'Beardless Jesus' found in Spain

[left-of-center2012]

Source: BBC NEWS

Archaeologists in Spain say they have found one of the world's earliest known images of Jesus. It is engraved on a glass plate dating back to the 4th Century AD.
Jesus Christ is flanked by two apostles, believed to be Peter and Paul.
Christ looks very different from later depictions: he has no beard, his hair is not too long and he is wearing a philosopher's toga.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29480874

[littlemissmartypants]

1. Thank you. nt

[okasha]

2. Looks like Byzantine work.

[HeiressofBickworth]

3. What makes them think it is Jesus?

I see some dude with a cross and no beard with a couple of other dudes along side.

Do they think anyone holding a cross is automatically Jesus?

Seems to me religious people see what they want to see.

[MADem]

5. That Chi Rho thingy in the corner, there....it's like a designer label.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho

This thing:

The Chi Rho (/ˈkaɪ ˈroʊ/) is one of the earliest forms of christogram, and is used by some Christians. It is formed by superimposing the first two (capital) letters chi and rho (ΧΡ of the Greek word "ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ" = Christ in such a way to produce the monogram. Although not technically a Christian cross, the Chi-Rho invokes the crucifixion of Jesus, as well as symbolising his status as the Christ.[1]

[HeiressofBickworth]

23. It appears to be a symbol

indicating that the scene depicted relates to Christianity, however, it still doesn't indicate that the exact person depicted is THE Jesus. It would be like me standing in front of the Australian flag -- doesn't make me an Aussie.

[MADem]

24. It's a symbol made up of letters that start to spell out Christ.

When I see that thing, I think they're talking about Jesus Christ--not "generic Christians." It's his "monogram," his personal symbol, not the symbol of his movement.

YMMV but that's my POV.

[okasha]

25. Exactly.

That's how it's used, and why it frequently appears on communion vessels and on the veil that covers them in liturgical churches.

It's like the Presidential seal. You know what it is, or you don't. Opinion doesn't enter into it.

[MADem]

26. I'm no expert but that was my strong sense--thank you for validating my view.

Heh heh @ "the Presidential Seal." Perfect analogy!

[MADem]

4. College yearbook pic.

It's hard finding work as a philosophy major!

[mr blur]

6. Well, so what?

Who cares?
A myth is a myth whether it's bearded or not.

[rug]

7. So is piffle.

[edhopper]

8. not unprecidented

and the early ones where up to the imagination of the artists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus

[left-of-center2012]

9. Range of depictions

Certain local traditions have maintained different depictions, sometimes reflecting local racial characteristics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus#Range_of_depictions

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Beardless Jesus also has a giant arm growing out of his hip.

The historical accounts (sic) seemed to have missed that detail.

[okasha]

11. The "giant arm,"

like the other white patches, indicates a space where a part of the artifact is missing.

Do try to think a bit, Warren. It's not that hard.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. No really, look again. The right arm is clearly attached to the hip.

Perhaps this might help you grasp the basics:

[edhopper]

13. The elbow is fine

his lower arm is a bit elongated.

The early christian artists weren't Michelangelo.

[img][/img]

[okasha]

14. Much of the upper right arm is in fact missing.

The body proportions and forms in this piece are typical of Byzantine art--elongated limbs and markedly round heads, for example. It's a style that deliberately departs from realistic figurative principles.

[edhopper]

15. Yep. Meant lower arm.

Fixed now.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. on second thought perhaps a small elephant is involved.

[pinto]

16. Looks typically Grecian to me.

[okasha]

17. That's because it is.

Last edited Sun Oct 5, 2014, 07:58 PM - Edit history (1)

[edhopper]

18. Why do you say that?

[okasha]

19. Well, there are the characteristically

elongated body proportions I mentioned before, which you also noticed in the arm. Then there are the unrealistically rounded heads that can still be seen in some Greek and Russian Orthodox iconography. There's the Greek chi-rho monogram, flanked by an alpha and an omega. If you look at where the left hand should be, there's an open book held so that the viewer can read the inscription. (Which I can't, at the moment; insufficient resolution on my phone.) You find that a lot in Eastern Christian iconography, especially in representations of Christos Pantokrator. Finally, look at the long tunics all three figures are wearing. They're dalmatics, which were worn by courtiers and scholars in Byzantium and are still the appropriate liturgical garment for deacons.


Edited to add: the stylized waves around the rim are a motif found in Aegean/Greek art all the way back to the Mycenaean period.

[edhopper]

20. Oh, it's Grecian in style

Or rather byzantine with eastern influence.
Not that it's from Greece.

[okasha]

22. Right.

It could have been made anywhere in the Eastern Empire. If I had to guess, I'd say Palestine. That's because the one non-Greek element, the two flanking date palms, is frequently found in Byzantine-era Jewish mosaics (on synagogue floors, eg,), and because there was a flourishing glass industry in Palestine.

[MADem]

27. If you don't teach a course in this stuff, you should!

Who knew there was a glass industry in Palestine? Makes sense, of course--smart folks, lots of raw materials...but, ya know, who knew?

[cbayer]

28. Ditto that. Her range of knowledge is impressive and her

ability to explain things excellent.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. Actually it seems to have been made in spain, which has a lot of similar glass works from the era.

At least that is as far as my awful Spanish gets me.

[pinto]

30. Thanks for the follow up info. I really like this artistic style.