It is OK to try and be like Jesus

[RobertEarl]

Jesus, it has been said, had great power.

He could have done anything he wanted.

He could have been King. Been the richest man ever.

But what he did was help the poor and freely healed the sick.

Those are the facts, according to the Bible.

So when people professing to believe the Bible and be followers of Jesus, then turn around and complain about helping the poor and healing the sick......grrrr

I get just a little po'd. I try to be a good Christian, because it is the right way to live and be a good member of society. So when i run into these hypocrites, it's like being delivered into temptation because they make me want to do evil by smacking them hard up side the head.

But of course i don't. What i do is remind them that Jesus wasn't in it for the money. That Jesus was not a capitalist - he was what they call a socialist.

[Angry Dragon]

1. and Jesus was a liberal ..................

[Lint Head]

2. He was so dedicated to his life that he was willing to be crucified for what he believed.

I think Jesus life 'template' is a good one to follow. Considering bigoted hypocrites want so badly to use the 2nd amendment solution I would say they are following the lives of the people who did the crucifying.

[longship]

3. Which fucking Jesus?

The Jesus of The Sermon on the Mount? The Jesus of Paul... I mean Saul... whoever? Of his alleged brother James? How about the powerless wimp in Mark who couldn't perform his magic in his home town, and whose apostles never seemed to catch on what he was about?

Or, my favorite, the first century version of Timothy Leary, John, the self-named Divine and his LSD trip entitled Revelation.

All portray different people. So, when somebody asks me WWJD, I respond, "Which Jesus?"

My only take away is that this has all the hallmarks of a fictional character. I cannot prove it, but I don't have to. There is no consistent history of him in the Bible and there is absolutely no history of him outside the Bible.

My favorite is that he was allegedly born in Betlehem, but was allegedly from Nazarreth, which didn't even exist when he was born.

Gotta love it. It's all made up stuff.

[Leontius]

29. You must be right on this because everyone you know is one dimensional aren't they?

No complexity, no different aspects to their being. everyone is just some kind of paper cutout figure in real life.

[Humanist_Activist]

43. A complex being is one who is flawed, otherwise they are one-dimensional, is Jesus flawed? n/t

[Leontius]

64. If you really believe that then I'm sorry for your life experience.

It must be awful to live in such a world.

[Humanist_Activist]

66. What life experience, we are talking about characters in books here...

Flawed characters are much more compelling and complex, make for more interesting reading.

[Starboard Tack]

72. Of course he was flawed. Doesn't mean he wasn't a cool guy.

I think it was his mom who supposedly wasn't flawed, but I seriously doubt Jesus or his dad knew about that.

[longship]

74. Meh! I was merely ridiculing people who claim absolute knowledge from the Bible. nt

Meh!

[Starboard Tack]

71. Whichever suits your taste.

When I was a Xian, I liked the humble one who fed the poor, helped the weak and stood up to the bullies. That guy is still a good role model. I don't know if it was made up or not. Doesn't matter. What's important is what we, as individuals take from any story and how we apply it to our lives. If it's intolerance, mockery, derision and hatred of others, then we didn't find the good fruit.

[longship]

73. I agree, although I am an atheist.

I am not against religious people, or their right to believe. I just don't like the Dodos running those religions, many who are getting very wealthy by it. That sounds more like fraud to me. But I do not believe in blaming the victim.

Peace.

[skepticscott]

75. By mockery

do you mean calling creationists "a bunch of dumbasses"? Or does that not count?

[trotsky]

76. Technically that probably falls under the category "derision."

And it's just one in a long list of examples of a blatant double standard that exists when it comes to what is allowed as "acceptable" speech from atheists vs. believers.

[Skittles]

4. just so you know

religion is not required for the "right way to live" and to be a "good member of society". TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY.

[trotsky]

7. Great point, Skittles.

Sad how many people think "Christian" = "good person."

[RobertEarl]

15. Ok

So what is necessary?

How should one live... what is the guide post ... what is necessary mindset that makes society successful?

Point: i am religious only in the sense that religio is a Greek word meaning: seeking the source of man.

i.e. I think we may be here due to a crashed space ship.

[Skittles]

19. guide post = crutch

you don't need that crutch - stand on your own and THINK for yourself

[RobertEarl]

20. Experience... wisdom... from reading history

Caring about the poor and the sick, like Jesus did, is cool. Wouldn't want to think any other way.

And certainly dislike someone such as you being so damned authoritarian and telling me what i should or shouldn't think. Or even that i don't.

Point: i don't go around telling atheists what they should do or how they should think. And this op is not directed at such. But by gawd they are drawn to this like a moth to a flame, eh?

