I asked a Hmong neighbor about the traditional religious

[MineralMan]

beliefs of the Hmong community. He explained some of it to me, along with some of the rituals that accompany all sorts of passages in life. Then he said, "That's what the old people believe. it's tradition. The Shaman strikes his gong and goes into his trance, and we all nod and participate."

He went on to tell me that the current generations have mostly moved away from the old naturalistic beliefs about the spirit world, but appreciate the old traditions and honor their elders by participating.

I asked him what his beliefs were now, and he said, "Living and prospering is the goal for me now. The spirit world stayed behind when the Hmong came here."

I thanked him for sharing the information. That's how old religions die. People move on and the world changes. When they are no longer relevant, they die. Perhaps that will be the fate of the old religions of the western world, as well. Perhaps that process is more advanced than we realize.

[byronius]

1. I work with the Hmong, and it's an interesting history and story they have.

They all admit it's difficult to adhere to the practices that were routine in Laos and Thailand once they're exposed to full-on Western culture. Like anyone with somewhat anti-scientific views, they tend to relent when their sick child can be cured by advanced neuroscience. Even the older folk now combine the two, which would have been considered heresy back in Laos.

A young man I've worked with for years was going to be a shaman, but has since let go of that idea. We've had long discussions about how religious hierarchy works, and the psychology behind it -- he gets it.

None of the things they believe are any crazier than deep-South evangelicals, however.

[MineralMan]

3. I agree with you that it's no crazier than any other religion.

In some ways, the spirit-based religions are very practical. There's a house spirit and spirits in everything. Some are helpful and other are dangerous and need to be appeased from time to time. There are spirits in people, as well. It seems complicated but it's really simpler than monotheism on a day-to-day basis.

My neighbor two doors down the street is a shaman. I hear the gong frequently. But, he's old and in poor health now. I don't know if there's someone to take his place once he's gone. I haven't seen him outside for some time, but I talk to his sons and grandsons often. I always ask about him. Lately, there is mostly head-shaking.

Some Hmong have shifted over to Pentacostalist Christian churches in the area. I don't know anyone in that group, though.

[Major Nikon]

2. Religious belief heavily relies on privilege to maintain itself

When that belief is no longer the default, people feel no obligation to pretend to be convinced by it. That's why indoctrination and proselytizing to the young is so important to them. Deep down they realize new customers aren't going to materialize otherwise.

[MineralMan]

4. That's true, but the Hmong religion was based on the life

they lived in another place, really. Life here in the US is much more complicated and much faster moving. In just a couple of generations, the Hmong here in St. Paul have gone from a primitive agrarian culture to full-on US-style urban living. I can't imagine that the old traditional religion will survive here. It's just the wrong environment for it.

By the way, my wife and I are known as the "Crow People." We feed birds, squirrels and other critters in our front yard. We have about three dozen crows who come twice every day to noisily go after the peanuts we provide. I know about our name, because we heard a 5 or 6-year-old boy call to his sister, "Here come the Crow People." They ran out to meet us and our two dogs. We're exotic creatures to them, but friendly ones. I'm sure the grandparent generation gave us that name, and the kids adopted it for us.