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SamG

(535 posts)
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:33 PM Apr 2012

What is the purpose of religion? An open question.

What is the purpose of religion? An open question.

That's it! Nothing more.

Please respond, those of you that see a purpose, and I would respectfully ask those who are NOT religious to just read the posts, and let those who are believers tell us the purpose of religion. We should be open to respecting and learning from those who claim to know.

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What is the purpose of religion? An open question. (Original Post) SamG Apr 2012 OP
Organized religion? Cirque du So-What Apr 2012 #1
I am not religious Politicalboi Apr 2012 #2
It answers otherwise unanswerable questions and creates a set of rules for operating a society OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #3
For some it creates the hope that those they don't like are suffering for eternity.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #4
In Christianity, it's a duality OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #8
You forgot The God of the gaps.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #9
No, no, no.. nowadays kids worship at Aero & A/F OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #13
It answers otherwise unanswerable questions? Like what, exactly? cleanhippie Apr 2012 #14
Most religions attempt to answer the following FAQs OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #17
The question is, do they fit the definition of "answers" in the same way we mean darkstar3 Apr 2012 #19
That's where the whole "faith" thing comes in. OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #20
Exactly, and faith is not an answer. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #22
Some see the world in a different way OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #55
Again, that's not an answer. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #57
What is the square root of -1? OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #60
And no one calls it an "answer". darkstar3 Apr 2012 #62
I think you'll find math teachers who call it an "answer" OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #64
It's tama Apr 2012 #65
By your definition then, "faith" is simply making up what you want to believe and leaving it at that cleanhippie Apr 2012 #25
Faith is only self delusion if used to answer a question that already has an answer OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #54
And yet have failed miserably to answer even a single one. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #24
Do you really want to spend time dwelling on what happens to lost loved ones after they die? OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #31
I spend no time dwelling on it, as the answer has already been found. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #32
Kinda back to the old if you cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or touch ... thing again humblebum Apr 2012 #36
Nope. That's a straw man you're attacking. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #37
So then. You are saying that empiricism has little to do with science? humblebum Apr 2012 #40
No, your reductio ad absurdum has little to do with science. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #41
It is the very basis of science. nt humblebum Apr 2012 #43
Perhaps you unfamiliar with reductio ad absurdum? darkstar3 Apr 2012 #44
I think perhaps you are unfamiliar with the role of observation, forming hypotheses, and humblebum Apr 2012 #46
No. Not at all. I have extensive training in the scientific method. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #47
"Your claim regarding the 5 senses has nothing to do with the scientific method" ??? humblebum Apr 2012 #48
Are you familiar with the concept of fallacy? darkstar3 Apr 2012 #51
Quite familiar with it, and I do not recognize it as applicable here. You are humblebum Apr 2012 #58
Identifying fallacy is clearly not something in which you are interested. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #61
Nor which you are an expert at. humblebum Apr 2012 #63
Don't look now, but you have something on your face. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #69
The fact is that many people give credence to experiential knowledge AlbertCat Apr 2012 #88
Depends tama Apr 2012 #94
So was it "you" AlbertCat Apr 2012 #96
So the body tama Apr 2012 #97
You have no way of knowing that, unless of course humblebum Apr 2012 #102
The physical body decays. We don't know what hapens to the conscious being within the body OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #52
I do not disagree with you, other than to say that while it ATTEMPTS to answer... cleanhippie Apr 2012 #70
We don't know what hapens to the conscious being within the body AlbertCat Apr 2012 #89
You just hit on what I consider to be the worst aspect of religion. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #33
That's one way to look at it OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #49
I just think we shouldn't stop looking. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #50
Fair enough OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #53
You just hit on what I consider to be the worst aspect of religion. AlbertCat Apr 2012 #84