[Skittles]

21. I care about the poor and sick, and DO something about it

why do you think "Christians" have a lock on good behavior, all evidence to the contrary? STOP IT ALREADY.

I'm not saying for you to ditch your religion - just stop thinking it is NEEDED to BE A GOOD PERSON.

[RobertEarl]

22. There you go again

Telling me what i should do....

And making up ideas that i never expressed and trying to pin those ideas on me.

Frankly, like i tell trotsky below, you too remind me of the religious freaks and how they go about trying to control everyone.

Edited to add: This was my 1,000th post on DU. And i am proud of the fact that i have identified the other side of the same coin. Meaning the religious freaks and how they try to control everyone and the anti-religious freaks who do the same.

[Skittles]

32. LOL

keep telling yourself that - I'll remember you the next time an "anti-religious freak" is at my door begging me to convert

[cbayer]

28. Also, you don't have to be religious to follow some of Jesus's teachings.

[trotsky]

31. How are they Jesus' teachings when they predate the time in which he allegedly lived?

[Skittles]

33. THANK YOU

it's as if Jesus was the first person on earth who ever cared about people

[Humanist_Activist]

45. Wow, thank you master Christian, for being that magnanimous, I feel so privileged!

Do you have any fucking idea how condescending and insulting you sound?

[cbayer]

57. What in the world are you going on about.

I say that one does not have to be a Christian to incorporate some of the good things that Christ taught into your life, and somehow that is condescending and insulting?

[Humanist_Activist]

65. So you don't have to be Christian to be a decent person, just adopt some of Jesus' teachings?

Thank you so much master Christian, for telling us non-Christians how to live good lives.

[cbayer]

67. I didn't say anything like that and I am not a master Christian.

What I said is you don't have to be religious to follow some of Christ's teachings. You also don't have to follow any of Christ's teachings. I am not telling you have to be christian to live a good life.

Far from it.

[mr blur]

5. The are very few "facts" in the bible

and the proven existence of your Jesus is not one of them, I'm afraid.

[trotsky]

6. The Christian logic that counters this is very simple.

Jesus wasn't a socialist; he did all these things because he was god. He never said the government should do things like feed the poor, or provide them with shelter or healthcare. He did it himself, and that means he wanted us - not government - to do it.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

8. Conservatives like to ignore why government started doing social welfare

One of the things I most dislike about conservatives is their ignorance of the real world. The reason that government got into the social welfare business is quite simple. Private charity, which does yeoman service for the most part, was simply unable to help everyone who needs help. I am sure that Jesus would approve of government money being used to help the poor. Certainly, he would think this is a better use of tax money than buying B-2 bombers at a billion dollars a crack.

[trotsky]

10. "I am sure that Jesus would approve of government money being used to help the poor."

And they are just sure he wouldn't.

Stalemate.

[RobertEarl]

11. That is my point

The ones who think Jesus would not approve of the government helping feed the poor and healing the sick .... are idiots.

[trotsky]

12. And they think you're an idiot.

Neither of you is going to convince the other, because you have wedded your political beliefs to your religious ones.

[RobertEarl]

13. You are wrong

I win every time. Its just until now hardly anyone ever stood up to them.

Why you feel that you can sit there and tell me that i can or can not do something reminds of how religious freaks operate.

[trotsky]

14. I can sit here and tell you this...

because it is the situation that exists in this country TODAY.

Thanks for comparing me to a religious freak, though. That's nice. Did the spirit of Jesus motivate you to say that?

[RobertEarl]

16. Compared?

Bulllshit. I said your way of talking reminds me of religious freaks ...... and now i'll say also the way they are authoritarian know it alls.

We know you don't know it all.... but you damn sure sound authoritarian..

[trotsky]

17. You're the one telling everyone else what Jesus REALLY meant...

and how everyone else is wrong, but *I'm* the authoritarian. Got it.

[RobertEarl]

18. everyone?

Look how wrong you can be....

I clearly stated in the op about how my actions are directed solely at those who profess to believe.

You seem to not even be able to read my simple words here... how could i expect you to begin to understand the words in the Bible? I don't expect you could, so that is why i directed my comments elsewhere.

[trotsky]

23. Doesn't matter who you claim to have directed your words at.

Here's what you declared:

"Those are the facts, according to the Bible."

But you accuse me of acting like an authoritarian. Whatever, guy. I must just be too stupid to understand what you REALLY meant by claiming to know the absolute truth of god.

[RobertEarl]

24. according to the Bible

Heck you even copied the words, but you don't even try and understand the context?

If you don't believe in the Bible, my comments in the op are not about you, or everyone.

But, if it makes you happy, you can consider that i do consider your words here as authoritarian. If you have a problem with that, well, 2bad.

