary school kids without batting an eye.

Whenever an atheist speaks up about some similar experience, everyone acts like they're surprised and flippantly assures them "most people aren't like that". People need to realize the crazies, the rude, and the atheist-haters aren't an insignificant percentage of the population, that these people are at least plentiful enough to make living openly as an atheist an untenable proposition in many parts of this exceedingly large country of ours.

In many places, you guys aren't the norm.

[hrmjustin]

68. I thought about it and in some areas I think you are right.

Of course in some areas of this world they just kill you for not agreeing with the state religion or lack of it.

[cbayer]

16. Well, you know how those bible thumpers are.

Just a few beers short of a 6 pack.

[Htom Sirveaux]

101. That's the problem I have with morality motivated by heaven or hell.

Anything can be justified in the name of infinite good, including hoping for increased suffering on earth for the sake of heaven.

[randys1]

27. A medical person who I respect once told me a study showed prayer helped with healing

Now I am pretty sure the study didnt mean to imply that there was a god let alone one who healed, but that the group positive thinking process that prayer can involve (not always, for instance most of what the pat robertson's of the world pray for is not positive) did have a positive effect that can be measured.

I didnt believe it but I think I do now...

There is no god of course, but our ability to group think positive can help.

And I promised not to post in religion anymore, I keep forgetting to look at what forum I am in...I will look from now on

[cbayer]

29. Actually there are also studies that show that prayer led to a worse outcome.

But these studies have so many variables that are not controlled that they end up being pretty meaningless.

Are you sure there is no god? You say it so definitively, like you know or something.

[randys1]

32. I know that there is the exact same amount of evidence for leprechauns as there is for god

[cbayer]

33. So what? Most of the world doesn't believe in leprechauns.

Again, I ask you, do you know or do you just have belief based on faith?

[randys1]

34. It is a ridiculous question, how do I know something that has no evidence AT ALL

for existing, not a single shred, how do I know it doesnt?

If you dont understand that you are the one who needs evidence, not me, then I cant help you

[cbayer]

35. I don't need evidence.

I don't know if a god or gods exist and I don't really care and I certainly don't need help.

You, on the other hand, seem to care a great deal.

[randys1]

36. Now you are being silly

What I care about is the horrific harm all religions have created for humankind...

Yes, there are decent individual people who are also religious, but religion in general is harmful more than helpful.

So yes, if you want to accuse me of caring about the harm done by righTwting xtians like Falwell or Robertson or the tens of millions of idiots who follow their sick and hateful ideology, then I am guilty as charged.

[cbayer]

39. Do you care about all the good things religious people and groups have done,

or do you just care about the bad things?

Do you have any evidence that religion in general is more harmful than helpful? Do you have any evidence that secular causes and groups have been any less harmful?

Or is this just about your beliefs?

You and I probably agree 100% about what harm the religious right has done. What we don't agree on is the lumping together of all religious people into that group without taking the time or energy to be clear that we are talking about a particular sub-section (which do not number in the 10's of millions, fwiw).

Well, that would be kind of like assuming that all atheists shared Christopher Hitchen's views on US aggression in the middle east, wouldn't it?

[phil89]

41. You don't seem to get

That atheism has no dogma or tenets, Unlike religion. Views on anything other than lack of belief in a god have nothing to do with atheism. So no, your point is not valid.

[cbayer]

44. No, I do get that.

But what you are stating is not atheism. You are stating a definitive belief that there is no god. That may require dogma and tenets.

So, perhaps yours is the invalid point.

[trotsky]

49. No, cbayer, you don't.

First off, you're replying to someone else.

Second, the "strong atheist" position of claiming to know there are no gods STILL doesn't require "dogma" or "tenets."

[phil89]

85. I have never, ever stated a definitive belief

that there is no god. Only that there is not sufficient evidence. You are either being obtuse or are mistaken.

[cbayer]

95. I am mistaken, but not obtuse.

You came in in the middle of a subthread and I thought I was responding to someone else.

Sorry.

