FBI to investigate after teen dies in hit-and-run crash

[AtheistCrusader]

"Investigators believe 15-year-old targeted outside mosque

KANSAS CITY, Mo. —FBI officials in Kansas City said they will work with Kansas City police to investigate the hit-and-run death of a 15-year-old boy.

The incident happened outside a mosque near Admiral Boulevard and Lydia Avenue about 5:30 p.m. Thursday. Police said the driver ran with a machete after the crash, but was taken into custody a short time later. He was described as a 30-year-old man.

The teen's legs were severed when he was struck by an SUV. An adult victim was also hit. He suffered non-life-threatening injuries.

Police said there is evidence that indicates that this was not an accident."

http://www.kmbc.com/news/fbi-to-investigate-after-teens-killed-in-hitandrun/30067646


So, this is some horrible shit. WTF

[Cartoonist]

1. Sort of off topic

When I clicked on the link, this was a sidebar on the page:


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So we have the horrifying hit-and-run story, and this steers you to even more horror stories. Maybe we are living in the end times.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Man charged with murder for allegedly charging teen with SUV outside Kansas City mosque

The driver of the SUV, Ahmed H. Aden, a 34-year-old Kansas City truck driver, told police after his arrest that he had been searching for men who’d threatened him nine days earlier. And he said he planned to kill those men if he found them, according to court records.
...
Aden, whom sources described as a Somali Christian, now is the target of both a state murder investigation and a federal hate-crimes probe, authorities said.
...
“He said he will kill a number of people,” Abdi said. “Ultimately, he killed one. Allah did not allow him to kill more.”

Moussa Elbayoumy, chairman of the Kansas chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said a member of the mosque has a photo of Aden’s SUV, taken about two months ago, showing anti-Muslim graffiti, reading, “Quran is a virus disease (worse) than Ebola.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article4299890.html#storylink=cpy

[stone space]

3. Oh, geeze. Why do I sense an outrage shitstorm coming on?

Allah did not allow him to kill more

[edhopper]

4. Why

he acknowledges that Allah allowed him to kill this poor kid?

[stone space]

6. Where?

he acknowledges that Allah allowed him to kill this poor kid?

None of the pronouns are capitalized, except for the first word of the first sentence.

There is no indication in the quote that Allah was Himself involved in the killing. In the last sentence, He is credited with saving others.

“He said he will kill a number of people,” Abdi said. “Ultimately, he killed one. Allah did not allow him to kill more.”

Any statement about Allah allowing anybody to kill anybody is your own construction, not his.

I suppose that if he were here you could ask him, and maybe you could get him to agree with you. But absent that, we're pretty much stuck with the man's own words.

[edhopper]

7. Ultimately Allah did not all him to

kill more So, Allah, either by non action or indifference allowed the teen to be killed. I don't think the man was saying Allah acted to have the teen killed, so he did nothing to prevent it. If he intervened to stop further killings, why didn't he do so before the teen was killed? It's a valid question
Now he might not mean any of it and it just a way to say he is thankful that no one else was harmed, which is fine.
But the phrasing of this, as is often by many religious people, is to than God for someone being saved or unharmed. Do none of them think God has anything to do with these events, or are they all just reflexive expressions like "bless you" for a sneeze.
If some do think that the good events are a direct result of God's favor (pick a percent of those who mean it and those who don't) then asking about those harmed is a apt question.

[stone space]

9. Ultimately, everything beyond the bold is your own construction.

Ultimately Allah did not allow him to kill more

This sentenced (slightly edited for your sticky keyboard--I need to get a new one myself), is the only part that comes from the guy himself.

then asking about those harmed is a apt question.

Sure, you could ask him. If you do ask him, please let me know what he says, OK?

I'll hold off on any presumptions for now.

So far, all we got is a guy who credits Allah with saving others, perhaps quite literally.

But that's it.

I'll be interested in anything you find out, though, if you do get a chance to ask him.