It answers otherwise unanswerable questions AlbertCat Apr 2012 #83
In the U.S. religion has two purposes: 1) To provide a "neighborhood" since we don't have Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #5
In the U.S. religion has two purposes: AlbertCat Apr 2012 #85
Wait a minute, then mine are #3 and #4. :) nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #101
Provide an agreed upon structure for spiritality TrogL Apr 2012 #6
Please tell us more about "an agreed upon structure for spirituality" SamG Apr 2012 #12
To be more specific TrogL Apr 2012 #81
Just what makes a "qualified theologian" qualified in the first place? cleanhippie Apr 2012 #15
A "qualified theologian"? Isn't that like a qualified astrologer or something? Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #75
Only to a bigot nt Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #76
That word, I don't think you know what it means. n/t Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #77
... opiate69 Apr 2012 #78
Did I miss something? darkstar3 Apr 2012 #79
You have missed s whole era! Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #82
You have missed s whole era! AlbertCat Apr 2012 #86
Prove it. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #98
I'm making the distinction between a full-blown theological degree and some quack from Bible College TrogL Apr 2012 #80
Yeah, I still can't take it too seriously, its like a full blown degree in UFOlogy... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #110
It is a tool to manipulate the masses by quelling fears, some of which are rhett o rick Apr 2012 #7
Historically, it was the means for man to keep control over society. Dawson Leery Apr 2012 #10
Historically, it was the means for man to keep control over society. AlbertCat Apr 2012 #87
Emotional predictability. nt rrneck Apr 2012 #11
Yet in reality, it has been nothing but emotional UNpredictability. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #16
How so? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #23
There is no telling how a religious believers will react emotionally from one to the next. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #27
I dunno about that. They seem to fuck up pretty consistently. rrneck Apr 2012 #35
The emotional reactions tama Apr 2012 #66
As is the verbal vomit of the philisophical bullshit artists. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #68
It's a good living for the clergy. FarCenter Apr 2012 #18
To make little kids quit asking questions and behave izquierdista Apr 2012 #21
I think of religion as an emergent behavioral phenomenon, not as a thing created with a purpose Silent3 Apr 2012 #26
I'm neither religious or spiritual but I can objectively understand multiple purposes for religion independentpiney Apr 2012 #28
It probably springs from the human need to make sense of the universe customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #29
I think you might want to make a distinction between belief in God and belief in religion. Fresh_Start Apr 2012 #30
To dupe the gulliable out of what meager funds they have. MrSlayer Apr 2012 #34
Once in grade school, a student who almost never spoke up in class waved his dimbear Apr 2012 #38
To help rulers control the masses. Odin2005 Apr 2012 #39
Since our resident religion haters did not have the decency or the courtesy Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #42
This a forum, not a safe space. All voices are welcome, darkstar3 Apr 2012 #45
The OP did say "I would respectfully ask those who are NOT religious to just read the posts" OmahaBlueDog Apr 2012 #56
And as you'll notice, I didn't answer the OP. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #59
Of course this is a "group" which acts like a forum, Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #73
And bigotry has a meaning you cheapen every time you misuse it like that. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #74
And yet you failed to respect his request. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #107
You're right and it's disappointing that some ignored the request. mr blur Apr 2012 #67
Correct! And there is plenty of bigotry wrapped in prayer. Plenty!!nt Thats my opinion Apr 2012 #105
Translation: "the mean ol' non-believers didn't give you an answer I find acceptable." cleanhippie Apr 2012 #71
Where is YOUR decency or honor? YOU failed to respect his request. cleanhippie Apr 2012 #108
To give us connection with the infinite and unknown. /nt Festivito Apr 2012 #72
If it's unknown, how do you connect with it? laconicsax Apr 2012 #90
For a start, accepting a word for it and using it in a sentence as you just did. /nt Festivito Apr 2012 #103
That really isn't connecting with anything. laconicsax Apr 2012 #106
I say concepts and their associated words connect. Do you say they do not connect? Festivito Apr 2012 #109
To give us connection with the infinite and unknown. AlbertCat Apr 2012 #91
Science renders unknowns into knowns, but still leaves more unknown. Festivito Apr 2012 #104
What is the purpose of religion? AlbertCat Apr 2012 #92
We should be open to respecting and learning from those who claim to know. AlbertCat Apr 2012 #93
You have misread this. The OP was a repeating troll who poses as an extreme atheist. cbayer Apr 2012 #95
Good riddance. darkstar3 Apr 2012 #99
Watch for him. He will be back and I promise you, he is not friend to the atheists here cbayer Apr 2012 #100

