President Trump Should Thank Catholics

[trotsky]

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/president-trump-should-thank-catholics

It was 3am when Donald Trump stood at the podium at the Hilton Hotel in New York to effectively end one of the ugliest and most divisive elections in U.S. history. He announced that Hillary Clinton had called him to concede. He proceeded to thank numerous people: his wife, his children, his parents, his sisters, his brother, his late brother, Reince Priebus, Mike Pence, Chris Christie, Rudy Giuliani, Ben Carson and Kellyanne Conway. But as Donald Trump further savors his shocking upset victory, he might want to pause to give thanks to Catholics.

According to CNN exit polling and Pew Research Center data, Catholics voted for Donald Trump 52%-45%. White Catholics went for Trump 60%-37%. As I write, we’re awaiting better data, but another number that usually captures faithful Catholics is this one: Those who attend religious services weekly or more went for Trump 56%-40%.It was 3am when Donald Trump stood at the podium at the Hilton Hotel in New York to effectively end one of the ugliest and most divisive elections in U.S. history. He announced that Hillary Clinton had called him to concede. He proceeded to thank numerous people: his wife, his children, his parents, his sisters, his brother, his late brother, Reince Priebus, Mike Pence, Chris Christie, Rudy Giuliani, Ben Carson and Kellyanne Conway. But as Donald Trump further savors his shocking upset victory, he might want to pause to give thanks to Catholics.

It’s quite telling that Catholics suddenly surged for Trump only in the final weeks of the campaign, after months of Trump understandably failing to attract them, given his huge flaws, especially his crude and vulgar behavior and impulsive and often reckless temperament. And yet, not only did he ultimately win Catholics, but he won them handily.

...

To be sure, I think that Donald Trump is at best indifferent to matters like transgenderism, sexuality and even same-sex “marriage.” I hope he has indeed evolved to being pro-life, as he has said, after once having openly supported even partial-birth abortion in his stridently “pro-choice” days. But indifference is far preferable to a Hillary Clinton who stridently hoists the rainbow flag, fights fanatically for government-funded and mandated abortion, and generally carries the Obama torch of fundamental transformation.

In other words, Hillary Clinton was unacceptable for most Catholics because she believes in LGBT equality and reproductive rights. That's why they decided to vote for a narcissistic asshole.

[HAB911]

1. Supremacists will force their ideology on everyone

if it kills them and us

[trotsky]

4. Sometimes I think that's actually their goal. n/t

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

2. Yep, that was the case in my family - they hated him but in the end were

convinced by 40 yrs of the Hillary hate machine that her character was "just as bad".... so all things being equal (or so they thought) they would vote for the pro-life judges.

[rug]

3. You're posting right wing commentary again.

My take on the Catholic vote in 2016 is just that — namely, Hillary Clinton lost Catholics more than Donald Trump won them. Or, put differently, Catholics found her less preferable, less appealing than Trump, even as so many Catholics found him unappealing. Many Catholics saw this election as the lesser of two evils, with Hillary Clinton in the end judged the greater evil.

George Weigel, a “Never Trumper,” put it this way: “The good news is that she lost. The bad news is that he won.” Millions of Catholics opted for the former scenario.

Speaking for myself, as someone who was “Never Trump” and “Never Hillary,” I frankly wanted both to lose, but I especially wanted Hillary to lose. He was and remains a big risk, but what she represented was never a guess. We knew her. I believe that thinking speaks for many of us Catholics.

The author is the Executive Director of a conservative think tank. It has a great interest in peeling Catholics from the Democratic Party. Don't help them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Vision_and_Values

[Goblinmonger]

5. The author is a Catholic

That he is conservative and wanted Clinton to lose puts him firmly in the majority of Catholics that voted according to the polling data.

[rug]

6. So was Hitler. It's still divisive right wing commentary.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. A large percentage of Catholics are divisive right wing people.

You got all hot and bothered to show a 2% decline in 'nones' who didn't come back and vote for the Democratic Nominee after the previous election. A non-material contribution to Trump.

The catholic contribution to Trump is material. Worth talking about. Going to be talked about more. Buckle up.

[Lordquinton]

32. Francis is a conservative person

if we're gonna talk about heinous things we have a lot to choose from here, maybe his advice on how to beat your children without being caught?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/06/pope-francis-parents-ok-smack-children-dignity

“One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say ‘I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them’,” Francis said.