[randys1]

45. Lumping, you see the problem with that is....

While I know many good and loving xtians (only known one real xtian in my entire life, he was a monk, everybody else including myself fell short) and I know of many good things done by many religions, all of those things could be done without the need of a brainwashed community group think and would be done.

As far as tens of millions, I can assure you that there are tens of millions of rightwing xtians in America, if I have to get the stats out to prove it I will but my guess would be about 30 million adults who identify as republican or independent (the crybaby way of saying you are a republican) and are Christian.

Probably more, and that the vast majority of them hate Gays, hate Obama, have a real hard time with most minorities etc

Wouldnt you agree?

[cbayer]

47. Brainwashed? Again, you are making broad brush negative assumptions

about large swaths of humanity that you admittedly don't even know.

Of course, good things can be done without religion. That doesn't mean that good things aren't done with religion.

Being a republican or independent and christian does not equal being a right wing christian fundamentalist. That is just another broad and incorrect assumption.

The vast majority of christians in this country do not hate gays or Obama. You really need to take a look at the demographics before you continue to make these kinds of statements.

And while you are at it, check this out:
http://notalllikethat.org

It was developed just for people like you!

[randys1]

50. there are tens of millions who fit in the category i have talked about

we both know it

more harm than good overall

[pinto]

52. Many liberal people of faith, GLBT groups, individuals, family and friends came together; AIDS care.

ACT UP paved the way for political change and social change. They literally brought the issue to the streets and the steps of political institutions. The people I mention above often worked behind the scenes. Usually in local efforts geared towards care, basic needs, etc.

Both ends of the spectrum were invaluable in those early days.

[AtheistCrusader]

53. ACT UP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_UP#.22Stop_the_Church.22

Is there some positive religious background to the group that escapes me?

[pinto]

54. No, I mention that as one other aspect of the spectrum of people that responded to the AIDS crisis.

ACT UP paved the way for political change and social change. They literally brought the issue to the streets and the steps of political institutions. The people I mention above often worked behind the scenes. Usually in local efforts geared towards care, basic needs, etc.

Both ends of the spectrum were invaluable in those early days.

Different roles, different approaches around a common issue. Didn't want to overlook ACT UP, didn't mean to imply they were connected via any sort of religious viewpoint.

[AtheistCrusader]

55. Oh, I see. Thanks. I misunderstood.

[pinto]

56. Thanks, no problem. Sometimes I write in a series of clauses that invites a misread.

LOL. Sometimes I go back and reread one of my posts and go, pinto you missed on that one.

[randys1]

65. agreed

[cbayer]

70. Of course that is absolutely true, but the anti-theists sometimes seem

completely unable to comprehend, let alone acknowledge, the good things that religion has done and continues to do.

It's a shame to dismiss and attack allies.

[AtheistCrusader]

75. 'Religion' doesn't DO anything.

People may DO things for religious reasons.

Whether or not they would not otherwise do those things that we consider positive, is an unsettled matter.

[trotsky]

76. I don't think misrepresenting a group of people like you do helps at all,

especially given that that's the behavior you are supposedly criticizing.

The main objection I hear from "anti-theists" is not necessarily that good things DON'T or CANNOT come from religion, but that religion was not necessary for those good things to happen.

I know you don't give two shits, since you've identified "anti-theists" as the enemy destroying the Democratic party, but for fuck's sake at least state their positions accurately.

"It's a shame to dismiss and attack allies."

It sure is, cbayer. It sure is.

[randys1]

66. I like you, but I think you are identified with a group that deserves to be shamed over and over

Last edited Thu May 22, 2014, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)

even though you are clearly not part of that group

the Liberal xtian, the good hearted xtian that judges NOBODY as the bible DEMANDS they do, are either very quiet or not big in numbers

not sure which

I should have worded it differently, not identified maybe because in USA some people know decent xtians exist, so i should think of a better way to say that.

Really, rent the movie, you will laugh and afterwards we will have something to talk about

[cbayer]

71. Consider this.

What if belief is not a choice. What if belief is not a lifestyle. What if belief is something that is innate, that you are born with, that is not really optional.

Could you "choose" to believe? I doubt it.

