Why did God create the coronavirus?

[Cartoonist]

Really, what's up with that mass murderer this time? I want to hear from theists why God does shit like this. And I don't want to hear BS like "He works in mysterious ways", or "It's the Devil's work". I also don't want to hear that it was the atheists in China that created it.

I want to hear why Jesus, who supposedly loves us, would spread death around the globe.

[LakeArenal]

1. Because there is no such thing as divinity.

Except the fudge.

[dbonds]

14. 👆This.

[edhopper]

2. I am sure

Aquinas said something pithy about this.

[guillaumeb]

17. If you drop a brick on your foot,

do you decide that this proves that there is no God?

If you hit your finger with a hammer, do you say that the hammer is evil?

[edhopper]

20. Is that Aquinas?

[guillaumeb]

45. An even more famous theologian.

Well, in my own limited mind.

[pwb]

3. Mother Earth tried to warn us about pollution , we did not listen

Now she is fighting back by reducing humans.

[Cartoonist]

5. It's Nature's Way

[pwb]

8. Back when music had a message and purpose.

thanks

[Ferrets are Cool]

9. It still does...you just have to know where to listen.

[Act_of_Reparation]

61. If I could roll my eyes back any further...

...I'd be looking straight ahead.

[cos dem]

4. It's punishment for electing the orange dumbass.

[Doodley]

6. Do we blame the father of a man who kills his neighbor?

Do we want a controlling father who makes us only do what he wants, or do we want to be free to make mistakes for ourselves and to suffer for those mistakes?

[guillaumeb]

16. And this is one good response to this ages old "argument". eom

[edhopper]

21. What aboput the free will of the neighbor?

Last edited Sun Mar 29, 2020, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

did he choose to be killed? Is the free will of the son more important to God than the life of the neighbor?

[Doodley]

33. That is what happens when people are free to make good or bad choices. Some

benefit from those choices and some suffer.

[edhopper]

34. so God wants free will

Over innocent lives? Let good people die and suffer so that evil people can choose? God choose evil over good.

[Doodley]

42. Without freedom of thought and freedom of action, we would not be human. We would

be machines. It isn't so much about what God wants, assuming there is a God, it's about humans making choices that have consequences.

[edhopper]

44. the idea that humans actually have free will

is not supported by reality. Neuroscience would differ.

[Doodley]

47. Okay, so don't ever judge Trump and the decisions he makes, if you don't think he

is responsible for his own choices and his own actions.

[edhopper]

48. He is a psychologically sick man

But we live in a world that treats us as if we are responsible for all our actions, when the reality is more complex.

Free Will is a rabbit hole we fall into.

[Voltaire2]

25. is this father the omnipotent omniscient omnipresent creator of the universe?

nope, so the analogy fails right there, but wait, there's more fail!

Please explain what the holy fork 'free will' has to do with a pandemic.

Thanks.

[Doodley]

32. No, it isn't the same father. That is how analogies work. Do you have evidence

that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator of the universe?

This pandemic would not have happened were it not for the choices humans made.

[trotsky]

67. Then it's a horrible analogy.

This is exactly the kind of deflection that Trump supporters do for their god. It's never his fault. It's China's fault. It's Hillary's fault. Ad nauseum.

If your god exists, and its nature is as you believe it to be, then there are some really difficult situations that come out of being omnipotent. This is one of them. Just admit you don't know how to resolve the issue rather than making shit up.

[Doodley]

71. I'm an atheist. I don't have a God and never claimed I do. However, I believe that

the perceived form and functionality of God is different for each of those who hold a belief in him.

One can believe in God or Gods and not believe that he is omnipotent and/or directly responsible for all the bad stuff that happens to us.

It isn't for me or other atheists to define God or to tell believers what responsibilities or lack of responsibilities their God has.

[trotsky]

75. It was your analogy. It sucked.

I notice that you aren't even bothering to defend it, but instead are now trying to divert this into an argument about atheists defining god. That's also a bad place for you, since you just did that with your analogy.

