Were Neanderthals Religious?

[rug]

December 7, 20165:27 AM ET
Commentary
BARBARA J. KING

Imagine this scene: Inside a cave in Spain, a group of people gather around the grave of a toddler. Hearths with lit fires, marked by 30 horns of animals including bison and red deer, surround the grave. A rhinoceros skull is nearby.

At a conference this fall, archaeologist Enrique Baquedano and his colleagues described this scene as a probable funeral ritual held 40,000 years ago by Neanderthals.

That announcement contains a mix of both hard data — the child's bones and the animal horns and skull — and informed speculation suggesting that these data point to a community funeral ritual.

The archaeologists' scenario relates closely to questions I have been thinking about: Did the Neanderthals practice religion? How would we know it, if they did?

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/12/07/504650215/were-neanderthals-religious

[Angry Dragon]

1. How would we know it, if they did?

You only have to believe to make it true ..........................

[rug]

2. Science.

[Angry Dragon]

3. I have been told science and religion do not mix

[rug]

5. It's more a matter of function than mixing.

More relevantly for a scientific analysis is this question: Did they come together in groups to evoke gods, spirits or ancestors to help themselves make sense of the world?

I emailed anthropologist and Neanderthal expert John Hawks at the University of Wisconsin to ask for his thoughts about Neanderthals and religion.

His response, in part, was this:

"Religion, as many people recognize it, is built from highly detailed symbolic narratives. If we separate that out, though, and look only at the material manifestations that an archaeologist might find, there is really very little in most religious traditions that is different from what Neanderthals do.

"So I don't think it is at all improbable that the Neanderthals had a humanlike religious capacity. But to be honest, I think this is not what many Americans or Europeans would recognize as religion."

[Angry Dragon]

6. The last sentence gives me pause.

It brings to mind religious intolerance by so called organized religions

My belief is that religion and science can work together if religion decides to have an open mind

[rug]

7. I think it indicates the breadth of religions.

As well as the totems of familiarity people bestow on their chosen beliefs.

[northoftheborder]

4. Interesting.

[guillaumeb]

8. Assuming that early hominids resembled us intellectually as well as physically,

it would seem that what motivates us also motivated them.

And if what motivates modern man involves speculation about an afterlife, can w not assume that a hominid species of similar intelligence would behave similarly?

[rug]

9. Their graves suggest it.

[okasha]

10. I think that a practitioner of any shamanic religion

would understand those artifacts and their relationship to the burial as elements of a funeral ritual. The earliest "scriptures" available to us are cave paintings and petroglyphs, and they are evidence that bison, deer, and a wide array of other species have been considered bearers of spiritual power for tens of thousands of years. We know that early modern H. sapiens and the Neanderthals were contemporaneous for some time, as well as interfertile. It would hardly be surprising to find evidence of cultural--specifically religious--similarities.

[guillaumeb]

11. Exactly.

And a funeral ritual implies that the one who prepared the body/grave did so to honor the dead. Does it necessarily imply a belief in an afterlife, or a Creator? No, but creation stories date back many thousands of years.

[okasha]

12. As does the belief in an afteife,

whether the afterlife is perceived as eternity in a Paradise or rebirth into another physical life on earth. In cultures that practice inhumation and regard the earth as a universal mother, burial may be seen as returning the dead to the mother"s womb to allow rebirth. It's probably not coincidental that many early cultures buried their dead in the fetal position. If I recall correctly, at least one. Neanderthal burial has been found in that position.

[guillaumeb]

13. As to fetal positioning of the dead:

I have read that Hawai'ians buried their dead in this fashion, as did some African peoples, as well as First Peoples on this continent.

One question to ask might be: have there ever been any ancient cultures that were atheistic?

[okasha]

14. A good question.

As far as I'm aware, no such ancient culture has been identified. It's possible, though, that they existed and we just haven't found them yet.