Sound familiar? It should.

I'm proud to be a religionist, an "apologist" for religion and any of the other things that are thrown at me.

You think I deserve shaming? What exactly gives you the right to shame anyone for what they believe. You may have some right to shame people for their actions, but for their beliefs? Should you be shamed for your lack of beliefs because there are some really evil non-believers?

Did you get an opportunity to look at the NALT project website? Do you think Dan Savage should be shamed? I'd love to see you try.

I am not ashamed.

[randys1]

72. Rent the movie "The Invention of Lying" by Ricky Gervais

and you will see why the exact opposite is true, and I really mean it, please watch that movie and get back to me

I didnt say shame YOU, i said shame the rightwing, Gay hating xtians...that wasnt clear????

My god, please read my posts more clearly, we might actually have a discussion here but not if you choose to misread them

I said you are

IDENTIFIED

with that group but are NOT part of the group...american christians are seen as Gay hating assholes, whether or not that is true of YOU or not that is how they are seen by many around the world...certainly by many here

again

NOT YOU

NOT LIBERAL xtians...NOT NOT NOT

[cbayer]

79. Seen it (twice) and don't get the point of how it applies.

I did think it was hilarious though.

This is what you said:

You are identified with a group that deserves to be shamed

No, I'm not. I'm identified with progressive/liberal believers. The group you describe above, "rightwing, Gay hating xtians", I'm not identified with in any way.

If you want to make that distinction, and my major point here is that you should, then you should be careful to make that clear.

[randys1]

80. OH, the movie shows you that you cant be born a believer

You saw the movie and you dont understand that, twice even?

You see someone had to create the lie before you had the chance to believe it, that is a simple fact.

[cbayer]

82. You should know by now that I am way too stupid to understand a piece of fiction

that is about lying.

That movie has absolutely no bearing on my argument that belief may be inherent and not a choice. It's a movie. It's fiction.

Your assumption is that is a lie. That's dogmatic fundamentalism. That's a simple fact.

[randys1]

83. have a nice life

[cbayer]

84. You too.

it's been nice talking to you, although we disagree. Civility is a good thing.

[cleanhippie]

88. Belief IS inherent. RELIGIOUS belief is a choice.

You really should read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Believing-Brain-Conspiracies-How-Construct/dp/1250008808

[AtheistCrusader]

77. "What exactly gives you the right to shame anyone for what they believe."

Oh, well, I guess I'll just pack up all my political beliefs and go home then, since I can't criticize or shame Republicans for their beliefs about women, or war, or the poor, etc.

After all, what right do I have, right?


Pack it in folks. Turn off DU, let's go home. We have no right.

[Warren Stupidity]

106. Do you care about the vile things religious people and groups have done?

Oh wait no, you consistently insist that that has nothing to do with religion, unless it is a religion on your approved hate list.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Commonality of a belief doesn't impart any credibility in that belief.

It's either true or not, regardless of how many people hold that belief to be true.
This was not a valid objection to the leprechaun comparison.

[randys1]

38. I would never say a word about religion if it wasnt for

People strapping bombs to themselves who incorrectly follow Islam to the belief of killing others

Or people on the right in america who incorrectly interpret the bible and Jesus to hate Gays and so on

But they do, all religions (maybe there is one or two good ones, if so I am willing to learn) in one way or another do harm, in some cases it is the follower who misinterprets, but result is the same

[cbayer]

46. You are certainly well within your rights to say whatever

you want about extremists who blow themselves up or trample on the rights of others in the name of religion.

What I object to is your broad brushing that onto everyone who may fall loosely into the same category.

That's prejudice and I think prejudice is wrong.

You even projected it onto me, and I'm not a believer.

So, what do you make of that?

[cbayer]

42. Of course it doesn't, but commonality of disbelief may lend

credibility to something actually not being true.

It may be true or not or just something entirely different than what anyone has imagined.

At any rate, neither you or I or the person I was responding to has any definitive answer.

The leprechaun comparison, like the Santa Claus, tooth fairly, etc ad nauseum, comparisons are lame and juvenile.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Wait, what.

