Pope Francis: It’s aggressive narcissism to teach kids about safe sex and protection

[trotsky]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/04/11/pope-francis-its-aggressive-narcissism-to-teach-kids-about-safe-sex-and-protection

Pope Francis has claimed that teaching kids about safe sex “promotes narcissism” – and that transgender teens should be taught to “accept their own body as it was created”.

...

He added that sex education should be focussed on “modesty”. He added that schools must teach “respect and appreciation for differences” – but this doesn’t appear to extend to trans people.

...

“An appreciation of our body as male or female is also necessary for our own self-awareness in an encounter with others different from ourselves. In this way we can joyfully accept the specific gifts of another man or woman, the work of God the Creator, and find mutual enrichment.”

...

Elsewhere, in the document, the Pope says that gay people should receive “assistance” to bring them back to normality, and affirms there are “absolutely no grounds” for considering recognition of “homosexual unions”.

Please, someone start up the chorus about how "liberal" this pope is, how he's "changing the church," and being a "breath of fresh air!"

[JonathanRackham]

1. People love to believe half truths.

Sort of like peanut coating the contents of a litter box.

[thereismore]

2. Let's just say I have differences with the Pope. nt

[MADem]

3. Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh. He "invited Saint Bernard to Rome," doncha know!

Right to his house! They're gonna hang out and talk about shit! He's got to be a saint, because he can be in TWO PLACES at once!!!

He is The Way And The Light!!!

People who hated him yesterday have to love him today, because Berrrrrnie!

Seriously, though, the "strength" of Pope Francis's popularity doesn't lie in the fact that he has advocated or even MADE changes to any of the rules of his church, but that he's ripped the lid off what is actually a rule, and what isn't (answering questions like "Why did John Kerry and Ted Kennedy continue to take communion after divorce?" for example).

And he's also told the rank and file clergy to stop being assholes and worry less about what people do and more about helping people. That's pretty much all he's done.

It's one of those "Journey of a thousand miles" things. This nuance is completely unappreciated by people who have not studied his church, or people who are not members of his his church. And, for those who oppose religion of any sort, who deride it and find it foolish and not useful, it's just one more data point to use to mock something that some claim so earnestly to not care about.

[nichomachus]

4. Wait a minute

The Clinton smear of the day yesterday was that the pope didn't invite him.

That's the trouble when you're hip deep in smears, half truths, and outright lies. You lose track of them.

Maybe Hillary should set up a private server just to process the smears.

[murielm99]

8. MAdem's post was pointing out the hypocrisy

of many of the people here when it comes to the church.

And how is it a smear to say the pope did not invite Bernie? He DIDN'T invite him.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. That's funny.

Because to me it looked like a steaming pile of horseshit from a resident apologist who just flatly asserted that no one who isn't stupid or bigoted could possibly be dissatisfied with Pope Francis.

But obviously, I am mistaken.

So please, pray tell: how are "many of the people here" hypocritical about the church, and -- more importantly -- why are you dragging your GDP shitshow here?

[murielm99]

15. Yes, you are mistaken.

And rude and out of line. Of course, that is to be expected on the new DU.

Goodbye.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. Rude? Out of line?

But dragging personal quibbles from that festering fistula that is the primaries group to derail conversations in completely unrelated groups is what, exactly? Not rude? Not out of line?

Spare us your indignation.

[MADem]

21. Reading above the eighth grade level is not everyone's strong suit.

You are, INDEED, obviously, mistaken.

You missed the point entirely.

[Act_of_Reparation]

28. That's a fascinating response.

You really think that post was written at an eighth grade level?

But since I am clearly incapable of deciphering the written word as presented by those of even mediocre skill, perhaps you could elucidate precisely what is meant by your last paragraph. I search therein for metaphore and simile, yet alas and alack, I find myself deprived of all but its literal meaning, that is: the only people criticizing Papa Frank for choosing the decidedly un-Christlike side in Actions v Words are those who have never studied the church or never been a part of it.

It's a good thing I'm wrong, because there's no way you could know that without being omniscient (and you're clearly not so, as is evidenced by your apparent favorable disposition towards the canid when felidae are quite obviously the superior domesticated companions), and if you were omniscient, you'd know that some of us not particularly taken by Papa Frank or his smiley glad-handing are quite familiar with the Catholic Church.

But what do I know? I clearly don't read good like you. Perhaps when you're not too busy dragging your petulant primary quibbles into inappropriate venues, you could lift the veil from my eager eyes and state plainly the meaning of that paragraph, at a reading level appropriate to my intelligence. Maybe 5th or 6th grade? I loved Maniac McGee...

[MADem]

29. I think I'd rather let you stew in your own juices. nt

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. Oh, clever!