First rule when you find yourself in a hole: stop digging.

[Doodley]

79. I don't have to defend anything just because you don't like it. And where's the "bad place" for me?

[trotsky]

80. It was pointed out to you by two different people how your analogy failed.

But yeah, it's probably just because we "didn't like it." You bet. While you're criticizing others for supposedly trying to define god for believers, you should probably refrain from doing exactly that with awful analogies. That's the bad place you've put yourself in. But then if you're OK with hypocrisy, carry on. I won't stop you. Keep digging!

[John Fante]

36. I want a father who protects his children from danger.

You know, like real fathers do? God can't even bothered communicate with his children directly. He's an absentee father.

[Doodley]

43. I agree. What exactly does he do? And is it really hard to wave your arms around and

create things like the Earth, the seas, humans? He didn't even work a seven day week!

[John Fante]

49. He can do all that but can't stop a measly pandemic?

Maybe he goofs on seeing us suffer.

[Major Nikon]

57. So does the invisible sky daddy intervene in the lives of humans or doesn't he?

If the answer is the former, then he’s kind of a dick for not intervening when he’s needed and there’s really no point in worshipping someone who doesn’t give the least shit about his creation.

If the answer is the latter, there’s really no point in worshiping him.

This of course assumes there really is an invisible sky daddy, for which there is no evidence beyond those who engage in utterly baseless speculation.

So as far as those who take your argument and declare “checkmate atheists”, they might want to rethink that reasoning.

[safeinOhio]

7. A loop hole in a poem..so saith the poem,,,

God moves in a mysterious way. In our modern jargon, shit happens.

[malchickiwick]

10. Yahweh is a whiny little bitch. It's in the Bible. So no doubt we did something to set him off again

Seriously, the similarities between Yahweh and the dotard ... they're both self-obsessed, vindictive, thin-skinned, and insecure. Recall, the first four items in the Decalogue are all about him.

[Backseat Driver]

11. Isn't that a lot like asking why He created humans,

the ultimate diverse, replicating (in sorrow), predator and plague upon the earth at a location with non-magic finite resources?

[CaptYossarian]

12. Wait until swarms of locusts start spreading it.

Then you'll know He's really pissed.

[cojoel]

13. I don't suppose we will hear any televangelists say

"This is God's way of punishing the fundamentalist Christians for supporting the anti-christ Donald Trump."

Just sayin'.

[guillaumeb]

15. An old argument, and the proponents of this never tire of raising it.

It is easily answered if one simply acknowledges that the Creator allows creation to evolve.

[Cartoonist]

18. Not an answer

So who created evolution? Who put into place the mechanics of evolution? This isn't man making a hammer and then dropping it on his foot. No one is using their free will to mutate anything.

Once again the theists are asked to explain why their God does such shit, only to find them repeating the same non-explanations and worthless platitudes.

[Doodley]

35. Why do you require an explanation? Without the bad actions of humans

and the disregard of basic hygiene and the abuse of animals, this would not have happened. Do you have an explanation for that? Why do you blame "Jesus" or "God." instead of focusing on the choices made by humans, and this isn't the first epidemic that has started in this way.

[Cartoonist]

37. I know there isn't an explanation.

I am merely pointing out the supreme hypocrisy of religion that tries to portray their God as a loving creator.

[Doodley]

40. With that, I agree.

[guillaumeb]

46. Your question is actually an assumption of the motivation of the Creator.

What you seem to want, what many seem to want of a Creator is a pain free existence, where hammers never fall on feet, and no one ever dies.

[Cartoonist]

54. What you're selling.

I don't want a creator. I'm happy without one. But that's not what you are selling. You're pushing a loving god who sent his own son to die. You're the one attributing motives. I'm just pointing out your hipocrisy.

[guillaumeb]

55. I am not selling anything.

If you are happy with your view, I am happy for you.

[Voltaire2]

27. so humans are just an accidental feature of evolution.

great. I'm so glad we finally agree on this issue.

