The “Atheist” Neo-Nazi Just Convicted of Triple Murder Was No Atheist

[DavidDvorkin]

In April of 2014, white supremacist Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr., also known as Frazier Glenn Cross, shot and killed a boy, the boy’s grandfather, and a woman near a Kansas Jewish community center while shouting “Heil Hitler!” In a dark twist of fate, all three victims were white Christians. This week, Miller was convicted of capital murder. At his trial, he said he “wanted to kill Jews, not people,” and responded to the verdict with “Sieg Heil” and a Nazi salute.

Miller, who ran for several offices including U.S. House and Senate, has been described as “one of the pioneers in the modern hate world” and “a central figure of the white power movement.”

CNN has reported that Miller is a neo-pagan who also “self-identified as an atheist,” who uses anti-Christian rhetoric.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/09/03/the-atheist-neo-nazi-just-convicted-of-triple-murder-was-no-atheist/

[rug]

1. How does it go . . . . why don't you take him at his word?

Who are we to say he's not what he professes?


NTS, etc., etc.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. Because there's no evidence that he ever claimed to be an atheist

Two others made that claim, and the evidence implies that they made it all up. He has variously described himself as a Christian and an Odinist.

Read the article.

[rug]

3. Do you think he's an Odinist?

[DavidDvorkin]

4. I have no idea

But if he says he is ...

[rug]

5. Circle completed.

If I have the inclination, I'll look for the source that states Miller self-identified as an atheist.

In the meantime . . . .

[DavidDvorkin]

6. No, the circle does not exist

The article quotes the man himself as saying he's an Odinist. The claim that he is a self-described atheist rests on the dubious claims of others and is not consistent with what is known of the occasion in question.

[rug]

7. So, why do you say you have no idea?

"He has variously described himself as a Christian and an Odinist."

Anything but atheist.

Why don't you accept he's simply a bigot? Or do you think Odin and/or Christ drove him to it?

[DavidDvorkin]

8. I have no interest in the rhetorical tangent you're using to evade the issue raised by the article

The point is clear. The claim that he is a self-described atheist seems to be very dubious, but it's used in the news report to discredit atheists. His history of describing himself as a Christian is deliberately ignored.

That's the point of the article and why I posted it.

Stick to the point.

[yeoman6987]

9. Who cares what he is. One thing we do know is he is a murderer

That enough.

[Lordquinton]

22. Because some people go out of their way to find an atheist doing something bad

and when they find one they hold them up as an example of every atheist. Then when it's revealed that the said offender isn't actually an atheist we get people (much like what you're doing here, actually) saying that it's not important what he believed, which is a complete reversal from what was said before.

[rug]

13. I'll take your word for it,

[AtheistCrusader]

21. That would be consistent with white supremacy.

They're big on Norse gods. vOv

[Goblinmonger]

10. I see no need to deny him that label.

Assholes can ge atheists, too.

[gcomeau]

12. But people who *believe in Odin* can't be atheists.

For rather obvious reasons.

[Goblinmonger]

16. So which one do we believe

That he is an atheist or that he believes in Odin?

Clearly the guy has some issues. Knowing whether he is an atheist or not seems to be the least of them.

[gcomeau]

18. He's only ever said the latter.

The claim he is an atheist is being made by other people second hand. Likely based on some dumbass understanding that he doesn't believe in "God" with a capital G and thus is an atheist!

So which would you think we should believe?

[Goblinmonger]

20. That article seems to indicate that.

If what is written is true, then, yes, he isn't an atheist. But I don't know that this is definitive.

[DavidDvorkin]

14. That's a nonsensical statement

This has nothing to do with denying him a label. It has everything to do with attempting to tar atheists by identifying a murderer as one without real evidence.

[Goblinmonger]

15. Seems like he doesn't know what he is.

I mean, maybe there is some level of making up that he claimed he is an atheist, but if that is true, he claims to be an atheist and not an atheist. So what I know about he really is?

[DavidDvorkin]

17. All we know for sure

based on his own words is that he has claimed, at different times, to be a Christian and an Odinist. It seems to me that one can't be both. We have no real reason to think that he ever claimed to be an atheist.

So if he doesn't know what he is, then the choice is between Christian and Odinist--two flavors of theism.

[Goblinmonger]

19. If it is true that he never claimed to be an atheist

(and I don't know if it is true or not based on this one article), then of course the label shouldn't be used.

But if he did use both labels, then who the hell knows.