Cirque du So-What

(25,908 posts)
1. Organized religion?
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:38 PM
Apr 2012

I'd say it's a tool used by the elite to make those with nothing feel better about it. After all, the reward lies in heaven, yunno. I make the distinction between religion and spirituality, which I consider a step toward self-actualization.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
2. I am not religious
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:40 PM
Apr 2012

But, I think religion is a hope for humanity. If you feel like you may break God's law, some will do the right thing for humanity to have civility. Religion makes death for some to take easier too. To erase the fear of death. See that wasn't so bad.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
3. It answers otherwise unanswerable questions and creates a set of rules for operating a society
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:40 PM
Apr 2012

For many, it creates a hope that oved ones who have gone on to whatever comes next are in a better place, and that we might see them again.

For some, it creates the hope that the evil are suffering unending torment. For others, it creates the hope that all of us will have our transgressions forgiven.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
4. For some it creates the hope that those they don't like are suffering for eternity..
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:43 PM
Apr 2012

Sentenced to that punishment by a just and loving god..

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
8. In Christianity, it's a duality
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:57 PM
Apr 2012

There is the God of wrath, but there is also the God of mercy.

There is the God that punishes the wicked, and there is the God that we continually beg to "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

There is the God of "Grace": those who have His grace manifest that quality in their daily lives. Those with His grace are the only ones saved. There is the God of "Works": those who performs, of their own free will, acts that aid the sick, suffering, and poor work to cleanse their own sin, and earn salvation.

Confused yet?

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
14. It answers otherwise unanswerable questions? Like what, exactly?
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:33 PM
Apr 2012

Unless you mean it can give AN answer, meaning any answer, right or wrong, just as long as its an answer?


And if that is the case, anything can provide AN answer, especially if it need not be factual or realistic.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
17. Most religions attempt to answer the following FAQs
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:44 PM
Apr 2012

How did we get here?
What happens when I die?
Is there a purpose to all of this?
Will I meet my loved ones and ancestors in the next life?

There are a lot of religons. Each has its unique answers to these (and other) questions.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
19. The question is, do they fit the definition of "answers" in the same way we mean
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:53 PM
Apr 2012

when we ask people for "answers" to other questions like "How does a flat screen TV work?"

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
20. That's where the whole "faith" thing comes in.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:03 PM
Apr 2012

We know how a flat screen works. We can explain how to create one and fix one. We don't spend a lot of time pondering the subject, because there are books and websites that contain that information.

What about the question, "What happens to our concious self after we die?" We have no real idea what happens when we die. If we could somehow die, roam around whatever comes next for a few years, and then come back, we could answer that question. Right now, we can't. By providing simple answers to unanswerable questions like "what happens after we die", religon frees adherents from spending time pondering that question, and allows them to spend more time in more fruitful pursuits.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
55. Some see the world in a different way
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:44 PM
Apr 2012

Some believe that all answers to all questions can be found through the application of logic and scientific method. I personally am a big fan of logic and science. It has brought us the high quality of medicine, computer technology, accounting, aeronautics, and personal appliances we all love.

Does it answer the question "Will I get to meet my friend who was murdered again after I die?" No, science doesn't answer that question. Religon answers that question ("perhaps&quot . Only my passing from this earth will answer that question for certain.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
57. Again, that's not an answer.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:50 PM
Apr 2012

When a question is difficult, making up a supposition is not an answer, and for some it is simply not better than "I don't know."

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
60. What is the square root of -1?
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:59 PM
Apr 2012

It's a difficult question. We don't know the answer. We suppose the value is "i".