[Major Nikon]

58. Here's the best part

Those who want to try to reconcile evolution with creationism tacitly admit their god is noninterventionist, which opens up a whole can of worms. If god doesn’t intervene on behalf of his creation, then why do they spend so much time asking for favors and thanking him for everything that happens to work out?

The reality is they do believe their god does intervene, which kinda makes him an asshole for not doing so when it matters. Then you have those who claim god could intervene, but decides not to because it’s justice imposed on all of humanity for the errors of a few. In other words an even bigger asshole. And yet still they line up to worship and beg favor of him, as if that will ever do any good.

[guillaumeb]

65. If that is your misreading of my comment,

be informed that it is a misreading.

[Voltaire2]

69. so your gods intervened in evolution to create humans but can't intervene in evolution to stop

pandemics?

How convenient.

[Act_of_Reparation]

64. You've answered nothing.

It is not ethical to leave your infant child alone in a room full of razor blades.

The god you describe is a fucking dick. If he were a human being, living here in the US, social services would be on his ass in a heartbeat.

[guillaumeb]

66. And you build on that same old argument.

A house built on sand cannot stand.

[Act_of_Reparation]

73. So if Ford designed a car that killed 2% of its passengers...

...you'd get down on your knees and thank them for the valuable learning opportunity they've provided us.

[guillaumeb]

74. Your premise is faulty, unless you can demonstrate that Ford, or an agency,

designed for death.

By your logic, the universe must be evil because negative outcomes exist. When arguments such as this are made, the assumption on the part of the debater is that God is evil because God allows evil to exist.

People fall down, not because of God, but because of gravity and other issues.

If I hit my finger with a hammer, I blame my own technique.

[BlueTexasMan]

19. The elephant

The blind men gather around the elephant . Each man is a pioneer to be respected for reaching out and struggling to understand the nature of the elephant. Some of them try to describe what they experience, some proclaim loudly that they are certain they understand all about the elephant. We are but fleas on the elephant, jumping off onto certain men usually due to our proximity to that man. Most fleas take for granted that their hosts speak the truth and it usually is the truth as far as that blind messenger can relate. Why? Because the elephant is infinite. Don't worry about how the chicken lays the egg. Worry about where the chicken lays the egg. We can't understand the infinite because we are finite. We can make observations however. Studies in hospitals have shown prayer works. (This not woo woo!) A real test of the power in religion is using the golden rule. It doesn't matter if Jesus said that or Mr. Data said that. It works. Try it and you'll be amazed at the results. Try paying it forward. This is a powerful concept and can have wondrous and unexpected results. Don't ask why, ask what you can do. Take action, get moving! On a closing note, I'll leave this famous prayer;
O God,give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, the courage to change what can be changed, and the wisdom to know the one from the other. AMEN and peace be with you.

[edhopper]

23. In science

the men would get together and use their joint data to approximate the elephant.

In theology, they would kill each other.

The other answer to this elephant in the room bullshit is, at least the men felt something tangible, as opposed to a God for which there is no evidence there is anything at all. The infinite elephant for which there is no observable footprint.

[Cartoonist]

22. Billy Graham's daughter checks in.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213196913

Theists are as evil as their God.

[Iggo]

24. Put your shades on before you click that link.

Friendly warning.

[FiveGoodMen]

78. Holy crap! You weren't kidding.

[elleng]

26. It's nature.

[Cartoonist]

29. Fine

Then I don't want to hear any bullshit about the glory and mercy of God. It's all nature. Thank you for saying God does not exist.

[elleng]

31. Thanks for saying it explicitly.

[Doodley]

39. The belief in nature and the belief in a God are not mutually exclusive.

Even Richard Dawkins does not rule out the existence of God and calls himself an agnostic. I am glad you know better than one of the most outspoken celebrity atheists.

[Cartoonist]

56. I see them as being different.

Nature is just nature. You turn nature into God by giving it sentience. Dawkins speaks for himself. I can disagree with him if I want.