You accept that commonality of belief doesn't lend weight to the belief
but you feel commonality of disbelief lends weight to doubt?

These seem inconsistent positions. What I stated of belief, I hold true for disbelief as well.


I disagree with your characterization of 'lame and juvenile'. It's certainly a different perspective, since most of us know that our parents put the coins under our pillow, but the level of evidence in both cases is the same. So I think the comparison is fair.

[cbayer]

69. No, I accept that commonality of belief offers no evidence, but

I do think it has weight.

There are many things that are commonly believed and many things that are commonly not believed. In the absence of hard evidence, which do you think is more likely to be possibly true?

It is lame and juvenile to compare belief in god to belief in leprechauns. It's a tired and facile argument which really holds no weight whatsoever. It is commonly used to dismiss and denigrate believers. In short, it's worthless, even if you think it's fair.

[AtheistCrusader]

74. I agree it holds no weight.

Neither does belief.

The comparison is meaningful *to me*. Just like belief is meaningful to ANY individual. Beyond that neither has any weight at all.

Does that help?

[phil89]

102. Why are they juvenile

When they all have the same amount of evidence for proving them? How can you believe in one but find belief in the others silly?

[cbayer]

104. They are juvenile because they require no thought and are only used to be dismissive

dismissive and make oneself feel superior.

Is that clear enough?

[phil89]

40. Atheism and lack of belief in leprechauns

Requires no faith.

[cbayer]

43. No, but the members statement was not about atheism was it.

He made a definitive statement that there was no god. That's not atheism and it does require faith.

[phil89]

86. It's not an assertion he could support

imo. No one knows 100% for sure if there isn't a santa or that Star Wars isn't really happening in a galaxy far far away, or god. But many people are ok with recognizing that they are just made up stories. I try to be specific and say that I don't know with 100% certainty these things don't exist, but there's certainly no reason to believe they do.

[cbayer]

96. My point (often) is that while there is certainly no reason for you

to believe that something exists (god), there may be very good reasons for others to believe that something exists.

As long as the belief does not impinge on you personally, I see no reason for "you" to try and deprive them or denigrate them for that belief. Please understand that I am using the generic "you" and don't mean this personally.

[Arugula Latte]

31. Here's one study that showed prayer basically had no effect:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[rug]

51. I rarely pray.

I prefer to try to be conscious of what's all around and appreciate why.

[okasha]

59. Only ninr posts for the thread

to go off the rails. Not a record, but prompt.

[AtheistCrusader]

60. Why don't you just say it to me?

And how the fuck is my post 'going off the rails'?

[okasha]

63. Because my comment

doesn't apply only to you.

[AtheistCrusader]

64. But it specifies the 9th post.

So, in what way was my post 'off the rails'?

A question was asked. I answered it. Prayer plays a role in my life, and I detailed it rather open and honestly.

[cleanhippie]

89. If only ninr posts are allowed, why the passive-aggressive taunt?

You gotta follow the rules, especially if you make them.

[TygrBright]

73. Prayer is the exercise regimen that builds health in my spirit.

I don't think I can adequately explain that.

But when I sit quietly, focusing on That of God, rejoicing in my gratitude, turning over my fears, opening myself internally to new ways of seeing, my spirit grows.

When I sit quietly, focusing on That of God, I build my ability to perceive That of God.

This is a cycle that feeds my spirit, and I hope it enables me to express That of God in what I do.

Someday perhaps I'll be in a form that will allow me to see past the limited sensorium of this existence, and understand more of the pattern that I participate in.

speculatively,
Bright

[kwassa]

91. Thank you. Excellent post.

[Rhymes With Orange]

78. I'm not sure why people pray.

If it's god's will that something will happen, then prayer is unnecessary. If it's god's will that something will not happen, praying for it is futile.

[cbayer]

81. Praying can be for many things, not just requests.

Just read some of the other responses in this thread.

