Religion
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Next time somebody tries to "save" you, ask them if they've ever
committed adultery since they've been "saved."
would that be rude? Obnoxious? Showing lack of boundaries? Yes, all of
the above....just like what they are doing.
Please report back to this thread about the response. 
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JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)"And he wants you to stop."
"And that includes all the masturbation, it's too much."
They leave skid marks.
kimbutgar
(21,148 posts)Just because they are so called saved and born again, they're still the a$$holes they were before.
Today's right wing Christians are no real Christians but people who want to justify their being jerks by saying the are Christians.
A real Christian is one who should be defined as one who is Christian by their deeds not their words.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I tell them yes I am saved just like we all are. I believe we are all saved from Jesus's death and resurrection despite whether we believe it or not. That pisses them off.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)the concept of free will. You make a choice to ultimately accept or reject God.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
safeinOhio
(32,682 posts)would.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Just saying.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)which is not exactly the same thing at all.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)I can read, and from what I read in the bible, that god is anything but loving.
Unless one's idea of loving is genocide, murder, rape, etc., which I don't think you are talking about.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)but I think that many times people are looking for confirmation from a holy book to sanction actions they want to take anyway. They selectively read the passages that confirm and conform to their behaviors and biases.
Many rich Christians see their wealth as a sign of divine favor, even though Jesus counseled his followers to "give up all you have and come follow me".
Whether a god creates his followers in his own image or his followers create the god in their own image is not something that anyone can answer. Maybe creation is a two way street. Maybe the idea of a god is just the expression of what a culture values most and that expression is personified in a deity. Sort of constructing the ideal person and calling her/him god.
When I am personally asked to define Christianity I respond with Jesus' words to his followers when he was asked what the Law was. He said that the whole of the Law was to love your neighbor as yourself. No room there for genocide, murder, rape, etc.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)As if I did something wrong.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)He said that believing or not is fine and that he thinks free will plays a part.
Since he believes in God, the feel that the god he believes in wouldn't judge you either way.
That's a pretty nice position to take, imo. He never says that you have done something wrong.
Heddi
(18,312 posts)for·give
\fər-ˈgiv, fȯr-\
verb
: to stop feeling anger toward (someone who has done something wrong) : to stop blaming (someone)
: to stop feeling anger about (something) : to forgive someone for (something wrong)
: to stop requiring payment of (money that is owed)
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)We don't do factual or accurate definitions here. You know this. 
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)We will find out wjen we die if there is more than this life.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)But yes the ways of God are different from ours so it is up to the divine to set the standard.
I believe God is just.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Also, what ways of this god are different than ours, and what standard are we talking about?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't have those answers.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Isn't it equally likely, assuming he/she/it exists, that they are unjust, arbitrary and evil?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)That is what faith is. I can proclaim any faith out loud but the fact is I know as much as you and everybody else does about what happens after death.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I can't believe in things without evidence. More than that, I find the idea of dedicating any part of my life to such an unprovable idea to be not only a waste of time, but counterproductive. I would rather people start caring about this life rather than hoping for a good one in the next. I find the belief in an afterlife seems to reduce the amount of care people have for this life, this life is fleeting after all, and the next one will be awesome, that's the hope, at least, and it cheapens this life. But its an easy answer for explaining away suffering.
I will say that a big part of why I don't believe is because the universe seems to operate without a deity, at least not a 3O deity. Given the state of the universe, and the evident apathy of this possible deity, I'd rather think that no deity is out there.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)him/her/it, then what value does this life had compared to eternity? Indeed, if this god isn't limited in some way, why have us live this life at all? Especially those who, due to circumstances beyond their control, suffer greatly in this life?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)mr blur
(7,753 posts)For the genocide, the torture, the starvation, the bigotry, the injustice, the greed, the jealousy, the psychotic behaviour and all the other disgusting things for which, in your 'holy' book, he is responsible?
Or does he get a pass because you might be terrified of him?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)It is certainly reasonable to ask why they are allowed.
And yes I fear the Lord.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Why would such a being want to instill fear in you? Indeed, how can such a being be called good.
In addition, according to the Bible, those aren't human failings, but actions either endorsed, committed by or tolerated by Yahweh.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I love and fear the Lord because of who God is.
It is all a hopd that God is good. I told you I do not know why bad things are allowed to happen. It is a mystery of faith.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Who is God? Because, I'll be honest, but the only people who are usually loved and feared at the same time are parents/other loved ones who are abusers.
Granted, I'll admit that I'm not breaking new ground with this observation.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Who is God? i think he is love.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)not to mention that him being an emotion is nonsensical.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)trying to seek approval from an abusive and/or absent loved one(parent, spouse, etc.), and it does NOT sound healthy.
