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muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 05:06 AM Sep 2015

What is a "falsely universalist ideology"?

They were called out by the Roman Catholic pope at the UN:

This is the fifth time that a Pope has visited the United Nations. I follow in the footsteps of my predecessors Paul VI, in1965, John Paul II, in 1979 and 1995, and my most recent predecessor, now Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, in 2008. All of them expressed their great esteem for the Organization, which they considered the appropriate juridical and political response to this present moment of history, marked by our technical ability to overcome distances and frontiers and, apparently, to overcome all natural limits to the exercise of power. An essential response, inasmuch as technological power, in the hands of nationalistic or falsely universalist ideologies, is capable of perpetrating tremendous atrocities. I can only reiterate the appreciation expressed by my predecessors, in reaffirming the importance which the Catholic Church attaches to this Institution and the hope which she places in its activities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/transcript-pope-franciss-speech-to-the-un-general-assembly/2015/09/25/3dea72e8-6382-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html

Now, many would see the Catholic church as a "universalist ideology" - more or less by the definition of 'catholic', and 'church', and also by its structure and actions. So why did Francis claim other universalist ideologies are 'false', while presumably accepting his own as 'true'?

Are Catholics meant to see any other ideology that claim to have universal applicability as 'false'?
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What is a "falsely universalist ideology"? (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 OP
Translation:... NeoGreen Sep 2015 #1
Interesting question. trotsky Sep 2015 #2
I think he means Communism edhopper Sep 2015 #3
That's one. Igel Sep 2015 #4
Capitalism or freedom are stepping stones. Yorktown Sep 2015 #6
That's how I read it, but he could have meant Islam Yorktown Sep 2015 #5
He wants the bomb Lordquinton Sep 2015 #7

NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
1. Translation:...
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 08:11 AM
Sep 2015

..."My god is the True® universal god for all that are the best of humanity. Your god is just a puny faker who's only claim to fame is the ability to lift a special hammer and kill giants...or something like that..."

Plus I think the language in the statement is not only directed at other religions but also at the heart of the US Constitution: that all (wo)men are equal, and that power is derived from the people, not from (so called) divine authority. Both concepts are anathemas to the catholic church with their manufactured idea of sin and the useful idea of divine right.

The catholic church will only truly be happy if the Enlightenment's experiment with Democracy fails and we return to church monarchies which are subjugated/determined/controlled by divine authority (i.e. the church).

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
2. Interesting question.
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 08:44 AM
Sep 2015

It does sound a bit like the old "One True Church" nonsense rearing its ugly head once again.

edhopper

(33,575 posts)
3. I think he means Communism
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 08:49 AM
Sep 2015

He is praising the UN and saying the Catholic Church should and does always support it.
I don't think he was talking about other religions. It is not in his interest to point to atrocities by religions.
He says "falsely universalist" Obviously he doesn't think the Church is false, others might disagree.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
4. That's one.
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 07:26 PM
Sep 2015

I think he'd say neoliberalism is another, and capitalism in general is one.

We preach diversity, but we usually only mean a very narrow kind of diversity: We must all think the same, even as we are allowed slight differences in trivialities like food and language. We say that we're all alike, but when push comes to shove we actually mean everybody's really like us (if they'd just stop and think about it). We all want the same things and have the same values and, unlike (R) that put everything in dollar terms, we put everything in dollar terms; meanwhile, some decent research has shown that (R) and (D) tend to have differently stuctured and valenced value systems.

It's why we're blindsided by things like Russia and Hungary, by the failure of the Arab Spring and by the failure of China to embrace the "correct" values that we know they want because, well, they're sort of our values.

 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
6. Capitalism or freedom are stepping stones.
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 10:28 PM
Sep 2015

Not advocating greedy capitalism here.

Just saying it can be argued capitalism is strictly a tool. Wiki:

Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and, in some situations, fully competitive markets. In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which they exchange assets, goods, and services.

Then the tool is used in different political ways. Wiki again:
The degree of competition, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism.[6] Economists, political economists, and historians have adopted different perspectives in their analyses of capitalism and have recognized various forms of it in practice.
 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
5. That's how I read it, but he could have meant Islam
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 10:21 PM
Sep 2015

But then again, as you say, I don't think he thinks religions are false.

And, as you say, others might disagree.

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