“How beautiful.” he added. “He knows the sense of dignity! He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on.”

The Rev Thomas Rosica, who collaborates with the Vatican press office, said the pope was obviously not speaking about committing violence or cruelty against a child but rather about “helping someone to grow and mature”.

"How Beautiful"

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. It's a bit late for your concern, isn't it?

Trump did peel Catholics from the Democratic Party.

Republican presidential winning margin:
2000: -3
2004: +5
2008: -9
2012: -2
2016: +7

Worst ever.



If you want a source more to your taste also pointing out the Catholic role:

http://www.americamagazine.org/issue/indispensable
http://www.americamagazine.org/content/dispatches/catholics-part-unexpected-surge-trump

[rug]

8. To be precise, he got the white Catholic vote. He lost the Hispanic Catholic vote by 23%.

Don't you like precision, muriel?

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Gosh, your precision sounds just like the OP article you denounced

Emphasising the difference between 'white' and 'Hispanic' seems very divisive, though. Which you were deploring a moment ago. He got the overall Catholic vote too. By the biggest margin ever.

[rug]

10. Hardly.

Unlike the OP's rightwing commentary, which you appear to endorse, I pointed out to you the decisive factor was not religion but ethnicity. Much to your chagrin.

Why are you so eager to separate Catholics from the Democratic Party?

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Start of the 2nd paragraph:

"According to CNN exit polling and Pew Research Center data, Catholics voted for Donald Trump 52%-45%. White Catholics went for Trump 60%-37%."

See? Your message - dividing up the Catholic vote into white and Hispanic - is just the same as in the piece you decry. In desperation to find something good to write about some Catholics, you divided the Hispanics from the white ones. Because you will never face the fundamental conservative nature of the Catholic church and do something to reverse it, but prefer instead to make excuses for it.

The Catholics are leaving the Democrats - the simple figures show that - and you can't face up to that. I'm not separating them; they're doing it themselves. It may be that the Catholics who are better people are simply leaving the church, so that those remaining are more right wing. That's always an option for you - leave it.

[rug]

14. You sound downright gleeful about the election results.

It must be because you found an antiCatholic angle to push.

Your conclusion is, of course, bullshit. The "Catholic" vote broke Democratic two of the last three elections.

If trump is reelected with the same numbers, will that make you happy?

One last thing, muriel, you are in no position to say what I can or cannot "face up to".

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Rug, all kinds of people are telling you Catholics have become more and more Republican

including America Magazine, which you admire. That's not from 'glee'; it's a damning indictment of Catholics. Your reaction, time and again, is to try and ignore it, squirm out of it, or attempt to change the subject. You are showing everyone you cannot face up to this. You need to accept reality, rather than deny it, so that you might then be able to do something to reverse this appalling trend.

[rug]

17. Ah, you've finally said what you really want.

"a damning indictment of Catholics"

Anything will do.

You really need to do better than this rightwing OP. Since Hispanic Catholics broke 67 to 26 for Hillary and white Catholics broke 60 to 37 for trump, it's pretty clear, contrary to the OP and your fondest hopes, the salient factor is not "Catholics".

[Goblinmonger]

19. Catholics as a whole also broke for Trump

That's reality. Is there a racial subgroup that aren't against the trend? Yes. But, as a whole, Catholics are moving right.

I'm quite sure if atheists as a whole voted for Trump in the percentages that Catholics did, you would be posting that all over the place. Can you possibly admit that's true? And if atheists voted for Trump in that percentage, I'd be posses and dumbfounded.

[rug]

20. That's because there are more white Catholics in the U.S. than Hispanic Catholics.

If atheists as a whole voted for anyone, there wouldn't even be a ripple in the returns.

[Goblinmonger]

21. I think that's the point many of us are trying to make, actually

The American RCC is predominately white. A big majority of the religion went Trump. Is the white RCC going to listen to the Hispanic minority?

[rug]

26. No, the "us" you refer to broad brush Catholics, ignoring the real demographics.

It fits "your" narrative better.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. It's a single issue break.

Like white catholics most likely hold abortion most dear as an issue, Hispanics probably held the fact that Trump directly attacks them as a ethnic group over and over most dear as a single issue.