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
62. And no one calls it an "answer".
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 10:10 PM
Apr 2012

Imaginary and complex numbers work as tools to help us understand and predict non-linear systems of growth or flow. No one who uses them considers them an "answer," but rather an assumption (or supposition) that makes the current analysis easier.

Now compare that to the "answers" you've been talking about. When they encourage us only to stop searching, what good are they? And if they are supposition, then why call them "answers"?

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
64. I think you'll find math teachers who call it an "answer"
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:16 PM
Apr 2012

especially if the problem is "what is the square root of -1?"

Some would say there is an answer. There is no square root for -1; the answer is "null". Just because there is a square root for 1 does not mean there is a square root for -1. Others have used "i" as a supposition - a faith based answer to an unknowable. In this instance, we suppose the answer to be "i" because the answer works.

If you think searching for an better answer than "i" is worthwhile, by all means do so. The mathbook says the answer is "i". That's good enough for me.

...and now, on to why we didn't decend from monkeys

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
65. It's
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 01:40 AM
Apr 2012

both i and -i which have qualitative difference, and that's how you get complex plane and number theoretical anatomy of 2D plane. There would not be Riemannian manifolds and theory of relativity without the imaginary number.

You can derive the answer also from Euler's identity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
25. By your definition then, "faith" is simply making up what you want to believe and leaving it at that
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:35 PM
Apr 2012

Thats not an answer, thats self-delusion.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
54. Faith is only self delusion if used to answer a question that already has an answer
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:35 PM
Apr 2012

My flat screen television is broken. I could pray for divine intervention. That would be acting on faith alone. In all probability, my television would remain broken. I could go to the internet, and look up technical specifications for my television, or the number of a good repair technician, I am likely to find an answer that already exists to my question.

I could combine faith and practicality: I could find a flat screen television repairman at my church, mosque, synagouge, or temple.

Some people want answers to questions that cannot be answered scientifically. People often look to religon to answer questions such as "Why does Dick Cheney live on with a donor heart while my Uncle died of pneumonia at 20?"

Again, I'm attempting to answer the question put forth by the OP. I'm not attempting to advocate any particular faith position here.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
24. And yet have failed miserably to answer even a single one.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:33 PM
Apr 2012

Religion has never answered a question, that cannot otherwise be answered, with any accuracy, continuity, or factuality. It's all just supposition, which when looking for an actual answer, is worthless.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
31. Do you really want to spend time dwelling on what happens to lost loved ones after they die?
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 06:01 PM
Apr 2012

Do experiments? Engage in research? Spend countless hours speculating?

..or would you prefer to think "they are in Heaven with our creator"?

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
32. I spend no time dwelling on it, as the answer has already been found.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 06:05 PM
Apr 2012

Nothing happens, other than a steady decay. I don't need to "think" anything. It's reality, it's the way it is, it's factual, for everyone.


Now, unless you have some evidence that "they are in Heaven with our creator" that you would care to share?

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
36. Kinda back to the old if you cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or touch ... thing again
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 07:17 PM
Apr 2012

aren't we. The fact is that many people give credence to experiential knowledge, intuition, stories of others' experiences, and yes - reason, etc. ( atheists and skeptics really haven't cornered the market on reason) in making their about belief or unbelief. We all know that "steady decay" is usually the physical result, but not all of us recognize that as the end.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
37. Nope. That's a straw man you're attacking.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 07:21 PM
Apr 2012

The fact is that your five senses meme has as little to do with science as does religion.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
46. I think perhaps you are unfamiliar with the role of observation, forming hypotheses, and
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:18 PM
Apr 2012

experimentation. That's essentially what you are classifying as reductio ad absurdum.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
47. No. Not at all. I have extensive training in the scientific method.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:25 PM
Apr 2012

I'm referring to your continued meme posted in #36 here and posted again and again throughout this site. That is a fallacious statement under the heading of reductio ad absurdum. Your claim regarding the 5 senses has nothing to do with the scientific method, and since your use of fallacy has been identified, there's really no point in carrying the farce further.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
48. "Your claim regarding the 5 senses has nothing to do with the scientific method" ???
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:53 PM
Apr 2012

Are you familiar with the definition of empiricism? And do you realize that observation (by utilizing the senses) is a key component of the SM?