[trotsky]

25. Hard to believe you're single.

I just don't understand how that could be. Good luck with the "chicks."

[RobertEarl]

26. I have had great luck, thanks

Why? because I listen to them and make ever attempt to understand what they are saying and how the feel.

And not try and tell them how they should think or act.

However, since i am a Christian, and someone comes around me and professes to be a Christian but do not think as i do as a Christian, i do attempt to get them to think about what it means to actually, y'know, be a Christian.

Are you a Christian?

You might ask yourself, if your position is so strong, why do you stoop to such personal questioning as you've done here? To me it shows a lack of faith in your position. Not that it matters, just an interesting observation about your words here, trotsky.

[trotsky]

27. Likewise, I'm sure.

Your personal questioning of me would therefore indicate a lack of faith in your position, would it not?

I started this thread by pointing out that the same logic you used in declaring that you know what Jesus wants us to do is in use by the religious right when they tell us what Jesus wants us to do.

You can scream all you want, drag me into it to compare me to a religious freak or an authoritarian, but that's what it comes down to: anytime one welds their political beliefs to their religious ones, they become inflexible, and compromise becomes impossible.

Thus the political stalemate we have today. It doesn't do anyone any good. I had hoped you'd see that, but instead you decided to attack me and my intelligence. Good luck convincing everyone you (and you alone) know what Jesus thinks.

[cleanhippie]

59. "If you have a problem with that, well, 2bad." Is that what jesus taught, too?

[cleanhippie]

58. Funny, your way of talking reminds me of religious freaks, too.

The phrase "pot, meet kettle" comes to mind.

[Skittles]

34. LOL

give up on that one trotsky - he's got it BAD

Well, I am off to my platelet appointment - yup, 100 minutes with a needle stuck in my arm for a product that is donated to cancer patients. I do this every month! Not because a man in a robe promises me a spot in heaven - just because I want to help that cancer patient!!!

[trotsky]

35. You just do what you do best, Skittles.

KICK SOME ASS!! Look at you, sending your little platelets off to kick ass elsewhere! My mom died of multiple myeloma, and she needed quite a few units of platelets toward the end. Thank you.

[Skittles]

37. thanks trotsky!

simple comments like yours are what keep me motivated....because I gotta tell you, waking up and 2:30PM (I am a night worker) and walking in 107 degree heat to a baked car to go donate for a couple of hours takes some motivation!

[RobertEarl]

39. Isn't that CUTE

trotsky wrote:

KICK SOME ASS!!

Actually, from what i have seen it was more like my ass got KISSED. Thanks to you two!

First off, if you don't believe in the Bible and the theology of mainstream Christianity, this whole posting wasn't even about you. But you made it about you and then i got my ass kissed! Thanks.

[mr blur]

54. You sure do have a strange idea of reality.

Oh yes - you're a Christian and you "believe in the Bible".

That would explain it.

[trotsky]

55. You're a fine example of a Christian, RobertEarl.

You keep on keepin' on.

[cleanhippie]

60. The only way you got your assed kissed

was from the brushing of the lips against the glutes while the cranium was being inserted and extracted to pontificate.

[jeepnstein]

30. You've got a good point there.

He really didn't have much use for worldly politics. He made it a point to stay out of it actually. We, as Christians, do Him a disservice when we try to put a party label on Him.

This will no doubt upset the people who see the world strictly through a political lens. And He warned us that would happen. So yes, it is very hard to be like Jesus.

[cbayer]

9. Nice post RobertEarl. Welcome to the Religion Group.

[RobertEarl]

41. Thanks cbayer

Is the complete lack of understanding and backawardness that my post drew from the peanut gallery here, happen often?

[cbayer]

56. Yes, it does. I suggest liberal use of the ignore feature for a much more positive experience.

[cleanhippie]

62. Translation: Stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la la la la I can't hear you"

Blissful ignorance, is it really that positive?

[cleanhippie]

61. Indeed, you posts most certainly had a "lack of understanding and backawardness"

that drew comments from the peanut gallery.

Welcome to the Religion group.

[Humanist_Activist]

36. Well, this post is insulting and bigoted against every non-Christian on the planet, congrats! n/t

[RobertEarl]

40. Heh

Clearly, the post was about those who profess to be Christians. Not about non-Christians.

So you too are kinda lost?

[Humanist_Activist]

42. Oh, I do apologize, please carry on conversing about your own superiority. n/t

[RobertEarl]

44. Nah

Lets talk about you. How could you be so mistaken?

How could anyone suppose that my op was directed at those who were not Christians?

[Humanist_Activist]

46. Allow me to ask...

I try to be a good Christian, because it is the right way to live and be a good member of society.