Seriously, in any other context, if you were to say this about love/fear thing along with tying your self worth to the approval of another, I would recommend you seek therapy and separation from this person who instills this in you.
This is also one of the many reasons I find Christianity and other salvation type religions to be particularly fucked up.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Thats fine.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)it seems to create cognitive dissonance by default in most people, and more than that, depending on the what they are putting their faith in, leads to people attempting to justify or commit all sorts of horrendous things.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I'm convinced it's a translation error:
"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of an abusive relationship"
Fixed it for you.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)He's got a LOT to answer for before he even thinks about getting to the piddly shit I've done during my existence.
I would not stand for a 'god' that pretended to be the offended character over my behavior, when it had done things like wiping out most of humanity, destroying entire cities, commanding human tribes to obliterate other tribes, and steal their female children, commanding doctrine that is used today by the RCC and other religious entities to try and pull exemptions from providing basic health care needs for women, etc.
Fuck that man-made caricature of a made up fucking god. And if in the end it turns out it exists, I'm going to tell it myself.
okasha
(11,573 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Job well done, I guess.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Almost as many times as you've quit DU.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)They should hide it.
SHAME ON YOU!
For anyone looking this is the post and look st its original. It is a picture of Santorum looking like he is masturbating.
Look at the edits.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=185689
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts) hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts) hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)apologize to me.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Then maybe.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)
pinto
(106,886 posts)Usually JW's or Mormons. I simply say, "No thank you" and close the door. They have been skipping my house lately - must have some sort of list on dead ends, possibilities, etc. etc.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)They're hard to miss.
Warpy
(111,261 posts)Night nurses are rabid when awakened.
The most I get is a tract quietly shoved under the windshield wiper or in the crack of the door.
I've only had someone offer to save me once, many, many years ago. I had the presence of mind to ask "what makes you think you're capable of saving anyone?" in a tone that conveyed I found them incompetent at saving string.
Mostly, they see me coming and leave me alone, for which I'm grateful.
The ones who tell me I'm going to hell get a hearty handshake with "I knew god was dead, but I didn't hear you'd gotten his job! CONGRATULATIONS!!"
I can usually make a clean getaway while they try to reboot.
safeinOhio
(32,682 posts)Every one is saved.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...and no one is saved unless they want to be.
The Dude Abides
I see the after life as being the same as the "before life"
Of coarse, as a UU, I thing everyone can seek their on path to the truth.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I tell them straight up that I'm not interested in what they are selling and walk away.
And that's the case whether they are trying to convert me to a religion or deconvert me from a religion.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)to de-convert you from religion.
I'm all ears.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Don't ask for evidence - they just are!
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)That's the first time I have ever heard of that. Please proceed.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)and thinks they have the one way, then I could see why you might be confused.
There are those who think that all people who believe in religion are delusional sheep who need to be shown the light and saved.
Have you not seen the t-shirt: Religion, together we can find a cure? That there says it all.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)It's the same as going door-to-door?
So when I wore my H.P. Lovecraft t-shirt yesterday, I was being an evangelical? Or my Thor t-shirt the day before. I was trying to convert people to the Norse gods?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)
What an extremist!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Feel free to proceed there on how no one is trying to "deconvert" others.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)That there are others out there that think the same way? Those are hardly deconversion efforts.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)a billboard letting other atheists know they aren't alone is EXACTLY THE SAME as a street preacher shoving a tract at you and screaming that you're going to hell.
Exactly the same. Well, according to cbayer of course.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)going from what she tells people when people try to de-convert her (for which she can not give one specific example) to see, I'm not lying cause this dead guy advocated for atheism before he died. Nevermind, no one ever knocked on her door to de-convert her, especially not the dead guy.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)As a reminder, your quote "I tell them straight up that I'm not interested in what they are selling and walk away."
Who, where and when...or do you normally have conversations with billboards?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I meet people like him from time to time and I have seen some of them post on the internet.
I tell them straight up that I'm not interested in what they are selling and walk away.
If you've not seen them, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Have a nice day now.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Nice try at walking it back. But no one is buying your ridiculous message of "BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME."
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)"I tell them straight up that I'm not interested in what they are selling and walk away."
Tell whom? The billboards or the imaginary people that are apparently roaming the streets trying to "deconvert" people?
I've seen the billboards, but have had no compunction to try and engage them in conversation...
To be clear, you are claiming that in the same way that some folks go door-to-door trying to convert people to their brand of religion, your claim is that there are some folks doing the same thing, only their mission is to 'deconvert'...
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Bless your little heart.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...especially in your favourite little corner of DU..