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
58. Quite familiar with it, and I do not recognize it as applicable here. You are
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:53 PM
Apr 2012

using it as a straw man. Restating the term "empiricism" as "observation using the 5 senses" is nothing more than a valid simplification of the term.

"Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience." Add a rational component, and voila, you have Logical Empiricism (framework for the Scientific Method). So, yes, empiricism is the attainment of knowledge by observation utilizing the 5 senses.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
63. Nor which you are an expert at.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 10:15 PM
Apr 2012

Reducing something to its least common denominator for the sake of simplicity and emphasis is not the same as a "reductio ad absurdum" fallacy.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
88. The fact is that many people give credence to experiential knowledge
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:02 PM
Apr 2012

what is "experiential knowledge"?


Anyway, the only reason you are aware of anything, including "intuition, stories of others' experiences, and yes - reason, etc." is because your brain is functioning.

When it stops, you are not aware of anything. Obviously, being dead is just like it was before you were born.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
94. Depends
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:33 PM
Apr 2012

on the definition of 'knowledge'. Experiencing 'now' as is and happens without relating the moment of 'now' to other moments (in past or future) is esperiencing, and what Aristotle calls gnosis. Epistemic (again, in aristotelian terminology) or scientific knowledge involves drawing empirical conclusions and generalisations from comparisons between more than on moment.

Analytical knowledge of making strict divisions and definitions over phenomenological world does not have a good analytical definition of phenomenology of awareness and/or consciousness to begin with, which raises the question what kind of "knowledge" is the claim that they reduce to brain and brain alone.

From what we have learned from anesthesiology shows e.g. that when neo-cortex has been inactivated, patients (deeper brain areas? what?) can and do still react to environment and verbal instructions, but do not have access to conscious memories from those events. So was it "you" responding to environment during that period of inactive neo-cortex, or are "you" just the property of consciouss memories? What is the good analytical definition of "you"?

And what if evidence from NDE and memories of other lives is not outright rejected, but accepted as relevant for study of consciousness and awareness?

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
96. So was it "you"
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:31 PM
Apr 2012

Yes it was.

Because even when "you" are wide awake... you are completely unaware of a myriad of things going on in your own body to keep "you" alive. Your consciousness is not in charge and "you" are actually only aware of anything.... anything at all.... after the even happens.


And nobody worth listening to take memories of other lives seriously.

And NDE's can all be explained without invoking souls, gods or any other supernatural mumbo jumbo.

 

tama

(9,137 posts)
97. So the body
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:55 PM
Apr 2012

can be aware and sentient even when some level of consciousness/awareness has been shut dow? And personal pronouns like me and you are rather just linguistic categories and thought patterns? Very good, these thought patterns are in complete agreement. So what about the body, does it consist of only material objects? What about e.g. electromagnetic fields and their role in sentient experiences?

PS: perhaps you don't consider Carl Sagan worh listening?
PPS: If souls, gods etc are defined as supernatural mumbo jumbo, then sure, let's use other terminology

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
102. You have no way of knowing that, unless of course
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 09:49 PM
Apr 2012

you have some experiential knowledge of the fact.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
52. The physical body decays. We don't know what hapens to the conscious being within the body
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:09 PM
Apr 2012

You claim to know, but you don't. I don't know. Neither of us have experienced death. In any event, I attempted to answer the question posed by the OP, which was "What is the purpose of religon." I believe that most faith traditions, whether they are Eastern, Western, or Native American, answer the question "What happens after we die?" with an answer that indicates we'll go somewhere pleasant -- paradise, heaven, a happy hunting ground, Mt. Olympus, Nirvana, Las Vegas, etc.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
70. I do not disagree with you, other than to say that while it ATTEMPTS to answer...
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 08:54 AM
Apr 2012

it fails miserably in actually GIVING an answer.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
89. We don't know what hapens to the conscious being within the body
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:07 PM
Apr 2012

Yes we do... because you cannot have consciousness without a BRAIN that is FUNCTIONING.