What did you mean by this?

[RobertEarl]

47. I ...

Did i say you should try to be a good Christian? Did I say anyone else should? I try....

It was about me, not you, not anyone, except for those who say they are Christians. Are you a Christian? If not then none of this was directed at you.

Question: is it bad to try to act like the Jesus that is presented in the Bible? The one who was a socialist more than a capitalist?

[Humanist_Activist]

48. Yes, because that character isn't what we would call good...

as pointed out in this thread, he was a racist against Greeks, he calls on his followers to abandon their families to follow him, he's irrational, and apocalyptic. Indeed, assuming he existed as even remotely portrayed in the Bible, he acted like a typical Apocalyptic Jewish preacher of the 1st century. He wasn't the first, or the last, and only later was this deification process done.

[RobertEarl]

50. I see your problem

You are an extremist.

Just like some of the Bible beaters i have run across. No tolerance, nor thought that you just. might. be. mistaken.

Different side of the same coin....

[Humanist_Activist]

52. An extremist about what? n/t

[Humanist_Activist]

53. Also, you are asking for my opinion on a mythological/legendary character, I don't understand...

what you are so upset about on that, nor what tolerance has to do with it. Would you like my analysis of Herakles instead?

[cleanhippie]

63. "I see your problem. You are an extremist."

Textbook projection, Robert. Well done.

[Humanist_Activist]

49. Also, that's not what you said in that post, the implication was that non-Christians don't...

"live right" at least according to your definition of what a "Good Christian" is.

[onager]

38. Why would I want to be a megalomaniacal religious fanatic?

Jesus, it has been said, had great power. - Only by people who never met him, years after he died. Not to mention all the editing later.

He could have done anything he wanted. - Apparently he just wanted to hang out with his bros, shooting off his mouth about everything under the sun. (Thanks, Blackadder!) And doing the occasional magic trick.

Oh, and he caused the Zombie Apocalypse of Jerusalem, according to Matthew. Which even I have to admit is kind of neat, and I'd love to see the movie based on it.

He could have been King... - Well, that was part of his problem. Judea already HAD a king, Herod Antipas. And like most kings, he didn't much care for competition. Especially not from scroll-thumping rubes with a habit of disturbing the peace.

At that time, there were entire regiments of ranting messiahs, crazed prophets and nutbar religious demagogues littering the Judean landscape.

One of them did lead a no-shit, full-blown rebellion against the state, which was crushed immediately by Pontius Pilate. But his name wasn't Jesus. He came along later, and he's only called "the Samaritan Messiah" by the Xians' favorite historian, Flavius Josephus.

But what he did was help the poor and freely healed the sick.

1. Well, not exactly. I recall an episode where Jesus orders some expensive oil to be wasted on washing his feet. Even one of his apostles complains that he should have sold the oil and given the money to the poor.

And those apostles are usually depicted as...um...well, not exactly the brightest torches in the Temple.

"The poor you will have with you always..." But it's REALLY all about ME ME ME! Ha! That's straight from the Gospel According To Ronald Reagan.

2. Freely healed the sick? How about the Greek woman who begs him to heal her daughter, and Jesus compares her to a "dog?" That story is told TWICE (Matthew & Mark), so it must be Really Important.

He eventually condescends to heal the girl. But as even Xian Apologeticist Kyle Butt M.A. (no, I didn't make that up - just Google him) is forced to admit:

"Even many religious writers and speakers view Jesus’ statements to the woman as unkind, intolerant, racially slurred, and offensive."

Yay Lib'rul Jesus!

Oh, and welcome to DU! See, I'm one of the NICE atheists!

(Edited for spelling.)

[patrice]

51. Jesus is a liberator. That's why his state-church killed him. Be prepared to be

thought a trouble maker.

[CJCRANE]

68. I agree with you.

If you're a Christian, then the way you live your life should be based on the purported words and actions of Jesus Christ as related in the New Testament.

That is the evidence needed to talk about what being a Christian is about and most of the evidence points to a more liberal message.

[dimbear]

69. We know what the Romans wanted Him to do and say, that's the NT. What He

may really have done and said is lost to history.

[skepticscott]

70. No, what he did

was to show off. Even assuming for the sake of argument (and no other reason) that Jesus was a god, and that at least some of the Bible is a relatively accurate account of his dealings with humans, he could have, with a wave of his hand, ensured that there were no poor or sick people anywhere at all, ever again. Instead, he chose to pick out only a very, very few of the poor (and not even sure about how many poor people he helped) and sick people within his reach to assist (often with a bunch of witnesses to spread his fame), and let the rest suffer. What a guy.