Which came first, religion or mental illness?

[Cartoonist]

This is a response to all those apologists who like to excuse religion's responsibility for the murders committed by troubled individuals.

Even when people claim that God put them up to it, they dismiss the admission because the person had mental issues. Well, where did these issues come from? I contend that they came from the pages of their Holy Books. I contend that the mixture of fantasy and reality leads to breakdowns in logic and reason.

Take the age of the Earth, for example. Can anyone who claims that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, despite the overwhelming evidence, be taken seriously? That person has mental issues. Will these issues lead to violence? For many, no, but I'm keeping my eye on Ken Hamm.

The Orlando shooter is a perfect example of how religion can destroy the mind. His Holy Book tells him that homosexuality is a grave sin. How does he square that with his own identity? Many others in his same predicament end up committing suicide. This is a sorry loss to humanity laid directly at the feet of religion.

Let's take a look at the origin of religion. There's a lot of poppycock being written about how religion solidifies community. How it is a natural development of society. I contend that it's development was due to ignorance, superstition, and hatred. A mental illness trifecta.

[Iggo]

1. Which came first, baloney sandwiches or food?

[edhopper]

2. it's like the revelation on The Walking Dead

We are ALL infected.

[PeoViejo]

3. Mental Illness or a pot of Palm Wine

chasing a handful of magic mushrooms.

[eppur_se_muova]

4. What's the distinction between the two ?

Not everyone is willing to concede such a distinction exists in any really meaningful way.

[Major Nikon]

22. It's kinda like this

If your neighbor told you your satellite dish was retransmitting alien mind control signals and destroying the fabric of society, you'd think he was completely nuts.

But, if your neighbor told you gay marriage was destroying the fabric of society, you'd think he was on religion.

[skepticscott]

23. It's a bizarre situation

that we lock people up or medicate them if they say that a voice in their head is talking to them and telling them what to do (and that they do it), unless they say that the voice is "God" or "Jesus" or "Allah" or some such, in which case we call them the normal ones, and everyone who questions that reality is called intolerant, narrow-minded and bigoted.

[Major Nikon]

24. It's all fun and games until that voice tells you to go invade a sovereign nation for no good reason

[struggle4progress]

5. I would like to believe that your silly question reflected mere ignorance

rather than deliberate trolling

The question -- what actually constitutes "mental illness"? -- has been long discussed. One of my favorite quotes on this comes from Edlef Köppen's 1930 novel Heeresbericht, which the Nazis banned in 1935:

When Reisiger was detained and taken to military headquarters, he announced that he regarded the war as the greatest of crimes. He was therefore confined in a lunatic asylum

This scenario is, of course, also consistent with (say) Soviet psychiatric treatment of dissenters

In the case of personal breakdown of normal processing of sensory data, there may be a number of distinct causes, ranging from actual metabolic or physiological disease to an attempt to reorganize in the throes of psychological crisis. With regard to the later, RD Laing once said

Madness need not be all breakdown. It may also be break-through. It is potential liberation and renewal as well as enslavement and existential death

When discussing "mental illness," one may therefore be discussing violated social norms, serious interior personal conflicts, or organic disease processes, and in any particular case might be discussing some extraordinarily complicated interaction of all three

[Cartoonist]

6. Apostasy = death

You mean like that?

[struggle4progress]

7. Are you making any specific reference?

No religious group to which I have belonged has ever suggested killing apostates, though over the years I have certainly been aware of various people who thought those who disagreed with them should be killed

[Cartoonist]

8. I'm glad you don't belong to ISIS

What's your point?

[struggle4progress]

9. I would like to believe that your silly question reflected mere ignorance

rather than deliberate trolling

The question -- what actually constitutes "mental illness"? -- has been long discussed. One of my favorite quotes on this comes from Edlef Köppen's 1930 novel Heeresbericht, which the Nazis banned in 1935:

When Reisiger was detained and taken to military headquarters, he announced that he regarded the war as the greatest of crimes. He was therefore confined in a lunatic asylum

This scenario is, of course, also consistent with (say) Soviet psychiatric treatment of dissenters

In the case of personal breakdown of normal processing of sensory data, there may be a number of distinct causes, ranging from actual metabolic or physiological disease to an attempt to reorganize in the throes of psychological crisis. With regard to the later, RD Laing once said

Madness need not be all breakdown. It may also be break-through. It is potential liberation and renewal as well as enslavement and existential death

When discussing "mental illness," one may therefore be discussing violated social norms, serious interior personal conflicts, or organic disease processes, and in any particular case might be discussing some extraordinarily complicated interaction of all three

[Cartoonist]

10. Your apology

Gains nothing by repetition

[Igel]

20. Which came first, ideology or mental illness?

Same sort of question.

The Soviet reference is on point for this. You were mentally ill if you doubted the ideology.

Now, no ideology I've ever been in had more than a small minority of defectives who called for executing those who disagreed. However, there have been and are such ideologies. The USSR, for instance. Or China.

Some religions do not call for death to apostates; some do (ISIS).

Some ideologies do not call for death to apostates; some do (PRNK).

More used to call for death. Catholics, Muslims; Judaism; Communists and Socialists, Fascists. Some progressives really tried to play down what the USSR and China did, but that was just ideological idiocy.

Mental illness is a matter of what's culturally accepted. If you are in a society where prophets have visions and hear voices, then the schizophrenic aren't mentally ill, they're divinely inspired. Or the mentally ill are in part be considered social reformers, if that's their bent.

[Silver_Witch]

27. Well played!

[rug]

11. You clearly know very little about the etiology of mental illness.

If you did, fear of ridicule, if nothing else, would have prevented this post.

[rug]

15. Ok, cartoonist. there is no difference between mental illness and religion.

[jonno99]

13. A better question:

Would a belief in God have constrained the communists from killing 10s (100s?) of MILLIONS of people during the great purges of the 20th century?

[Cartoonist]

14. When has a belief in god

Ever kept someone from killing somebody?

[rug]

16. How often do you think people go around killing each other?

What an odd way of going through life.

[jonno99]

19. As often as it prevents someone

from picking their nose in public.

(+/- 20%)

[NeoGreen]

17. No, just the opposite, it would have acted as a...

...catalyst for them to kill more people.

[jonno99]

18. "it would have...".

And you know this based on what - your feelings?

[NeoGreen]

28. No, history...

..."Gott Mit Uns"



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns

Not exactly the selected belt buckles (or war cry) for Peace Corps volunteers or Médecins Sans Frontières.

[jonno99]

29. Got it -

you feel strongly that the communists would have killed more people in their purges - had they believed in God.

[NeoGreen]

30. Based on lessons from history...

...here endeth the lesson.

[jonno99]

31. Only a skewed reading of history would arrive at such a conclusion,

Your feelings notwithstanding, what history actually demonstrates is that the greatest incidences of mass murder were carried out by....?

I'll let you fill in the answer - if you can.

(hint: it wasn't those pesky "religious folks&quot

[Leontius]

21. I think we're not allowed to ridicule stupid posts anymore, thin skins, hurt fellings and all that .

So I won't.

[Brettongarcia]

25. Religion arose to try sort out our confusing existence

Why did it rain? A God in the sky did it.

Originally human beings, having little culture, were ignorant to the point of insanity. Later, religious attempts at explaining the universe though, weren't much better.

[Silver_Witch]

26. Mental illness!

[Lordquinton]

32. It's not Mental illness

Most crimes are committed by perfectly sane people, and the mentally ill are far more often the victims of such crimes, as anyone familiar with the stats will tell you. So crimes committed in thee name of god are probably done by sane people, who are then thrown under the bus in the name of religion.