Rush Limbaugh panics over decline of Christianity in America

[cbayer]

Rush Limbaugh panics over decline of Christianity in America — says ‘1 million gay activists’ are to blame

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/rush-limbaugh-panics-over-decline-of-christianity-in-america-says-1-million-gay-activists-are-to-blame/

DAVID EDWARDS
12 MAY 2015 AT 16:13 ET


Rush Limbaugh speaks to Fox News on Dec. 7, 2014. [Fox News]

Radio host Rush Limbaugh on Tuesday explained that Christianity was facing a sharp decline in the United States because Americans were leaving churches that had not “fallen prey to the dark side” and embraced same-sex marriage.

A recent Pew Research Center survey showed that the number of Americans identifying as Christians had dropped by 8 points in the last seven years. At the same time, Americans who were not affiliated with a religion rose from 16 percent to 23 percent.

On his Tuesday radio show, Limbaugh explained that the drop in self-identifying Christians could be explained by “homosexual marriage.”

Limbaugh noted that many churches already performed same-sex weddings and ordained gay clergy.

more at link

[longship]

1. Pew says that the pews are emptying?

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[cbayer]

2. Lol! Good one.

[Human101948]

3. maybe they got tired of sitting in their own pew...start Pew Poll!

Phew! That stinks!

[rurallib]

24. Sunday morning service time now being used for

gay sex time. Thanks for the suggestion, Rush.

[cbayer]

25. 1 million gay activists all having gay sex at the same time!

It must be armageddon, Limbaugh.

[DetlefK]

4. That picture looks severely photoshopped.

No beard-shade, no wrinkles, no double-chin... He looks like a wax-figure.

[trotsky]

5. The OP should have a warning.

Opening this up to see that horrible face was disgusting.

[cbayer]

6. Raw Story often uses these kinds of stylized images.

[edhopper]

7. He's right about

gay marriage being a cause.

But i think it is because people who have no problem with gay marriage are tired of the various churches being obsessed and hateful about it.

[cbayer]

8. I agree. I think the position of some churches on social issues has

driven some people out, particularly catholics.

One thing the study shows is that the major movement of the catholics is to more progressive mainline churches, and that is probably the group you are talking about.

[edhopper]

9. Yes

It happens in other churches as well.

There is more acceptance even among Black Protestants and Mormons.

http://www.pewforum.org/2014/09/24/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

[cbayer]

10. Yes, the tide has definitely turned on this and if the major denominations

don't get on board, they can expect to see more bleeding.

The RCC will be among the last, but I hope this report and others like it will motivate them at least a little.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. NO THANKS TO YOU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218130006#post36

You attacked me, and others, for suggesting that people in churches that are out of true with their values (for instance, against same sex marriage) leave the church in favor of another church in keeping with their values.

You worked against encouraging that solution to this problem.

Good job.

[trotsky]

22. Well done, AC.

How someone can simultaneously cheer something that's leading to change, but scold and berate others who want to encourage that change, I'll never know.

But I do know I'm not going to let them bully others.

[phil89]

23. Wow good catch.

i can't seem to understand the double talk and double standards.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. It was particularly upsetting because I went out of my way to specify 'find another', not 'abandon'

faith. I wasn't encouraging people who were members of churches with noxious values to leave faith in favor of atheism, I was encouraging them to simply find another church with better values. For Catholics, I had suggested the Episcopalian church as an alternative. They are ideologically similar, having split off from the Catholic church in the first place, yet the E church is inclusive and open to same sex marriage and other issues/values that might be more desirable to a progressive catholic.

There are options. People can vote with dollars, and with their feet. And they are. It wasn't even a religious/non-religious issue.

And yet I 'had no business' suggesting it.

Very interesting double standard indeed. And further compounding the double standard problem, that poster has opinions on what sort of atheist is the right sort, and which clique of leading atheist is the right sort or not, etc.

[phil89]

28. You did nothing wrong.

suggesting alternatives is a good thing when a group espouses oppressive beliefs. I have been told some odd things by people of faith here, like the claims that faith is rational, it's rational to believe something simply because it hasn't been disproven, and that believing in fairies is just as valid as not believing in fairies. Overcoming the defensiveness is a challenge.

[underpants]

20. Yes as usual Jabber the Nut has it a** backwards

[tanyev]

11. LOL. And when was the last time he set foot in a church building?

Weddings don't count.

[trotsky]

12. Do you think he's not a Christian? n/t

[Mariana]

13. Has he ever publicly identified as a Christian?

His audience are primarily the hateful rightwing variety of Christian, so of course his performance is geared toward telling them what they want to hear. I have no idea if he is Christian in real life.

[trotsky]

15. "Limbaugh was raised and considers himself a Methodist."

http://hollowverse.com/rush-limbaugh/

My fear is that we head into dark territory and horrible bigotry when we assume nasty people can't be religious and must be non-believers/atheists.

[Mariana]

34. Thank you. I didn't know if he was Christian or not.

There's no shortage of sincere Christians who are thoroughly rotten people, and it is a bit scary how many people will assert that a rotten person can't possibly be a Christian.

[tanyev]

16. I'm sure he self-identifies as a Christian.

I'm just saying it's disingenuous for someone who's not actively involved in a church to whine about the decline of Christianity.

[trotsky]

17. Lots of people consider themselves Christian but don't go to, or aren't active in a church.

The person who started this thread believes quite strongly that many people aren't leaving religion or their belief, they're just leaving churches.

[tanyev]

18. And that's fine, but then they shouldn't whine about the supposed "decline in Christianity".

I attend church fairly regularly, but I spend absolutely no time worrying about the "decline of Christianity".