[Jim__]

15. The Piraha of Brazil may be atheistic.

From wikipedia:

…

As far as the Pirahã have related to researchers, their culture is concerned solely with matters that fall within direct personal experience, and thus there is no history beyond living memory. Pirahã have a simple kinship system that includes baíxi (parent, grandparent, or elder), xahaigí (sibling, male or female), hoagí or hoísai (son), kai (daughter), and piihí (stepchild, favorite child, child with at least one deceased parent, and more).[4] (pp86–87)

Daniel Everett states that one of the strongest Pirahã values is no coercion; you simply don't tell other people what to do.[5] There appears to be no social hierarchy; the Pirahã have no formal leaders. Their social system can thus be labeled as primitive communism, in common with many other hunter-gatherer bands in the world, although rare in the Amazon because of a history of agriculture before Western contact (see history of the Amazon).

Although the Pirahã use canoes every day for fishing and for crossing the river that they live beside, when their canoes wear out, they simply use pieces of bark as temporary canoes. Everett brought in a master builder who taught and supervised the Pirahã in making a canoe, so that they could make their own. But when they needed another canoe, they said that "Pirahã do not make canoes" and told Everett he should buy them a canoe. The Pirahã rely on neighboring communities' canoe work, and use those canoes for themselves.

…

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god,[8] and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him. They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made.[5] However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people.[4](pp112,134–142) Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that “Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle.” Everett and his daughter could see nothing and yet the Pirahã insisted that Xigagaí was still on the beach.[4](ppxvi-xvii)

more ...

[guillaumeb]

16. Atheism was also known among the Greeks and other ancient societies.

But the post is speaking about a somewhat different thing.

[okasha]

18. True that atheism in the modern sense

was known among both Greeks and Romans and in some schools of Buddhism. Greeks and Romans often used the term, though, for those who did not subscribe to their own state religions, i.e., early Christians.

[okasha]

17. The belief in spirits inhabiting living creatures

and an apparently culturally significant practice of warding them off suggests that the Pirahã are animists.

[Kolesar]

19. Neanderthals did not have speech

They did not have the proper hyoid bone to enable speech. So, how would they have communicated their beliefs down through the generations?

I am reading "Cro-magnon" by Brian Fagan. I have been trying to study what evolved in our brains to give us the consciousness that we experience as modern humans.

[Jim__]

20. There have been studies that suggest the Neanderthals had complex speech.

From a 2013 article in the BBC News:

An analysis of a Neanderthal's fossilised hyoid bone - a horseshoe-shaped structure in the neck - suggests the species had the ability to speak.

This has been suspected since the 1989 discovery of a Neanderthal hyoid that looks just like a modern human's.
But now computer modelling of how it works has shown this bone was also used in a very similar way.
Writing in journal Plos One, scientists say their study is "highly suggestive" of complex speech in Neanderthals.

more …

Also, this article from 2015 in the human evolution blog suggests they may have had speech. An excerpt:

…

The fossilized remains of Homo habilus, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, and others, exhibit a throat structure closer to other apes than to humans. It is unlikely that they could speak as we do. What about Neanderthals? Neanderthals are our closest cousins, separated by 500,000-700,000 years of separate evolution (with some interbreeding, especially toward the end of Neanderthals around 50,000 years ago). If any non-human species could speak, Neanderthals would be the most likely candidates.

…

Several Neanderthal hyoid bones have been found over the years, and scientists from the University of New England recently analyzed them using high-resolution X-rays and three-dimensional computer modeling. This allowed the scientists to see inside the hyoid bone as well as subtle features on its surface, which indicate points of attachment to the various musculature.

From this, the scientists were able to conclude that the hyoid bone was as low in the throat of Neanderthals as it is in modern humans. Since we know that the hyoid bones of what we believe is our common ancestor with Neanderthals is much higher, this is an example of convergent evolution.

Both humans and Neanderthals experienced a steady drop in the position of their hyoid bones. Does this mean that Neanderthals could speak like we can? No one can say for sure, but this is definitely a strong piece of evidence that they could. It is fascinating to ponder Neanderthals conversing with one another in a rich language of sounds not unlike our own.

more …

I don’t know if there have been later discoveries that contradict that information.

[Kolesar]

21. Wow that is great information, thanks eom

[edhopper]

22. Judging the Fundementalist Christains in this country

Neanderthals definitely have religion.

(Sorry, too easy )


Actually, it is an interesting subject, how far back in human ancestry did religion emerge?