Selections from P Z Myers' panel coments at EWTS*

[intaglio]

* Empowering Women Through Secularism conference
Link

I've been campaigning for atheism for about 20 years now, and I have a terrible confession to make. In the beginning, I had this naive optimism that leaving religion behind would make people better people — maybe not perfect, but it would set them on the right path to reasonable lives. Obviously, I’ve been increasingly disillusioned, as it has become clear that many atheists are, well, jerks. There’s nothing about atheism that is sufficient to make a good person: atheism is not enough. But also, I would add that there’s nothing about secularism that is sufficient to make a good state. Secularism is not enough; we also have to select good secular values.

/snip

Religion is, and always has been a tool for authoritarianism. By its very nature it imposes a vision of our interactions with each other and the world that is hierarchical and ordered and linear — the orders come from above. You will obey them. And further, the concept of faith is antithetical to transparency — you cannot question those orders, because there is no path for verification. You are expected to trust but not verify, and accept without reason.

/snip

I think I can safely say that any set of values that limits the potential of half the population, that reduces the health and happiness of one gender, or race, or class, is empirically detrimental to the long-term viability of the whole. I can definitely say that there is no objective reason one could argue that being born a woman, or black, or poor should make any individual a lesser contributor to our fully shared humanity.

The whole thing is well worth a read

[cbayer]

1. Agree, this is worth the read.

His argument is sound and I am glad to see him taking this stand.

Thanks for posting.

[longship]

2. PZ is known as a fire brand, but he's really Minnesota nice.

His Blog persona is an alter ego, one he presents as an evil cephalapodal entity. But in reality he is gentle as a lamb.

I like him a lot.

And he is absolutely correct about the ill behaved people in both the sacred and secular communities who he is not too shy to take to the woodshed when necessary.

That's the evil cephalopodal part. I like that part of him, too.

[cbayer]

3. That's an interesting description of him.

I go back and forth. While I found his most recent column on a visit to a catholic church juvenile and offensive, I found this piece very articulate and mature.

I think we all toy with our different personae on the internet.

[longship]

4. And PZ is quite clear that he does it.

But when one reads his Blog regularly one sees that he is clearly putting on his rabble rousing persona. He pokes fun at himself regularly (always a good sign).

[cbayer]

5. This is probably why I walk away with a different impression of him depending on what I read.

I do give him big kudos for addressing the issue of sexism within the atheist community...

and for doing it in a very measured and non-inflammatory way.

[okasha]

6. Myers has pretty consistently

come down on the right side on women's issues. Credit where due.

[dimbear]

7. Co-panelist Nina Sankari has her say at another venue:

http://www.internationalfreethought.org/spip.php?article80

"One would think that the Enlightenment and the centuries that followed it, marked by the great success of science, have crushed religions ("ecraser l’infame&quot along with religious wars, their hatred of progress and freedom. But we learn, alas! that in the 21st century the sound of bells and the muezzins or cantors chants continue their efforts to mute the voice of freedom of conscience. In fact, they will simply accompany the much more discreet sound: the rustle of money."




edit: Dimbear cannot spell verry welll

[intaglio]

8. Say you are a follower of G B Shaw

and that ghoti spells fish.

[dimbear]

9. Oh yes, Pygmalion is a wonderful play, and one of the most erudite ever.

Not the most liberated view of women, tho.