[trotsky]

19. Why not?

It's his show, he can whine about whatever he wants. In fact I think that's all he does on it!

[cbayer]

14. Great question.

He considers himself Methodist, but they disavowed him after his comments about Sandra Fluke (also Methodist)

He's considers himself a spokesperson for the religious right, even though he doesn't share their religious views.

He's a showman, no more and no less.

[Mariana]

36. Exactly. His shows are performances.

His job is to get a whole bunch of people to tune in to his show so they'll listen to the ads. He'll say whatever he thinks they want to hear in order to accomplish that goal.

[cbayer]

37. Completely agree.

Those who thinks he is sincere about anything are fools…. and his target audience, lol.

[tularetom]

26. I wish these assholes would make up their minds

I just read another thread where Bill O'Reilly blames "rap music" for christianity's decline.

[cbayer]

29. It's all the same to them - black, gay, muslim

They are all responsible.

[samsingh]

30. being black or gay is not a choice

[TlalocW]

31. OR IS IT?

No, I guess it's not. Never mind.

Was there an age breakdown on this report because I think we've all seen other reports that say that the Millenials are leaving/choosing other churches or just losing their religion (that's them in the corner, that's them in the spotlight) in general, and it has a lot to do with how loud the more assholish churches are about gays.

TlalocW

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. Why do people keep saying that?

and it has a lot to do with how loud the more assholish churches are about gays.

It's short, succinct, and looks good on a bumper sticker, but I wouldn't put much stock in that sentiment. Sociologists have been poring over this issue for decades, and it is very likely declines in religiosity have more to do with high mobility and increased availability of secular social services than how the churches view homosexuality, specifically.

I mean, come on. Church attendance was higher twenty years ago. Were churches any less loud or fervent in their opposition to homosexuality then?

[trotsky]

35. "high mobility and increased availability of secular social services"

To my knowledge, I don't think the churches of Europe have ever harped on TEH GAYZ like American ones have, yet their church attendance rates are even lower and atheism rates even higher than ours. So that would tend to support your point.

[cbayer]

38. Actually there is data to support that some of the drift is due to

disagreement with their churches on social issues, and particularly on the issue of GLBT civil rights.

In particular, GLBT people are leaving churches they feel are not welcoming, but non-GLBT people are also leaving because of this issue.

http://religiondispatches.org/pew-confirms-lgbt-rejection-of-religion-why-thats-a-good-thing/
http://publicreligion.org/2014/03/leaving-religion-lgbt-issues/#.VVOySkvtHXl
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/millennials-gay-unaffiliated-church-religion_n_4856094.html

So maybe people keep saying that because it is true.

Churches weren't any more fervent in their GLBT opposition 20 years ago, but they have not moved ahead as the general public has. People in general are way more supportive of GLBT civil rights than they were 20 years.

[Act_of_Reparation]

39. You crack me up.

[div class="excerpt" style="border:1px solid black; border-radius:10px; background-color:aliceblue;"]Concerning the choice to be religiously unaffiliated, there are many areas that remain available for future inquiry. The quantitative findings from our study and previous studies could be informed and explained by use of qualitative research on religious nones. Lack of religious affiliation could also be used as a predictor, allowing for comparisons with people who are religiously affiliated on social and political issues. We suspect that on many political issues, especially those surrounding the family and sexuality, this distinction would prove meaningful. Our models also indicate that the association between age and claiming no religion is attenuated by the inclusion of variables measuring social networks and socialization, a finding that deserves further exploration in order to better understand the relationship between age and lack of religious preference.

"The Nones: Social Characteristics of the Religiously Unaffiliated"
Joseph O. Baker and Buster G. Smith
Social Forces
Vol. 87, No. 3 (Mar., 2009) pp. 1251-1263

[hr]

Now, let's get something straight here: none of the "data" you provide actually say what you say they are saying. Still with me?

The Pew study simply concludes that gays are better represented in non-Christian religions than in Christianity and that millennials tend to be less religious than previous generations. They venture no guess as to why that is.

The second study, on marriage equality, is a public opinion poll. While useful for gauging attitudes, opinion polls are problematic in that what people think is not necessarily true.

The third study actually posits three possible explanations for the "Rise of the Nones", which the HuffPo must have not realized when they titled their article: "One-Third Of Millennials Who Left Their Religion Did It Because Of Anti-Gay Policies: Survey"

Nothing in these polls addresses the obvious chicken or the egg problem: whether or not the church is driving people away with its attitudes, or that its attitudes are simply making it easier for a generation of young people already predisposed towards non-religion to walk away.

As the Baker and Smith article notes, the generational divide is attenuated by "social networks and socialization". So, obviously, the issue is a bit more complicated than one issue.

But yeah, quote the HuffPo to your heart's content, reputable peer-reviewed publication that it is.

[cbayer]

40. I wish I could say the same, but….

Now, let's get something straight here:

Clearly the issue is much more than one issue and I never made the case that it was only due to one issue.

You took the position that there was not validity to this being a factor. I presented evidence that it was a factor, but clearly it is complicated.

Still with me?

Doubt it.

[cbayer]

32. I know that. So what?

Do you think bigotry against muslims is ok because you think it's a choice?

I can't imagine what other point you might be trying to make here.

[Arugula Latte]

41. All he has to do is shut down the Internet and these whippersnappers will stop comparing notes

about how there's no evidence for supernatural workings.

[cbayer]

44. Actually, there is no evidence to support that, though

I won't deny that it may play a role.

[Major Nikon]

42. When you preach hate from the pulpit, people tend to vote with their feet

[cbayer]

43. Agreed and I think that is what is happening in some areas.