Religious support and opposition to same-sex marriage

[kwassa]

this is from a larger article about how the public generally supports same-sex marriage

Opposition to same-sex marriage narrow and concentrated, study finds

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/opposition-to-same-sex-marriage-narrow-and-concentrated-study-finds/2013/03/06/99bfc3cc-8688-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394_story.html

Overall, the 2012 exit polls, which were conducted in 31 states, showed 49 percent supporting same-sex marriage in their states and 46 percent opposing it. The pollsters found that opposition centered primarily in a few demographic groups.

Voters age 65 and older expressed opposition to allowing such unions in their states by a 21-point margin, with 37 percent supporting them and 58 percent opposing. Those younger than 65 favored them by eight points, 52 percent to 44 percent.

The disparity was even greater among religious groups, broken down along racial lines. White evangelical Christians opposed same-sex marriage by nearly 3 to 1. But every non-evangelical group — other white Protestants, white Catholics, Hispanic Catholics, African American non-evangelicals and Jewish voters — expressed support for such unions by double-digit margins.

Meanwhile, African American voters who described themselves as evangelical or born again were narrowly divided, with 45 percent saying their state should recognize same-sex marriage and 47 percent saying it should not.

[skepticscott]

1. The fact remains

that if it were not for religious opposition to the legalization of same-sex marriage, it would be legal everywhere in this country already. The only reason it isn't is that these "minorities" somehow keep managing to elect politicians who oppose it rabidly, or who are in thrall to those who do.

[kwassa]

2. I disagree.

It isn't religious opposition to legalization, the opposition comes from changing what has been considered a western cultural norm of the past many centuries, that marriage is between a man and a woman. Religion reflects the culture around it, that's all. Minds are changing everywhere about same-sex marriage, and as this article points out, most people of most religions support same-sex marriage.

Here is another demographic opposed to same-sex marriage:

Another “pocket of opposition,” the pollsters said, is white voters who do not have a college degree. Only 40 percent of them supported same-sex marriage, compared with 56 percent who opposed it. Other groups supported such unions: by 54 percent to 38 percent among non-white, non-college graduates; 56 percent to 41 percent among white college graduates; and 58 percent to 35 percent among non-white college graduates.

[skepticscott]

3. Good news everyone!

Religious opposition to gay marriage is inconsequential. Fantastic!

But tell you what...let's try an experiment...you compile a list of all of the atheist, anti-theist and humanist organizations that have declared adamant opposition to gay marriage, and I'll make a list of all the religious organizations that have. Then we'll compare lists. Deal?

[kwassa]

4. A pointless exercise.

This is only about your well-known hatred of religion, really, and has little to do with the issue of same-sex marriage. You wish to claim a moral high ground by being an atheist. Good luck with that.

I would suggest that some of the demographic opposed to same-sex marriage hasn't been anywhere near a church in a very long time. Many social conservatives are not the slightest bit religious.

[skepticscott]

6. The fact that you can see that it's pointless

Actually makes my point very nicely, thank you. And I'm claiming no "moral high ground", merely pointing out undeniable fact...there are many, many religious groups that oppose same sex marriage vigorously, but none on the atheist side.

And "you suggest"? Do you have any hard facts at all to support that? The fact that people don't go to church any more does not mean they are not religious or motivated by religion. Where is the strong, organized opposition from these non-religious social conservatives? Even if it existed, you and I both know that if all of the religious groups who opposed same sex marriage withdrew their opposition or (perish forbid) actually threw their support behind it, it would be federal law in no time.

[kwassa]

8. Like I said, your comparison was and is pointless.

It means nothing. There are not many, many religious groups that oppose same-sex marriage vigorously; as the article you apparently failed to read read that all the numbers were on the side of the religious supporters of same-sex marriage. Sorry that point passed you by. Go read the article and learn.

There was nothing about atheism in the article, you drew the comparison yourself to indicate a moral high ground for atheists in comparison to religious organizations. There is no other reason to introduce atheism into this discussion in the first place.

and how many atheist groups even exist and take social positions? In comparison to church organizations, please. Atheists here often talk about how they don't like being lumped together with anyone.

Speaking of moving goalposts, you continually like to add new criteria to the argument, a new hoop you wish me to jump through. My suggestion was just that, a suggestion. The world of conservatives consists of many different factions, some religious, some not. If you would like to contest my suggestion, you can conduct your own research.

[nonoyes]

9. How many do you need when the Catholic Church opposes it?

That represent's about a billion "religious" folks of the seven billion on this Earth, give or take a few million one way or the other.

Add to that the Mormon church, Islam, and a few dozen other Christian sects and we're approching a couple billion.

There are not many, many religious groups that oppose same-sex marriage vigorously

How many religious folks do you need to say that there are "many"?

I think when we talk about Catholicism and Islam, we are talking about "many" religious folks in this world.

There's that LDS one, the Mormons, the truly American fundamentalist small group of several millions who shove lots of money into anti-gay politics, in case you hadn't noticed.

But you can move the goal posts further than those FEW religions if you like. Let's face it, most of the anti-gay-rights folks at work in America today have ties to some religion or other.

[skepticscott]

11. The point was and is

that the only opposition worth mentioning to same sex marriage, that the only influence on politicians against it that is of any significance, is religiously motivated. The only reason to introduce atheism was to highlight that fact. Do you acknowledge or deny that if all religiousopposition to same sex marriage were to end tomorrow, that passing a federal law guaranteeing that right would not be difficult at all?

And your "suggestion" was advanced in support of an argument that had nothing else going for it. It was plucked out of thin air with no factual support, and dismissed on that basis.

[Humanist_Activist]

5. Religion isn't just a reflection of culture, it influences it as well...

ancient Rome and some other Mediterranean cultures were, at many points in history, quite tolerant of homosexuality. In addition, this change in attitudes recently is just that, recent(within a decade), most as a result of older generations dying and younger generations being much more accepting.

[edhopper]

7. I am sure glad that

that $50 million from the Mormon Church didn't swing the vote on Prop 8 in California.

Oh, wait.....

[cbayer]

10. Good news. That's progress. And David Lane can just shut up now

“We need to decide whether we are a Christian nation or a pagan nation and get on with it. The glory of a nation lies in its righteousness.”