[Act_of_Reparation]

63. Did God create nature?

[Loki Liesmith]

28. To get to the other side,

[Newest Reality]

52. Now,

That's a thread winna' to me.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. Why, it's to punish... somebody... for... something?

Depends on whom you want punished, and for what.

[Igel]

38. Evolution, of course.

Except that then you realize that the universe doesn't really care if you live or die and makes no provision for you.

Everything else, from religion to politics, literature and consumerism, boils down to trying to make meaning. And part of that meaning for humans is to make tribes and acquire rank in those tribes, and oppose my tribe against your tribe. Because without the constant fighting and bickering, there's less self-importance and meaning.

Until the universe drops some sort of galactic Lysol on Earth and we're all gone and it's all been meaningless. Without there being anybody there to even judge our existence as meaningless--for that would require somebody noticed and actually had to consider if there had been meaning.

My son used to have a rather large tank with Madagascan cockroaches. You could hear the males hissing as they challenged each other for territory.

Then my son lost interest in them. We didn't notice when he stopped feeding them. They slowly ate through the cardboard scaffolding. Then corpses. Then there were a few dozen on top of a mass of cockroach feces and remains. I walked near their tank one day, got a whiff of the scent, I put them outside in January. It was cold enough a week later that they all died of cold.In March I dumped them in the garden and turned them under. You could see bits of exoskeleton the next spring--durable stuff, chitin.

But in June my son asked where his cockroaches had gone. We're like those males hissing over a square inch of cardboard egg container, only of less importance. And they had somebody ask about them, long after they were gone.

We make our own meaning. Criticizing how somebody else makes their meaning because it's obviously wrong and saying this other utterly pointless and meaningless way of making meaning is right boils down to gentle hissing sounds.

[Doodley]

41. Good story. Well said.

[Major Nikon]

59. ...

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

50. 11th Grade Science Project.. can't wait until God matures! n/t

[gibraltar72]

51. She's really really pissed.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

53. My wife says that God is just culling the herd.

Now, if we can just get Trump to hold a rally with lots of Red Hatters stuffed into a confined space...

[Act_of_Reparation]

62. Sounds like a dick move.

Why is God such a dick?

[Voltaire2]

70. that would make your wife's god, once again, a mass murderer.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

72. Don't forget The Flood. I agree with the next post -- God's a prick sometimes, especially

in the Old Testament: "Kill your son, Abraham." "Wander around the desert for 40 years, Jews" (thus beginning the tradition of men refusing to ask for directions ). "Watch as everyone else gets to go across the River Jordan, Moses." "Here's a recipe for bread, Ezekiel; don't forget to cook it over human shit." Ezekiel 4:12 Here's an interesting story about Ezekiel bread.

Personally, I like the words printed in red (what Jesus said) that are in the small copy of the New Testament that my grandmother gave me when I was six. Having a Son seems to have mellowed God a little, although a little of the old one crept out when he appeared to forsake Jesus on the cross.

And just to end this thread in accordance with Godwin's Law, why would a merciful God let Hitler exist?

[AtheistCrusader]

60. I guess he should have worried more about bats and less about shellfish.

(I realize that the bat vector may not even be accurate, just riffing on a shitty meme)

[Permanut]

68. Very simple..

Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council says it's because of sin.

See, it ain't rocket science.

[FiveGoodMen]

76. The bigger picture is worse!

Last edited Tue Apr 7, 2020, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

The same god made us, all the while KNOWING that we couldn't please him.

Then he decided to keep us going after death so that he could torture us forever -- because the way HE made us was never going to be good enough for HIM!!!!

Then, later, he got himself temporarily killed.

Then came back.

Then disappeared without a trace (except rumors).

And he will still torture people forever if they doubt that story.

This virus thing is just one tiny example of what their Trump-wannabee god is like.

[Kablooie]

77. God needs to entertain himself sometimes too.

[Cartoonist]

81. +

+