three areas of hope for 2013

[Thats my opinion]

There is a substantial difference between optimism and hope.
Optimism supposes that everything will turn out well. Hope is less certain, but finds possibilities in present events.
While these days there exists a solid coterie of pessimists who know that the sky is falling, I’ll leave the crepe hanging to the crepe hangers. Here are a three things in the religious world which are on my hope list for 2013.

1-Religion in America will decreasingly be dominated by
Christian fundamentalists, as the American people realize that fundamentalism does not define authentic Christian faith.

2-The millions of younger people who claim to be spiritual but not religious will begin to find new ways to make concrete that perception. This will mean new forms of church-like structures, without doctrinal barriers or ecclesial control. The survival of mainline Protestantism will depend on its exploration of these new forms. This will mean the painful act of giving up many of the old forms.

4-The growing movement in American Catholicism will flower into new forms of faith which will finally recognize the equal role of women, and will be increasingly free from conservative male-dominated control by the Vatican. This may mark the beginning of a new reformation now taking root in the US. This movement will discover new ways to be faithfully catholic.

[tama]

1. re 2

What do you mean by "church-like structures"? Hierarchic institutions, which is the first association, or more like early "church" of just people getting together and sharing experiences?

And is "survival" of mainline Protestantism really important and if so, why? And compared to other -isms? What exactly is worth preserving by exporing and adapting new forms in "mainline Protestantism"?

Amish communal self-sufficient and low-tech way of life is hardly counted as mainline protestantism but as fundamentalism - perhaps in the positive sense of the word, as the non-violent teachings of Christianity are taken as fundaments, founding principles and mentalities. And as you know well, Amish and other similar communities seem very adaptive and strong from evolutionary point of view. At least much more so than "mainline" Protestantism.

[Thats my opinion]

6. Good questions

Let me identify the “non-institutional structures,” I’m talking about. This is not conjecture, about what might happen. These things are already happening.
Let me describe just three I know about.
1-For a number of years across the country, and beyond, there has developed something called “Women’s Church.” Catholic and Protestant women who have escaped the male domination of most religion meet in groups 20-40 around liturgies which they develop independent of their former church allegiances. They draw no only on traditional women’s concerns and ancient religious systems, but may include the Eucharist or other forms of the traditional church. Much time is spent in sharing and conversation. There is no designated clergy, but turns are taken and all share in the homemade liturgies.

2-In a large United Methodist church, a group of 75 meet weekly in a room far removed from the church’s main worship center. Lay members of the group design the gathering the week before. It often includes, readings, story telling, art, dance, new songs and conversation. People bring their personal experiences and hopes to the group.

3-A group of young adults in North Ireland meet Sunday evenings in a bar. There they tell stories around their drinks—usually, but not always from some religious tradition. There is visual imagery, personal sharing, and more. If you are interested in the format and some of the stories, and the services, they have been collected inn a book “The Orthodox Heretic” by Peter Rollins

When I have discussed this phenomenon elsewhere, I am flooded with other examples. There are now hundreds of such groups. The great majority of these “nones” are expatriates of some conservative religious system that they can no longer tolerate. If there is a commonality it is food!

Many of the “meetings” take place on the Internet or in social networks. Most of the participants have gone in and out of their angry phase, which they found as unproductive as their former religious experience, and are looking for meaning in what they were told is a meaningless world. They have discovered that the best place to find meaning is in relationship with others on a similar quest.
Trying to find meaning in isolation proved as futile as just being angry.

There are no leaders, and no formal organization, although sociologically we have called these groups part of the “emerging church.”

[tama]

9. Sounds good

and the nice freudian slip typo " collected inn a book" gave me a chuckle, thanks for that.

Just had a little talk with okasha about native "pagan" or shamanistic traditions, which have been greatly reviving during the decades I've seen, and Christianity, and also on that field I've seen a lot of ecumenical community and cooperation which concentrates more on the experiental than the intellectual and dogmatic side.

[Thats my opinion]

13. Being dyslexic I never learned to spell.

Why shouldn't inn have two nns?

The women's groups I know something about are deeply appreciative of the "pagan" and shamanistic traditions.