Now then, do the billboards talk back to you when you tell them you're not buying what they're selling....???
cbayer
(146,218 posts)You better watch out! This is happening in the UK!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/10/domestic-violence-billboard_n_6833680.html
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)The topic is whether or not atheists are actively going out and trying to deconvert the religious, and you have made no argument to show that this is happening. And certainly not happening at the same level as the religious folks who are constantly harassing people.
So you decide to compare atheist billboards to a novel billboard in one place with the subject of domestic violence. Nice try.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I have talked to them here and in real life. They believe that there is only one truth and that they have it. They see people who are religious as defective and feel that they have a mission to save them.
Now, you can deny that, but it's the truth.
I have made the argument and made it clearly.
I never said that it was happening at the same level, but it happens, and I have exactly the same reaction when it does.
Are you going to really take the position that this is not the case?
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I have no doubt that there are a few atheists who may come across as trying to deconvert religious people, but that is like saying that there are a few Christians who are serial killers. It does not reflect the norm.
I know several atheists, and I have never met one who actively works at deconverting people. It is a separate issue whether or not they believe that religious people are delusional or "defective". That doesn't mean that they are trying to make them change, it is just the way they think---like how I think that Republicans are wrong about their world view. I don't have to respect their beliefs, but I am not intent on changing them. Often, people might see it that way when there is a discussion about the belief in god because that is what they want to see. I make my arguments for my opinion that religion is in the same genre as voodoo and astrology, and a religious person will find offense instead of seeing it as just a difference of opinion. Changing their belief is not my intention.
What we do want is to have religion removed from the public realm. We want to have the same rights as religious people. That is the fight that we think is important...not whether people continue to believe in gods or go to church.
And why do you hate Dawkins?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I never said it was the norm. I never said that it was as common as religious evangelizers.
Whether you have met them or not, they are out there.
Who is this "we" you speak of? I am on the same side as you when it comes to clear separation and full and equal rights for non-believers. I also think it's important.
Why in the world would you think I was talking about you when I clearly was not?
You seem to have taken this very personally.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I guarantee you that I am not very rational when I take something personally. You would know it.
When I use the word "we", I am talking about atheist. Maybe I can't speak for all atheists, but I do know that I speak for many of them. And the only reason that I look at things at a personal level is because that is where my experience is. Just like you. You seem to know atheist who are knocking on doors trying to get people to turn from religion, but I have no experience with that. Even reading on atheist sites, I don't find anyone who suggests that atheists should be evangelizing.
I am not sure how to even think about your being on the same side as me when it comes to separation and rights though. You are always making apologies for religion here and will stand up for the believers against atheists in every thread. It just doesn't look to me like we are on the same side on anything. But I am glad to hear that you will stand up against religious privilege.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)among other atheists, and I have no issue with that. I am happy for you. I think you are very much like many of the atheists that I know.
I posted below a list of links and a video about atheists who try to deconvert. I'm not making this up and I don't object to their right to do it. Take a look at it and if you still think they don't exist, I don't know what else to say.
All I said is that I have the same reaction to them as I have to religious converters and I have a very firm but neutral response. The fact that some take strong objection to it would indicate that I must have hit a nerve.
If you think that I don't share your feelings about separation and rights, then you have bought into the caricature of me and not really paid attention to where I come down. If you choose to align yourself with a group of people who clearly despise me, then you are going to get a very distorted view.
Your broad assumptions about what I do and how I respond are patently false and have no basis in reality. It's exactly the kind of thing that some people do to atheists.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)No, cbayer, reaction to your posts doesn't mean you "hit a nerve" any more than it does when Rush Limbaugh spews some bullshit nonsense and people react.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)that is because all I know of you is what I see here in this group. You are right that I do not know you, but you should understand that all we know of each other is what we see here. You are right, I have found a community where I feel comfortable, but you are mistaken if you think that A&A focusses on you or despises you. (Despise---pretty harsh.)
There were no broad assumptions, cbayer. What I stated about your defense of the religious poster is accurate. And I have yet to see you defend atheists...maybe it is a problem you have with individuals here that makes it so hard for you to speak out when we are being treated unfairly. Or maybe I just haven't seen all the posts where you stand with atheists since I don't spend much time here. I would not have seen this one if it hadn't popped up on Latest Threads when it hit a milestone, so it is possible you do defend us and I miss it.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I post pro-religion, pro-atheist, anti-religion, and anti-atheist pieces. I am consistently supportive of separation issues and equal rights for non-believers.
If you have yet to see me defend atheists, then you have on blinders. In the past month alone, I have posted the following atheist supportive OP's.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218181390
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218181398
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218181533
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218183662
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218184423
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218184833
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218184925
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218185033
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218185827
Your judgments are unfair, but I understand where they are coming from.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)"They have a mission to save them"? No, you 're making that up. The people that "have a mission to save them" are the religious folks.