[NeoGreen]

37. Well, this post was scored at a 12.9 GL...

...just sayin'

[NeoGreen]

39. Whereas a previous post...

...scored, not-so-much...

[skepticscott]

31. Thinking above the level

of confirmation class is also a challenge for quite a few DUers. Staying mired in the comforting security blanket of childhood indoctrination is much easier and safer, wouldn't you say?

But I can understand how any challenge to those cherished beliefs can make some people lash out. I expect you'd rather alert on people for doing what you've already done yourself than acknowledge honestly that Blank Frank is a bigot, plain and simple.

[MADem]

41. Who the heck are you yammering at about "cherished beliefs" and

"comforting security blanket of childhood indoctrination?"

Do you have a squirrel in your pocket?

[skepticscott]

42. Read my post again

It's written so that 8th graders can understand it.

[Goblinmonger]

34. Your passage was written at a 7.8 grade level.

Which, for those unfamiliar, means the 8th month of the 7th grade year.

So, don't act like you wrote something ABOVE an eighth grade reading level when it was more BELOW an eighth grade level.

[MADem]

40. Trying to make it easy! nt

[Rob H.]

43. "(W)hy are you dragging your GDP shitshow here?"

Last edited Fri Apr 15, 2016, 12:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Because if s/he'd dragged into Interfaith no one would've seen it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

45. Oh, come on. That's not true.

Two people might have seen it.

[MADem]

18. There it is!!

Contrarian Chorus: That Pope is just HORRIBLE!!!

Bernie: "The Pope is wonderful, and while I disagree with him on a few things, I think he's just MARVELLOUS!!!"


Contrarian Chorus: That Pope is just MARVELLOUS!!!!!


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/10/vatican-pope-didn-t-invite-bernie-sanders.html

Vatican: Pope Didn’t Invite Bernie Sanders

[LiberalAndProud]

52. You were there, so you know, I suppose.

Just show up for an audience with the pope and poof there he is. It's magic.

While some alleged Sanders lobbied for the invitation, the chancellor for the pontifical academy, Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, said he invited Sanders because he was the only U.S. presidential candidate who showed strong interest in Francis' teachings.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/04/16/bernie-sanders-met-pope-francis/83118290/

Lies and untruths don't look tidy on you, muriel.

[Lordquinton]

5. That all you got?

[mr blur]

6. No, he's a bigoted, dishonest, narcissistic lying little creep.

Who cares more for his nasty little cult than he does for anyone worse off than himself - which is a hell of a lot of people.

And as you're so witty and smart and all you'll have guessed that I'm one of those "who oppose religion of any sort, who deride it and find it foolish and not useful". (Oh, you left out "positively fucking dangerous")
Sorry I'm unable to appreciate the nuances of the no-doubt brilliant insights that you condescend to share with us. Perhaps you'll have more luck with the members of the RCC cult who slink around this Group looking for something to be offended by.

There you go, you get to feel persecuted - just like a "real" Xian! - and smug gets to alert on something to make him feel important for a few seconds. Everybody wins.

[MADem]

20. LOL--you're funny as hell, and the assumptions you make are HILARIOUS.

That post is a positive case study!

[Goblinmonger]

13. I have no love for this pope

Still don't. I'm sure you've told me I'm a bigot for what I've said.

So where have i, or any other atheist here, said we love the pope for this? I'd love to see that.

For the record, I wish Sanders didn't go. I hope he calls the RCC out like he did Liberty University. I can understand why he wouldn't.

But the pope is still a bigot.

[rug]

16. Why would Bernie Sanders promote a bigot?

[edhopper]

19. so?

You are good with the Pope's view on LBGT.

Good to know.

[rug]

22. Is that an answer to the question?

You are good with Sanders enabling bigots?

Good to know.

[Lordquinton]

23. At least you agree with one thing

the pope is a bigot.

[rug]

24. I don't. I'm mocking you.

[Lordquinton]

25. So do you agree with his bigotry then?

Have you figured out what LGBTQIA means? You've had a long tie to study up on it.

[rug]

26. I see, you're retreating to your corner again.

I'll just ;eave you there before I hurt my ribs.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. No. Not even one as well funded and concealed as the Pope.

Granted the Pope is a master of masters in this regard. He cloaks his bigotry such that you can even make a sarcastic jibe like that one, thinking yourself so clever in creating a paradox, where the pope either isn't a bigot, because otherwise Sanders supporters would have to acknowledge he said something positive about a bigot, OR, the Pope IS a bigot and OOOH OOH OOH!! BIG STORY, SANDERS SUPPORTS A BIGOT!.

No, I'll go there. Sanders is mistaken. I am not so enamored with his progressive policies, that I overlook that mistake. But neither will throw it all away on principle because he got suckered in by the slickest PR campaign from the single wealthiest private organization on the planet.