If Trump didn't spend all day every day going on and on about a wall, and how (he specified Mexicans) immigrants are rapists and criminals and basically shitting all over them, what do you think the delta between Hispanic Catholics and white Catholics would have been in this election?


If you can demonize ONE issue to the exclusion of all else, one can overcome multiple negatives. Hence; trump getting significant support from white catholics. (Anti-abortion)

Trump's pro-liferism was lost in the noise of his hate for Hispanics, so for Hispanic catholics, trump wasn't 'worth it' to go after, say, abortion.

[Lordquinton]

33. The question you ran and hid from is actually

why are Catholics running from the Democratic party?

[rug]

35. Here's one for you, quinton.

Do you want practicing Catholics in the Democratic Party?

[Lordquinton]

36. How about you stop attacking fellow Democrats and explain why Catholics are leaving the party?

[rug]

37. Hmm, run and hide.

Here's a clue, quinton. Catholics are your fellow Democrats. On second thought, I'll simply say Catholics are Democrats. Keep bashing them.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. *some* are. Not all.

Worse, it's a private club whose bylaws are used worldwide to prohibit or oppose:

1. Abortion.
2. Family Planning.
3. Condoms.
4. Sex Education.
5. LGBTQ rights of any stripe.
6. End of life decisions like self-euthanasia.

I can make you a bigger list.


Some Catholics are Democrats IN SPITE of Catholicism. Like Ireland, a predominantly Catholic nation, passed (by referendum no less) Same Sex Marriage last year. And they overruled the RCC on it, because frankly, after scandal upon scandal including the abuse of children, they have had enough of the RCC's shit, and are forging a new path, quite apart from the guidance of the RCC proper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Ireland

[Lordquinton]

42. Keep dodging rug

There are some catholics that vote dem, but, unlike atheists, they went for trump, and that really helped swing the election in his favor. Denying this won't help the party out in the future, and unlike when discussing your god, there are solid facts and evidence in play that you can't just say "Because I said so"

[rug]

43. Are you dodging the 26% of religiously unaffiliated who voted for trump?

Speaking of dodging, here's the question you dodged:

Do you want practicing Catholics in the Democratic Party?

[Goblinmonger]

12. I know it must hurt to see your religion go overwhelmingly to Trump.

Sorry about that. Maybe the new liberal Pope will make it all better.

[rug]

13. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Goblinmonger]

16. Discussions with you are often fruitless.

I'd appreciate a self-delete of personal information. And not just an edit.

[rug]

18. I'd appreciate a post from you without the personal snideness in post 12.

I really don't think you're capable of it when disputed.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Reap what you sow.

[rug]

25. You really should think twice before typing that.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. I'm not the one objecting about observations about my nature.

[rug]

28. That sentence, unremarkably, makes no sense.

[AtheistCrusader]

39. A better question for you then.

Where did you get that bit of personal information you posted in Post 13? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Lordquinton]

29. We'd all appreciate that from you

Example a) Post 18, the one I am replying to.

[rug]

30. QED

[Lordquinton]

34. QED

[Historic NY]

31. Even the Pope wasn't in trumps court.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. The pope preferred to 'not get involved'.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-pope-francis-has-advice-but-no-1475503246-htmlstory.html

Note he didn't go out of his way to endorse Hillary. Seems unusual he couldn't pick a side, given he's happy to meddle in the internal political affairs of lots of nations worldwide, traipsing about with his armored entourage to shit on Same Sex Marriage in the Philippines http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/pope-francis-suggests-gay-marriage-threatens-traditional-families , or approving of billboards thanking the RCC in Slovakia for squelching SSM in that country, etc. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/06/pope-slovakia-referendum_n_6630876.html

His silence on our election was deafening. Could have used some help, given the number of catholics that went ahead and voted for Trump.

[struggle4progress]

41. It would be interesting to see turn-out information by demographic

Linear regression somewhat curiously suggests that Clinton carried states where turn-out fell relative to 2012 while Trump carried states where turn-out rose relative to 2012

I'm not certain of the following interpretation, but it seems credible to me: Democratic turn-out generally fell relative to 2012; Trump supporters generally sat-out 2012 but were mobilized in states Trump carried

Since Trump didn't win the popular vote, any useful analysis of the election must involve state-by-state examination of the demographic inputs into the electoral college