This Descartian dualism is a myth. Tho' consciousness is an elusive and interesting phenomenon, it requires a working brain to exist.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
33. You just hit on what I consider to be the worst aspect of religion.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 06:06 PM
Apr 2012

Placation leads to a lack of curiosity, which leads to a lack of exploration.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
49. That's one way to look at it
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:53 PM
Apr 2012

Another way to look at it is that a question like "will I see my loved ones after I die" is unanswerable. By being provided an answer, you are free to solve questions for which answers can be found (like how to repair a flat screen TV).

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
53. Fair enough
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:11 PM
Apr 2012

As I stated in another response, I am merely endeavoring to answer the question posed by the OP.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
84. You just hit on what I consider to be the worst aspect of religion.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:49 PM
Apr 2012

Faith is the END of inquiry.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
83. It answers otherwise unanswerable questions
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:45 PM
Apr 2012

It doesn't answer anything... except with made up stuff.

What "unanswerable" question does it answer?

Why we're here?

Nope

What's our purpose?

Nope

What happens after death?

Nope

How the universe came about?

Nope

Why we suffer?

Nope

Where the $$$ you just put in the collection plate goes?


Nope


Saying "god did it" doesn't answer a thing.

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
5. In the U.S. religion has two purposes: 1) To provide a "neighborhood" since we don't have
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:48 PM
Apr 2012

neighborhoods any longer due to the country being fully sprawled. It provides a more easily accessible form of socialization. (I don't call work socialization for many reasons I won't go into here).

2) To give people a false peace of mind in a country where there is no peace of mind and no financial security.

TrogL

(32,818 posts)
6. Provide an agreed upon structure for spiritality
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:55 PM
Apr 2012

What scares me about undenominational "Bible churches" is there is no oversight from qualified theologians which is how they end up with some of their batshit beliefs

 

SamG

(535 posts)
12. Please tell us more about "an agreed upon structure for spirituality"
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:14 PM
Apr 2012

Is spirituality in need of structure? Must that structure be agreed-upon?



What is "oversight from qualified theologians"? Does this mean all other theologians are not qualified to be so?

What are "some of their some of their batshit beliefs"? How would we know which beliefs are legitimate and which are "some of their batshit beliefs"?


Again, what is the purpose of religion?

TrogL

(32,818 posts)
81. To be more specific
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 12:28 PM
Apr 2012

structure:

-Rite
-agreed upon text/translation (eg. textus receptus)
-dogma/statement of faith

"qualified":

-as stated below, I'm basically excluding graduates of Bible Colleges because their curriculum lack intellectual rigor

"batshit beliefs"

Basically, if it ain't in the Bible, it ain't true (noting translation difficulties). The Roman Catholic church has some examples including...

-infallability of the Pope
-Mary Magdelene is a prostitute
-Mary continued to be a virgin (even after giving birth at least twice)

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
79. Did I miss something?
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 09:51 PM
Apr 2012

I must have missed the day when theology became more than a realm of completely divergent ideas with no method of reconciliation or verification. I must have missed the day when theologies from completely different faiths with completely different answers to the exact same questions suddenly agreed with each other, thus creating a field of study applicable beyond a single sect of a single fork of a single religious family...

And I also must have missed the day when calling someone a bigot was acceptable on DU. Perhaps next we'll see you call someone a "fucking asshole."

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
86. You have missed s whole era!
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:53 PM
Apr 2012

Like you have missed the boat?


Theology is just arguing whether Santa comes down the chimney head first or feet first.



