Religion
Related: About this forum73% of Protestant Pastors Reject the Theory of Evolution
When asked if God used evolution to create people," 73% of pastors disagreed - 64% said they strongly disagreed - compared to 12% who said they agree.
Asked whether the earth is approximately 6,000 years old, 46% agreed, compared to 43% who disagreed.
A movement called Young Earth creationism promotes the 6,000-year-old figure, arguing that it is rooted in the Bible. Scientists say the earth is about 4.5 billion years old.
The Southern Baptist Convention survey, which queried 1,000 American Protestant pastors, also found that 74% believe the biblical Adam and Eve were literal people.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/10/survey-u-s-protestant-pastors-reject-evolution-split-on-earths-age/?hpt=hp_t3
Wow, liberal Christians have some work to do.
There's some serious ignorance and denial out there.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)They are not the face of Christianity in this country.
Right?
rexcat
(3,622 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)but they do not represent all Christians. They are the Taliban of America. I remember meeting a 5th grade teacher in WV who believed the same nonsense. It shocked me because my daughter was in 5th grade at the time. The same teacher also thought soap opera characters were real people.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)This survey coincides with just about every similar one from Pew et al.
edhopper
(33,575 posts)another way of knowing about this that science doesn't understand.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)I don't have numbers to back this up, but it's my suspicion that this number has been on the increase in recent decades.
I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I don't remember evolution and, for that matter, abortion, being all that controversial until the mid-80's or so.
I suppose they're outbreeding us. {sigh}
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Anyone else able to find it? I wanted to look at their methods and tools.
In particular, I want to see how they "randomly" selected their 1,000 participants and exactly what questions were asked. I would also be very interested in how their "random" selection broke down demographically.
It should also be noted who performed the survey - hardly a neutral group.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)They say random wrighted for geographical distribution. How much more detail does any survey group offer?
So now you don't believe protestant church groups on what protestant preachers believe? Would you believe them were the results less in line with what atheists have been saying all along - that sophisticated theology is a minority viewpoint among US believers and even clergy?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Most surveys allow you to dig down into their methods, tools and demographics. How does one go about selecting 1,000 random Protestant ministers?
I don't take surveys done by partisan parties very seriously, no matter who does them. I do not reject the hypothesis that sophisticated theology is a minor viewpoint. I just question whether this particular survey is really a valid tool in proving or disproving that hypothesis.
For all the strong support of science and scientific method that is professed here, it is *interesting* to see a survey like this rather unquestioningly accepted. It is not the first time that parties have embraced *results* that supported their position, and I doubt it will be the last.
Jim__
(14,075 posts)They don't give a detailed description of how they selected the pastors - they give a short blurb about it, and they do give somewhat of a breakdown by region, by denomination type (mainline or evangelical), and by education level - bachelors or graduate. It's here: https://s3.amazonaws.com/bhpub/edoc/Protestant-Pastors-Views-on-Creation.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=1FAF154W9TVZ6M3REZG2&Expires=2114895307&Signature=PIcvuvUsIYGwelzOt5urfXExwaA%3D
It also states that the results were weighted - I believe by churches per region.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Interesting breakdown by region and level of education. Not quite sure what that "weighted for geographic distribution part" is all about.
Also very interesting that they didn't give any data on which denominations they reached and surveyed.
Jim__
(14,075 posts)dmallind
(10,437 posts)Pew's long-established surveys show very similar results amongst believers at large. Expected results generally get less scrutiny than unusual ones.
I find the projection risible - there you are all a-skeptic about this survey and in the same breath pontificating about others basing their reaction on how much they like the results.....
cbayer
(146,218 posts)so I am indeed skeptical. See my response below with link to Pew survey of protestant denominations and their positions. The key here is that most Protestant denominations have taken the position that evolution and biblical teachings are not incompatible. The question that was asked here is specifically whether god could have used evolution in the creation of man.