[hrmjustin]

90. We pray to praise the divine, to talk with the divine, and to offer up our needs.

[Rhymes With Orange]

93. Offer up your needs?

Really? Wouldn't god already know what you need? I'm not trying to be flippant here. I'm just saying that if god is all-knowing and all-powerful, shouldn't he know what you need? He needs you to tell him? Again, not trying to be flippant, just curious....

[hrmjustin]

94. I understand your curious. we are human and mortal so people who believe need to touch the divine.

Just because God may know what we need that does not stop us from seeking comfort by talking with the divine.

It helps the spirit.

[cbayer]

97. Not trying to be flippant? I guess it just comes naturally then.

He's giving you an honest answer and you are reverting to a stale and old response that doesn't really recognize what he is saying as meaningful.

You are curious? Then try asking him without using that lame argument.

[pinto]

87. I prayed that someone would die.

Not sure to whom or what. Just in silence. Walked down to the mission a few of times and lit two candles. One for him and one for me. For him that death would come seamlessly to his life and for me that I would, could go on. And remember, and live my life whatever that meant afterwards.

[kwassa]

92. Prayer plays multiple roles in my life.

Prayer, to me, is turn one's focus focus towards the divine. I don't differentiate it from meditation. I see this as the basic spiritual practice

I don't ask for things, other than God's will for me. I pray for awareness and clarity.

Lately, I've been trending more towards Buddhist meditation practices, and have been on a couple of retreats. I like retreats.

One can pray/meditate in many different ways, of course. The more varied, the more interesting.

[Starboard Tack]

98. I pray all the time, but not to some external deity.

Prayer, to me, is an internal conversation, like praying for the wisdom to make positive decisions that cause the least harm to others and the planet we live on.
I don't pray for others, but if I think they deserve it, I send them all the positive thoughts and energy I can muster.

[cbayer]

99. I don't generally pray, but I am going to a catholic wedding today where there will be

opportunities to do so.

I will spend the time to reflect, to focus all my energy on sending my love and best wishes to the couple and if there is anything left over, I will exert it on trying not to cry like a baby.

[Prophet 451]

103. I pray each morning and evening

My chosen deity (Father Lucifer) isn't omnipotent so if I ask for anything, it's usually something small or just to watch over someone. To me, prayer is an act of communion with the deity, connecting with something much older and wiser than the self.

[Warren Stupidity]

105. It annoys the shit out of me when it gets performed in public ceremonies.

[hrmjustin]

107. Goverment ceremonies I agree.

That includes in schools as well.

[Warren Stupidity]

108. any public ceremonies not specifically religious.

the assumption that everyone shares "belief", and generally " Christian belief" is oppressive.

[JNelson6563]

109. Not only oppressive

but it reveals a very deeply ingrained sense of entitlement that irks me to no end.

Julie

[goldent]

110. I think of it as cultural / tradition

Our Memorial Day service is about 90% tradition - the exact same speeches and songs done year after year.

[JNelson6563]

111. Christian prayer at public functions is a cultural thing

for Christians. America is not monolithic and the Christians are going to have to stop pretending it is.

You want prayer to be part of an event? Then have a religious event. That is how it should be in a secular state.

Julie

[Heddi]

112. Rather than pray, I prefer to get off my ass and actually DO something that will affect change

Prayer is literally the *least* someone can do in a situation.

Me, I prefer to do things that make a difference in other's lives, rather than just genuflecting on how nice it would if a difference could be made in people's lives. I donate my time, money, skills, effort to effecting positive change for those around me, and those I've never met, and those in communities I'll never visit. Prayer does none of that. Prayer means you don't actually have to lift a fucking finger to make the world a better place. Remember, God answers all prayers....and sometimes the answer is "no."

[Htom Sirveaux]

113. Do you see it as an "either/or" situation?

Surely they can pray AND do the things you listed, can't they?

[Heddi]

114. Well the religious seem to put SO much emphasis on I PRAYED! I PRAYED FOR RAIN I PRAYED FOR YOU

I PRAYED FOR HIM

super.
great
awesome

So I don't know if it's an either/or. All I hear from the religionists is how much they pray, they will pray, have prayed in the past. Very little about what they've done, will do, or plan to do in the future.