Modern religions--and I mean anything in the western or Abramic traditions--do not have a corner on meaning or ways to express it.

[tama]

17. Is there any difference in pronunciation between in and inn?

Example in sentence: "To share our spiritual experiences in the good company of couple pints of beer, we gathered in an inn"?

Perhaps you don't disagree very much with my opinion that those modern religions you refer to got a bit lost on part of their journey. And that you never get lost also without finding something. Coelho's Alchemist is nice and very popular allegory on that subject.

[Thats my opinion]

19. makes sense to me. nt

[trotsky]

2. Fundamentalism is just as "authentic" a version of Christianity...

as yours. Who are you to judge the validity of other people's beliefs? That's quite arrogant and disrespectful of you.

The millions who don't affiliate with any particular religion might just stay the course. Why do you think it's necessary to form "church-like structures"? Perhaps it's time for society to move away from these "church-like structures" entirely and embrace non-institutionalized morality. Religion has fought social progress every step of the way throughout history.

And for Catholics, that's a hopelessly delusional wish. Their church is controlled and run by conservative old men. The one thing Catholics could do to change their church is to leave it, and join other religious groups that are already embracing the modern secular values of gender, racial, and sexual preference equality.

[JoeyT]

3. #4 already happened.

I think they're called Lutherans.

[Adsos Letter]

5. LOL!

Ah, sorry...that one cracked me up.

[Thats my opinion]

8. The thing about reformation is, it is a continual process. These Catholics

will never be Lutherans. But they will birth some new form of reformation.

[tama]

10. Women priesthood

in Lutheran state churches is very new development.

[JoeyT]

12. So is their support for gay marriage.

Still, when I hear "Progressive church that's like Catholicism", my first thought is "Lutheran".

The Catholic church's "We should take care of the poor, but you should vote for Republicans because of icky gays and uppity women wanting birth control." position is pretty new too.

[tama]

16. Lutheran state churches

in Northern Europe haven't always been very "progressive". They get to be so very much because they are state churches and as such have to respond to changes in public opinion.

[Thats my opinion]

20. I don't have exact statistics,

but if you look at the states with a predominant Catholic population--including Hispanic communities--it will be clear that they voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates. Another indication that the hierarchy has lost its zip.

[mr blur]

4. Re. No 2

The millions of younger people who claim to be spiritual but not religious will begin to find new ways to make concrete that perception.

Why? Why do they need to?

We are all spiritual beings but not all religious.

[Thats my opinion]

7. I doubt if they need to explain "Why" to you or to anyone.

It is their need which is unprovoked except from within.

Bobby Dylan?--if you don't understand just get out of the way.

[dimbear]

11. If you're a fan of the series "The Closer" you may remember Lt. Provenza IIRC

telling the excited suspect to put down the knife. "Put down the knife before I count five or I will shoot you dead"

1........2.........4(!!!).......

and the suspect puts down the knife.

I'm just guessing that's the allusion.

[Thats my opinion]

14. Being a Bayer of small brain, I missed that one. Could you explain? nt

[dimbear]

15. Just assumed that the reason you numbered as you did was an insider's reference to the show.

Last edited Wed Jan 2, 2013, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

There are other possible explanations, of course. That numbering system worked very well for Lieutenant Provenza.

Happy New Year!

BTW, I liked your A A Milne allusion, and would like to quote a favorite Milne line:

"Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them."

[tama]

18. And some weed flowers

are called buds - and many other names -, once you get to know them.

[Thats my opinion]

21. I deal with a lot of flowers some people think are weeds.

And I guess you do too.

And I never saw the show. alas

[dimbear]

22. It's worth catching for Kyra Sedgwick. She is fabulous.

Speaking of mystery shows, tho, hardly anyone remembers that A A Milne once wrote a mystery novel, The Red House Mystery. It's famous for being one of the most unlikely plots ever hatched from an author's brain.

One thing that I've noticed about weeds is that they depend for their identity on geography. Weeds in one area, desirable plants in another. POV. Or weeds in one era, desirable plants in another time. Or even just being called by a different name can shift a plant from one pile to the other. It's no wonder they show up in so many metaphors.