Sorry for the pontificating. Low shot and uncalled for
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)Yeah, that's sure going to be a fairly done poll. Not too different than if Rick Santorum released a poll showing him beating Obama.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)They are the largest Baptist denomination and the largest Protestant organization. They are pretty representative, then, of Protestants in the US?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Resolution On Scientific Creationism
June 1982
WHEREAS, The theory of evolution has never been proven to be a scientific fact, and
WHEREAS, Public school students are now being indoctrinated in evolution-science, and
WHEREAS, Creation-science can be presented solely in terms of scientific evidence without any religious doctrines or concepts, and
WHEREAS, Public school students should be taught all the scientific evidence on the subject of the origin of the world and life, and
WHEREAS, Academic freedom and free speech should be encouraged rather than inhibited.
Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the Southern Baptist Convention in session in New Orleans, Louisiana, June 1982, express our support for the teaching of Scientific Creationism in our public schools.
www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=967
While many other protestant denominations have taken a more measured approach (Episcopals, Lutherans, Presbyterians, UCC, Methodists), SBC has stood steadfastly by it's denial of evolution. These other denominations have taken the position that evolution is not incompatible with biblical teachings, basically saying that God could use it to create man. Here is a good link:
http://www.pewforum.org/Science-and-Bioethics/Religious-Groups-Views-on-Evolution.aspx
The exact question asked in this survey was whether God could use evolution in that manner.
They have a vested interest in the answer being no.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)If only the rest of the US voted like California did.
There's about 16 million Southern Baptists in the US and over 150 million Protestants. So the Southern Baptists barely make up 10% of Protestants. And they are not representative most Protestants, for example most Protestant denominations ordain women, the Southern Baptists do not.
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)Legalism, when it rears it's head, is quite a sight to behold. I recently heard a preacher state his case for a 6,000 year old Earth and then proceed to demand that anyone who rejected his claim be disciplined by the church. Simply put, it was his way or the highway because he was so sure he was right. And he went on to state quite strongly that anyone who rejected his claims were in effect denying the Bible in it's entirety and therefore committing the one unforgivable sin. It had to be his way because he was so sure he was right. And about half the congregation that day fell in line. I thought back to the letter I saw once proudly on display in the Vatican where they were going to condemn Galileo for his scientific research. At least they owned up to their mistake on that one.
There are those of us who don't believe the whole thing is that simple. That God's methodology might be a wee bit more complex than a literal interpretation of the first eleven chapters of Genesis. Given that they have to jump through all sorts of intellectual hoops just to make those eleven chapters say what they insist they say I'm betting that they're just as wrong as I am on what it all really means. And like little children at some level or another we simply trust Him when we see the scientific data put forward that it most likely wasn't all created in 144 hours. Science doesn't necessarily have to shake one's faith in God. But there are people who would put us into a position of being driven from our church if we reject their legalism.
It has nothing to do with science. It's all about men seeking control over the church and promoting their agendas instead of doing the work we are charged with doing in the Great Commission. It's a tremendous time waster, money waster, and ultimately it loses more souls than it saves.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)do they also believe in talking snakes??
and if they do how come snakes lost that ability over the 6,000 years??
MarkCharles
(2,261 posts)the second law of thermodynamics!
Response to LAGC (Original post)
Angry Dragon This message was self-deleted by its author.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)from the article: The Southern Baptist Convention survey, which queried 1,000 American Protestant pastors,
lemme guess which denomination those 1000 pastors were from. probably explains why the results are a bit, um, skewed.
One thing I've learned from my years on DU is to always question results like this. 73% of HOW MANY? how many were polled? who was polled?
I strongly doubt that 73% of ALL Protestant religious leaders (the term "pastors" is a give-away, since not all denominations have pastors) are such dumb asses.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)Random as clearly noted. Also clearly noted was that they talked to the senior religious leader regardless of title.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 12, 2012, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Most of the ones that I've met got a 40-year liberal arts degree and then went on to divinity school.
They may know a lot about being a pastor and about interacting with their parishoners, but they have very limited real-world experience, including essentially no scientific training. Most have no clue about the work life of the men in their congregation, except for the few that were employed in other occupations before the "call".
cbayer
(146,218 posts)of those surveyed.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)in all our past.
LAGC
(5,330 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve#Science
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
Leontius
(2,270 posts)the genetic evidence does seem to add up for the more recent Out of Africa disperal and replacement as what happened. I think Wolpoff may be fighting a losing battle but there have been some studies indicating that regional populations were not eliminated but just submerged in the genetic pool of modern man.