Besides, our other option in this primary has wasted no opportunity to rub elbows with lesser bigots of the American cardinal/bishop-ian variety left and right;

In what could signal a coming pitch for the Catholic vote, Hillary Rodham Clinton met last week with Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan, the archbishop of New York, and on Monday she sat near the Rev. John I. Jenkins, president of the University of Notre Dame, at a St. Patrick’s Day-themed luncheon.

Skip to a meet the press interview:

NBC’s “Meet the Press” host David Gregory asked the Archbishop of New York in an interview that aired Sunday if the church is “losing the argument” on the issue of gay marriage.

“Well, I think maybe we've been out-marketed, sometimes,” Dolan replied. “We've been caricatured as being anti-gay. And as much as we'd say, ‘Wait a minute, we're pro marriage, we're pro traditional marriage, we're not anti anybody,’ I don't know. When you have forces like Hollywood, when you have forces like politicians, when you have forces like some opinion-molders that are behind it, it's a tough battle.”

Dolan is part of the fight to de-legitimize or reject same-sex-marriage, to this day. Opposes it. He's a bigot. And Hillary rubbed elbows with him. Does that make Hillary a supporter of bigots? It's as valid as your 'question'.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. Because he's a human being and makes mistakes, sometimes falling prey to a PR machine with pockets

as deep as the Vatican.

I'm much more likely to overlook such a foible, than I am falling prey to the republican warmongering PR machine, like some other candidate I could name.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

49. To win votes, of course. I wish all questions were that easy. N.T.

[AlbertCat]

46. He "invited Saint Bernard to Rome," doncha know!

Wait a moment!
Just yesterday, in an hysterical butt-hurt thread we learned that Sanders going to Rome wasn't even about "this Pope"!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141413440#post51


So.... which is it? What are you all yammering about now?

Freaking' hysterical!

[MADem]

47. Did that sarcasm fly past you, or way over your head? From where did the wooshing sound come? nt

[AlbertCat]

50. Did that sarcasm fly past you

No. It's just too lame to bother with.

[pansypoo53219]

7. i hope the is just pandering to the right to move farther left.

[trotsky]

9. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. n/t

[Goblinmonger]

14. I'm sure that's it

[Cartoonist]

11. The Pope is an unrepentant bigot

He's worse than Dawkins and Harris combined.

[trotsky]

12. But Dawkins tweets stuff!

That is AT LEAST as bad as running a billion-member institution that opposes gender, sexuality, and reproductive rights around the world, isn't it?

[Warpy]

27. He's still a misogynist, celibate old man

Consider the source. Most Catholics have and use birth control and approve of safe abortions, even the ones who say they would never have an abortion.

I keep waiting for churches in far flung countries like ours to shake the shackles of Rome off their backs and from around their necks. It worked out for Britain after an admittedly rough start when the monarchy kept getting passed back and forth between papists and Anglicans.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. He specifically references the part of the Catechism calling homosexuality 'objectively disordered'

That's the bit about 'assistance':

During the Synod, we discussed the situation of families whose members incluude persons who experience same-sex attraction ... Such families should be given respectful pastoral guidance, so that those who manifest a homosexual orientation can receive the assistance they need to understand and fully carry out God’s will in their lives.²⁷⁷

http://w2.vatican.va/content/dam/francesco/pdf/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20160319_amoris-laetitia_en.pdf

And footnote 277 points to "Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2358":

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

So Francis is fully on board with the 'objectively disordered' slur, still.

[trotsky]

32. Good catch.

I'm sure it's just a smokescreen for his radical changes that are coming. Eventually.

[Brettongarcia]

38. Worse, is archbishop Charles Chaput

The pope's new evil, arch-conservative assistant, from Philly. A specialist in sex and family.

He apprenticed in Focus of the Family, Colorado. Where Mr. Dear just shot up an abortion clinic. And where anti-abortion terrorist "Run Run" Rudolph was a local folk hero.

[LostOne4Ever]

48. None so blind as those who will not see. This pope is just as bad on this as his predecessor. nt

[CrowCityDem]

51. Income inequality is the only issue where the Pope isn't living in the 1500s.

[trotsky]

53. Well and even on that he (and his predecessors) don't understand how their policies...

make the problem worse. Without full equality and access to contraception, the cycle of poverty will continue for the world's women.

[Act_of_Reparation]

54. That is exactly it.

...he (and his predecessors) don't understand how their policies make the problem worse.

Bingo.

You can't separate the Church's progressive economics from their regressive positions on contraceptives. Unwanted pregnancy and incurable disease are as much economic issues as income inequality.

[trotsky]

55. Yet somehow we're supposed to put that aside and "work together."

How? It's like there's a house fire, but one guy keeps throwing firewood and cans of gasoline into the flames, and we're told to work with that guy to put out the fire.