Pointing this out is not bigotry.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
98. Prove it.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 06:05 PM
Apr 2012

Show me the result of such unification beyond a sect of a fork of a family. I certainly don't see them in your process theology.

TrogL

(32,818 posts)
80. I'm making the distinction between a full-blown theological degree and some quack from Bible College
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 12:20 PM
Apr 2012

Theologians approach sacred texts through analysis to eventually reach conclusions. The Bible College folks mine them for clobber verses.

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
110. Yeah, I still can't take it too seriously, its like a full blown degree in UFOlogy...
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 03:03 AM
Apr 2012

if such a thing existed, it probably does, sadly.

The problem is this, their conclusions have no facts, no consensus, no testability. Its subjective and largely dependent on the perception and religious background of the theologian in question.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
7. It is a tool to manipulate the masses by quelling fears, some of which are
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:55 PM
Apr 2012

perpetrated by the religions themselves. I think FoxedUp News is a religion.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
87. Historically, it was the means for man to keep control over society.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:56 PM
Apr 2012

Which is a government.

Religion is just ancient government.

And nowadays you can see that right here in the USA. The effects of which are dreadful and counterproductive.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
27. There is no telling how a religious believers will react emotionally from one to the next.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:36 PM
Apr 2012

That IS unpredictability.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
35. I dunno about that. They seem to fuck up pretty consistently.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 07:01 PM
Apr 2012

I think as long as you know how the one that gets the money thinks they're not too hard to read.

 

izquierdista

(11,689 posts)
21. To make little kids quit asking questions and behave
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:10 PM
Apr 2012

Daddy, why is the sky blue? Because God made it that way.

Mommy, why do I have to eat carrots? Because Jesus cries when little girls won't eat all their dinner.

Uncle Bob, why are there rainbows? Well, you see, there was this guy named Noah who lived a long time ago.....

Silent3

(15,148 posts)
26. I think of religion as an emergent behavioral phenomenon, not as a thing created with a purpose
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:35 PM
Apr 2012

Specific religions, or rules thereof, might indeed be consciously constructed to serve intended purposes: improving social order, obtaining (hoped for) life after death, lining the pockets of the clergy, etc.

Those constructs, however, merely exploit the fact that "religion happens", regardless of whether anyone sets out to achieve specific purposes.

independentpiney

(1,510 posts)
28. I'm neither religious or spiritual but I can objectively understand multiple purposes for religion
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:42 PM
Apr 2012

on the social and individual level. Ninian Smart and Joseph Campbell provide good explanations imo

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
29. It probably springs from the human need to make sense of the universe
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:55 PM
Apr 2012

and quickly gets perverted into a means of social control as religious organizations grow and thrive. Once the state gets its hands on religion, then it becomes a truly oppressive force. The Founding Fathers seemed to recognize this.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
30. I think you might want to make a distinction between belief in God and belief in religion.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 05:55 PM
Apr 2012

Belief in God seems to fill some deep seated emotional need dealing with things which we can't understand and can't control.

Unfortunately I believe that belief in religion is basically falling prey to some huckster or other who represents themselve as being closer or better able to interpret god's desires. Since we had 3 different people who all claimed that God told them to run for President this cycle, we can safely interpret that most peoples' perception that they are hearing the word of God is erroneous.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
34. To dupe the gulliable out of what meager funds they have.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 06:07 PM
Apr 2012

The greatest scam in the history of the world.

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
38. Once in grade school, a student who almost never spoke up in class waved his
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 07:52 PM
Apr 2012

hand excitedly and grandly, begging to be called on. The pleased teacher did call him, and he responded proudly "I don't know."

I, on the other hand, do know. Sorry I'm forbidden to answer.

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)
42. Since our resident religion haters did not have the decency or the courtesy
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:03 PM
Apr 2012

to honor your request, those of us you asked to respond will hardly lower ourselves into that pit of bigotry. If you want to know how I would answer, write me on our mail site and i will be happy to respond. To ask for simple respect is too much for the already prejudiced.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
45. This a forum, not a safe space. All voices are welcome,
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:08 PM
Apr 2012

and I'll thank you to stop telling people otherwise.

OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
56. The OP did say "I would respectfully ask those who are NOT religious to just read the posts"
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:47 PM
Apr 2012

I will not presume to judge whether you are religious. Only you can know that.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
59. And as you'll notice, I didn't answer the OP.
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:53 PM
Apr 2012

I answered some very specific points from you and two others that went far beyond the scope of the question in the OP.

And asking people on an open forum not to post is pretty much universally accepted as bad form.

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)
73. Of course this is a "group" which acts like a forum,
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 05:44 PM
Apr 2012

and of course all opinions are welcome.
But there is a difference between respecting a poster's request and not respecting it.
Courteous people know the difference. Bigots do not.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
107. And yet you failed to respect his request.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 07:53 PM
Apr 2012

But there is a difference between respecting a poster's request and not respecting it.
Courteous people know the difference. Bigots do not.



I guess that makes you a bigot?
 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
67. You're right and it's disappointing that some ignored the request.
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 05:52 AM
Apr 2012

However it's given you the opportunity to sling some more mud and feel important, so I expect you're happy.

You know, for someone so enlightened you're incredibly mean-spirited.

 

laconicsax

(14,860 posts)
106. That really isn't connecting with anything.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 05:45 PM
Apr 2012

Saying "leprechauns guard a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" doesn't allow you to connect to leprechauns because leprechauns don't exist.

Festivito

(13,452 posts)
109. I say concepts and their associated words connect. Do you say they do not connect?
Thu Apr 19, 2012, 12:27 AM
Apr 2012


Two conceptualizations of what is considered the idea of a leprechaun are thereby connected by both being called the same name. Being grouped under the same moniker is a connection.
 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
91. To give us connection with the infinite and unknown.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:18 PM
Apr 2012

Science does that. And in a much more interesting and useful way.

For instance, science concretely shows us that we are all made of stuff from exploding stars. As Sagan put it "We are made of star stuff". That's as connected to the universe as you can get!

And science also shows us concretely that we are all from South Africa and related, not only to each other, but to every living thing on the planet from Chimps, to bananas to bacteria.

Sing along! "Alle Menschen werden Bruder".... literally, in science!

Festivito

(13,452 posts)
104. Science renders unknowns into knowns, but still leaves more unknown.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 01:55 AM
Apr 2012

My father liked to note that he searched for big answers and all he found were bigger questions.

We are connected to our part of our Universe. But, our sun, our galaxy, our globule could be born, live and die completely unconnected to another distant set of lights out there. Yet, I just connected myself to them.

All men are brothers. More than that.

Deep inside there's a vision that time is nothing but space and between every minute and mile there within it somehow there's a beautiful place.
And it's all such a delicate balance, 'cause it takes just as much as it gives, but to live it is real and to love it is to feel that you're a part of what everything is.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
92. What is the purpose of religion?
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:21 PM
Apr 2012

To make money and consolidate power thru guilt and fear of death.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
93. We should be open to respecting and learning from those who claim to know.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:28 PM
Apr 2012

No we shouldn't! That's just being credulous!

Just claiming to know something is not enough for respect. If just claiming to know were enough, the court system would be joke. I hope you're never serving on a jury!!!!

You want respect? Earn it!


How can you type "An open question" and then restrict it? A little confused, aren't we?

I surmise you just wanted a feel good kumbaya thread that supported what you already believe. Forget it! The world is not like that.... even if religion tells you it's supposed to be like that...

You want a forum where everyone agrees? Try your local cult... or RW talk radio.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
95. You have misread this. The OP was a repeating troll who poses as an extreme atheist.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:07 PM
Apr 2012

He's been banned (again).

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
100. Watch for him. He will be back and I promise you, he is not friend to the atheists here
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 06:09 PM
Apr 2012

(or the glbt community or the black community or women).

Total troll

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