[edhopper]

10. Do you think anyone

who says God is responsible for a good outcome amidst a bad event thinks God actually had a hand in the occurrence.
Or are all of them just using it as a figure of speech? Do none of think God acts to benefit people in any way?

[stone space]

11. I think there is a great variety of things that people say and believe. (nt)

[edhopper]

12. So if we address those

that think God intervened in a tragedy to save someone. Can't we ask what that means to those who were not saved? And why God did not intervene for them?

[stone space]

13. No problem. Just let me know what they tell you, OK?

I mean, what they really, actually say in the physical world, not in some fantasy world of our own imagination.

[edhopper]

14. Okay

you just want to avoid the discussion.

I'll go now.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Since you started this discussion with reply #3, politeness should mean you actually reply

to someone who takes you up on your point, rather than you picking out one phrase and then saying, in post after post, "I don't want to talk about it".

[stone space]

16. I'm happy to talk about what the guy said.

But when we get to discussing what the guy didn't say, I run out of data.

If you want to talk about what the guy actually said, here is the available data:

“He said he will kill a number of people,” Abdi said. “Ultimately, he killed one. Allah did not allow him to kill more.”

[stone space]

18. I am a human being. (nt)

[Jim__]

5. “I think this is a mental issue.”

From the article:

“I don’t think this is a Christian, Muslim issue,” he said. “I think this is a mental issue.”

[edhopper]

8. does sound like

a mental/cultural issue. though religion is a big part of the culture.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. I don't know how things work in Missouri...

...but in my neck of the woods, pharmacists aren't in the business of diagnosing mental illness.

Nor are they in the business of investigating murders.

[Jim__]

20. I don't know about your community, but in many communities when someone has serious ...

... mental health issues, people are aware of it.

Alew wasn't making a diagnosis. He was speaking of a fact known in the community. From the Kansas City Star:

MINNEAPOLIS (KMSP) -

A Kansas City man who intentionally ran over a 15-year old boy, perhaps because he was Muslim, has an extensive mental health history in Minnesota.

Ahmed Aden, 34, was civilly committed as mentally ill November 14, 2011. He was hospitalized intermittently until February 2014 when his family says he left to find work in Missouri.

...

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. Yes and no.

I don't know about your community, but in many communities when someone has serious mental health issues, people are aware of it.

Communities may be aware that there are "issues", but only vaguely. They rarely understand what those issues are, and cannot reliably analyze behavior in the context of these problems. Even now, we don't know Aden's diagnosis. As likely as it may seem, any connection between his illness and this act of violence is, at this point, speculation.

I shouldn't have to explain why this is problematic.

Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza had "mental issues", the scope of which were poorly understood by those who saw fit to comment on them. The news reported, quoting Lanza's father and elder brother (neither of whom were particularly involved in his treatment), that Lanza had received treatment for Asperger's, but, as Asperger's has not been positively linked to violent behavior, the diagnosis was irrelevant to the shooting. However, once that "news" hit the airwaves, there was no taking it back. Now, people who suffer the social stigma of a developmental disorder now suffer the additional social stigma of having been associated with a murderer of children.

Most mentally ill people are not violent. Most violent people are not mentally ill. Despite that, "mental illness" has become a convenient scapegoat for violent behavior, so much that whenever some heinous act of violence hits the news, people immediately begin to speculate as to the soundness of the killer's mind.

If it turns out Aden has been diagnosed with a potentially dangerous mental condition that could reasonably explain why he did what he did, then that's fine. But I want to hear it from the experts, not some guy on the street.

[stone space]

22. The connection between his act of violence, and...

...the high powered semi-automatic weaponry that he had access to is less speculative, however.

As likely as it may seem, any connection between his illness and this act of violence is, at this point, speculation.

Mental illness cannot account for his ability to kill so many children and teachers so quickly and efficiently, because mental illness does not endow anyone such a level of Omnipotence, even if they are prone to violence.