Atheists don't do that.
Atheists point how how illogical "god" is, and let people make up their own minds.
You know, just like proselytizing christians don't.
Just curious though, what would an atheist 'deconverter' threaten a religious person with if they DIDN'T deconvert? Not-hell? Un-eternal life?
That's just about as daft as suggesting, as you did, despite your attempts to run away from, the fact that there are people approaching others and trying to deconvert them...
cbayer
(146,218 posts)http://www.skepticink.com/dangeroustalk/2013/09/04/5-best-books-to-de-convert-a-christian/
http://kidswithoutgod.com/teens/ask/how-do-i-convert-someone-to-atheism/
http://www.asktheatheists.com/questions/385-what-ideas-best-deconvert-christians/
You can deny it and you may not be one of them, but they exist. Deal with it;
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That is a lame-ass passive-aggressive way to react. It was when Rush Limbaugh did it, and it's wrong for you to do it.
Just because someone reacts to something you say doesn't mean you "hit a nerve."
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...but sure, do go ahead and pretend that you didn't say what you said...
Wait.....someone is at the door...I bet it's one of those well-known pesky atheists trying to "deconvert" me...
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I tell them straight up that I'm not interested in what they are selling and walk away.
And that's the case whether they are trying to convert me to a religion or deconvert me from a religion.
Your desperation is really showing if you think that video proves your point.
The guy is laughing as he explains how they will save people with "the power of CHEEZ-ITS"! Oh yeah, he's really in-your-face about deconverting, no different than the guy they showed just before him who was yelling at people warning them of "the way of the ungodly".
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)g negative about religion.
Not only do you not walk away, you try to badger them out the door. Immediately, and enthusiastically. It's bad behavior IMO.
Good thing I'm not a host.
Examples that I sincerely encourage the jury to review:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=169751
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=163603
What happens when the newbie is actively conciliatory after being negative and getting attacked?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=166786
And what happens when the newbie posts a somewhat positive position on religion?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=167852
Compare and contrast.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Up is down, left is right, etc.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)And he tried to deconvert you? Did you get gis autograph on your copy of the God delusion? Nice picture you got of him, should have had Starboardtack tack a picture of the two of you!
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I was polite, but firm, with him and he was pretty gracious about it. He could tell I wasn't interested in what he was selling and moved on.
It's a moment I will never forget.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You make a a bogus claim on an open message board and people have a right to call bullshit.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)FUCKING T-SHIRTS!!! WHERE'S THE HUMANITY??!??!?
Rob H.
(5,351 posts)
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)people. Let us call them Jehovah's Witnesses. They proceeded to talk to her. She interrupted and said she did not have time for this. Their response was "you do not have time for Jesus?". She responded "I do not have time for you.
Rude, no. Stopped the conversation.
second story, my then girlfriend answered our door to be confronted by the same types. She recognized the literature and asked me to come to the door. I responded to them in French and refused to speak English. They came back two days later with some literature in French. Points for persistence.
Panich52
(5,829 posts)from wannabe saviors...
Response to raccoon (Original post)
Post removed
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)It was near downtown, I was working security, in full uniform, my "post" as it were, was around the corner from the main entrance of the building I was doing security for, on the side walk. Its a one way road that empties out on the main avenue around that corner Basically I'm in the shade, not a whole lot of foot traffic up or down this street. Anyways, one day, this car drives by, stops right in front of me, I actually freaked, thinking someone was going to punch or shoot me or something, someone jumps out, shoves "The Watchtower" into my hand, and drives off.
This isn't near a residential area, hence the lack of foot traffic, I figure some JWs saw us "loitering" on the street all day and thought we are easy marks, I just threw it in the trash, but I've been the victim of a drive by proselytizing attempt, lol.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It's the same right that allows me to knock on a stranger's door and ask them to vote for a candidate.
There's nothing wrong with saying "not interested." I've had many conversations with Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses who've come to my door. I've never felt the need to insult them, and they've been very respectful of my atheism in return.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I agree that there is no need to be rude or mean. Just tell them you are not interested if you don't want to be bothered.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)are different gods and different ways to be saved.
I could never buy the concept that we need to be saved.
It seems to me you make your own and other folks hell by your actions. The reverse can also be true.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)....as you didn't hurt others.
Make me a starship with unlimited speed.
Sure!
Thanks God!
Make a Movie that everybody would love
Sure!
Cool!
You're the best God ever!
Thanks...I do my best...opps gotta run...somebody is going to crash a plane....see you later!
Bye God...love ya!