Why the Catholic Church lost in Ireland

[trotsky]

https://religionnews.com/2018/05/29/why-the-catholic-church-lost-in-ireland/

...what seems to have turned a narrow margin into a landslide was the case of Savita Halappanavar, the dentist who in the midst of a miscarriage died of sepsis because she could not be given an abortion while there was still a fetal heartbeat. Halappanavar became the emblem of the movement to strike down the Eighth Amendment to the Irish Constitution, which insisted, like the Catholic Church, that the unborn’s right to life is equal to the mother’s.

That position conflicts with the visceral human understanding that an early-term miscarriage is not the death of a person; that the mother’s life and health are more valuable than the life of the unborn; that a woman who becomes pregnant by rape or incest should not be required to carry to term.

...A religion should be wary of being out of step with visceral human understanding. In Ireland, polling showed that of the 31 percent of those who voted to retain Amendment Eight, just 38 percent opposed permitting abortions in cases of rape or incest. Altogether, on that issue less than 12 percent of Irish voters adhered to the Church’s position.

...Meanwhile, it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that, as with contraception, the Catholic Church has lost its old ability to make nice moral distinctions, and boxed itself into an intellectual corner.

[Major Nikon]

1. They lost because they were less progressive than Saudi Arabia on the subject

Meanwhile there's no end to ascribing metaphysical characteristics to protoplasm.

[MineralMan]

2. "boxed itself into an intellectual corner"

Indeed. And, as it does, it loses support more and more these days.

[Major Nikon]

4. I'm not so sure the position was anti-intellectual

If you are going to take the hocus pocus position that human tissue has metaphysical properties, there really can be no compromise. If destroying live human tissue is truly evil, then one must condemn all of it in order to be consistent. So compare that position to one that claims it's morally acceptable to terminate a pregnancy in some situations, but not others.

[MineralMan]

5. Well, I'm afraid that I think the moment you assign

metaphysical properties to things, you step out of intellectual territory altogether. That has always been my problem with religious logic. It attaches non-physical concept to physical things and then thinks about that illogical combination.

I can't find anything intellectually sound in doing that at all.

[Major Nikon]

6. True, the extent of their intellectualism ends with "you can't prove me wrong"

The point is at least they are consistent in their position which seems intellectually superior to the alternative.

[efhmc]

3. Until the RCR acknowledges that women are complete

humans who must be "allowed" all rights and privileges in their church, they are a biased and evil institution and will continue to lose followers.

[procon]

7. Get religion out of government!

Government's business is the rule of law and equal justice.
Religious business is taboos and the authority of a patriarchy.

The two concepts cannot coexist.