Of Presbyterians & Whiskey: the role of religion in Scottish independence

[cbayer]

http://blog.chron.com/sacredduty/2014/09/of-presbyterians-whiskey-the-role-of-religion-in-scottish-independence/

Posted on September 17, 2014 | By kenchitwood



In the coverage of the Scottish independence referendum news agencies have taken just about every imaginable angle, from whiskey to sport to pop culture icons such as James Bond and Harry Potter.

Yet, in the midst of all the economic, cultural, and political discussions, precious view pundits have addressed the question of religion.

On Thursday September 18, 2014 the Scottish people will vote on the question, “Should Scotland be an independent country? — voters can answer ‘Yes’ or ‘No.’ Amidst the political wrangling and fits of nationalism, what is the role of religion in the vote for Scottish independence? Is there one to speak of?

After all, religion has featured prominently in shaping, and dividing, the United Kingdom throughout the years. From the Druid queen Boudica who led a Celtic rebellion against the Roman Empire to the War of the Three Kingdoms and the Protestant-Catholic bloodshed in Northern Ireland, religion has always produced great conflict in the British Isles.

more at link

[TexasProgresive]

1. That should be whisky not whiskey-Scotch doesn't have the e.

Chitwood's article take on the role of religion in the independence debate in Scotland is interesting but does nothing to make the case that Scotch whisky has a role in whether Scotland votes yes or no for independence. In fact his only use of the word is in the headline, in the first sentence and the absolute last word.

In the coverage of the Scottish independence referendum news agencies have taken just about every imaginable angle, from whiskey to sport to pop culture icons such as James Bond and Harry Potter.

Markedly more important than faith and religious ritual are discussions of oil reserves, currency, and yes — Scotch whiskey.

[Gelliebeans]

2. The Scots

Have been really trying through the courts for almost 15 years now. I have friends there.

[cbayer]

3. What is your take on what is going to happen here?

It seems really up in the air, even at this late date.

[Gelliebeans]

5. It's 51 vs 49 in favor of freedom

To be honest I don't know. It's seriously like herding cats over there.

Their disdain for English rule is palpable...they are way more progressive than their counterparts...the currency may be an issue, and it would take 18 months to exchange power....if a yes vote is decided Thursday. The oil depletion off the North Sea in present years, hasn't been as lucrative as it once was but I do understand wanting to self govern, though and I'm sure there will be many growing pains. It has been what they have wanted since the bloody war of the Jacobite uprising in 1745 that killed thousands of Scots on Culloden Moor when they tried to put Bonny prince Charlie on the throne. Culloden...Talk about an eerie place, they never stood a chance in that moor although they fought bravely.

I have driven from john of groats to lands end many times photographing ruins and the 5 or so million Scots just want their independence. I support them. Even if it means leaner times ahead. They are a strong and proud people.

[cbayer]

6. I read an article today about how this close split makes

this particularly difficult. If they pass independence, you then have about ½ of the population that will be unhappy with that decision.

Each side seems rather vehement about their position from what we see, but I would guess that the bulk of people are grossly ambivalent.

I won't be surprised if they vote it down, because those on the fence may be likely to resist change. But in my heart, and as a red blooded american, I hope they cut loose. The whole empire thing makes me a bit queasy.

I don't know enough of the Scottish history. I am married to a brit, so I am getting a rather skewed version of this of course.

[TexasProgresive]

7. That seems to be the way of the world today

50-50 splits on almost every issue everywhere.

[cbayer]

8. It does seem to be the way of the world on many issues, but

I thin that has been going on forever.

That is why the art of negotiation and compromise are so valuable.

[trotsky]

9. Negotiation and compromise? When religion is a factor?

Good luck.

"Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

"Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what's possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It's the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God's edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one's life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing." -- Barack Obama

[cbayer]

4. There has been a lot of articles about the impact this would have on

the Scotch Whisky industry. There is a great deal of concern from the distillers, exporters and those around the world that love scotch.

I think that was his only point in bringing it up.

[okasha]

10. The conclusion of the article is that religion is playing "a relatively minor"

role in the movement for Scottish independence.

The author unfortunately exaggerates the role religion has historically played in Scottish history. The Boudiccan uprising was grounded in a struggle over power and wealth, not religion. William Wallace was a notably devout Catholic, but so was his archenemy, Edward of England. (Please do not mistake Braveheart for anything resembling history.) Robert the Bruce was excommunicated for killing a political opponent in a church, but the killing had nothing to do with religion. Henry VIII's attacks on Scotland were political, not religious.

Violence erupted in Scotland specifically over religion with the beginning of the Scottish Reformation, led by John Knox. It was, however, as much a political as a religious conflict, hingeing on access to/possession of the person of James VI/I during his minority. The Puritan Covenanters also brought on specifically religious conflict with those they considered insufficiently Protestant. One might also count the fact that much of "Bonnie Prince Charlie's" support was Catholic, but Protestants "went out in the '45," too.

And that's about it. Scots were notably fractious among themselves, but neither that fact nor their intermittent conflicts with England had much to do with religion.