The Advocate: The Religious Folks Are With Us

[cbayer]

http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2013/07/02/op-ed-religious-folks-are-us

Why faith communities are one of the most important groups to win over when it comes to winning marriage equality.
BY ALAN VAN CAPELLE JULY 02 2013 4:10 AM ET



I get asked a lot by progressive friends, who know my long involvement in the fight for marriage equality, “How are we going to beat the church folk?”

Here’s the thing: The “church folk” are with us. In fact, we couldn’t have gotten this far without them. And we aren’t going to win full equality nationwide unless we meet them where they are and bring them with us.

I have spent years organizing around marriage equality, previously as executive director of the Empire State Pride Agenda and now as CEO of Bend the Arc, a national progressive Jewish coalition. In that time I have learned that the angry talking heads on cable news who claim to be religious leaders, condemning marriage equality as ungodly, are not speaking for all or even most people of faith.

Let me start with the people I know best, my own people, American Jews. At Bend the Arc we’ve been mobilizing American Jews in support of gay marriage for years and have seen tremendous turnout at our marches and vigils and through our online campaigns. It’s not surprising when you realize that 81% of American Jews support marriage equality — that’s higher than any other single constituency in America, with the exception of gay and lesbian people themselves.

More at link

[WovenGems]

1. Yup

It has to be done by the people within each church. Outside forces are always viewed as evil or misinformed.

[cbayer]

2. Agree. A lot of change is taking place at the local level.

But there are also strong coalitions that have formed that are helping change things at a higher level, and that's good.

[Goblinmonger]

3. Numbers I have seen put this claim into question

It’s not surprising when you realize that 81% of American Jews support marriage equality — that’s higher than any other single constituency in America, with the exception of gay and lesbian people themselves.

88% of "nones" support gay marriage.

[trotsky]

4. And of course the unasked question is...

why do these wonderful religious people have to be "won over" in the first place?

Yeah, of course religious people are key. They're the majority. That's what makes them important, not that they are religious. Oy.

[edhopper]

14. The other unstated thing

that needs to be stated. Objections to same sex marriage are 99.7% religious.
Religion is the driving force of disenfranchisement here.

[cbayer]

15. Even more reason that we should strongly support the religious organizations and

individuals who are fighting for equality, don't you think?

[edhopper]

16. Well if you are religious yes.

And condemn those that are wrong.

But I don't see the need to support any religious organization.

[cbayer]

17. Well, maybe not support them, but perhaps refrain from tearing them down.

when they are doing the right thing and are clearly on your team.

[edhopper]

18. You do understand

that I think the reason for their very existence is a myth? That they spend the majority of their time dwelling on things that don't exist? That praying and trying to discern the whims of God is a monumental waste of time and resources?

If you think confronting these beliefs as not based in reality is "tearing them down", so be it.

[cbayer]

19. You can think whatever you want. I don't really care much.

What I do care about are those that take the beliefs you hold (as stated) and use them to attack those who experience the world differently.

What difference does it make to you if they are not infringing on yours or others rights? Particularly if they are working for causes you also support.

[edhopper]

20. When you say "tear down"

I assumed you meant my arguments against religion on this forum. Or do you imaging I am working at some cabal to destroy the churches in this country.

I would ignore them, if not for the fact that so many churches and religious folk are trying very hard to have a negative effect on me and my country.

Or should I not be concerned with what is happening in Texas for instance, or that my Gay friends were one vote away from losing their rights?

[cbayer]

21. A cabal? No, not at all, lol.

To be honest I was reacting to this particular thread. This is a good news story and I find it disappointing that anyone would take the opportunity to use it to rail against religion in general.

Anyone can, of course, say anything they want. But when people go out of their way to say something negative in the face of something good, one may wonder what their objective is.

Of course you should be concerned with what is happening and the influence the religious right has in this country. I am very concerned about that.

You don't have to support the groups that are working to counteract that, but I just don't see the point in undermining them by dismissing what they are doing and pointing out how bad religion is in general.

[edhopper]

22. Yes, I did do that. Wasn't thinking about it, but I did.

I was responding to another reply here and not the OP.

But what they are doing is a good thing

[cbayer]

23. Thank you so much, edhopper.

It takes a real gentleman and a real gentle man to say that, and I appreciate it very much.

[edhopper]

24. Your welcome

I have no problem admitting I was wrong, fortunately I rarely have to do it.

[cbayer]

25. Aha! You are a saint just like my husband!

He rarely has to admit he is wrong either.

[edhopper]

26. I have a feeling my wife

would at my response and then

[LostOne4Ever]

11. +infinity (nt)

[Rob H.]

5. It might be more accurate to say "Some Religious Folks Are With Us"

I live in the Bible Belt and there's very little support for marriage equality among churches in the city in which I live. The only two I can think of are an American Baptist church that was disfellowshipped from the Southern Baptist Convention for their progressive views on sexual orientation and gender equality and a United Church of Christ church. It even made the news a couple of years when three Presbyterian churches voted to split away and became Evangelical Presbyterian churches because they disagreed with the PC(USA)'s views on gay clergy. I can't imagine that it's much different across the American south.

Note: That's a quibble with The Advocate's headline; I know you didn't write it.

[cbayer]

6. Agree and I think the author is clear that he is talking about some, not all.

Good to hear that there are two churches in your community that are supporting marriage equality. That's a good sign in the bible belt, imo. I am sure there are still communities where there are none.

[Rob H.]

7. The really depressing thing is

that there was a constitutional amendment on the ballot in 2006 to define marriage as solely between a man and a woman and it passed 81% to 19%, which means a lot of otherwise sensible liberals thought,"Ick! The gays!" and voted for it. (FTR, same-sex marriage was already against state law.) I thought we were supposed to be better than that.

[cbayer]

8. I see you are in Tennessee. Is there anything happening there like the "Moral Mondays" in NC?

I wonder if the numbers would be the same today as they were in 2006. I would hope not.

Will this constitutional amendment stand in light of the latest SCOTUS rulings?

[Rob H.]

9. I haven't heard anything about any like the "Moral Mondays"

The only time they really talk about religion on the news is when something happens like a proposal before the city council to extend the city's non-discrimination language to include "sexual orientation" to apply to current and future city employees. Then the usual bloviating right-wing gasbag preachers show up to make their opinions known--"Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" "They're asking for special rights, not equal rights!" etc. They don't give nearly as much attention to, say, the progressive minister at the UCC church in the Bohemian part of town who supported the proposal.

The way it was explained to me wrt the DOMA ruling is that someone in the state of TN will have to file a lawsuit here to get the ball rolling to get it overturned, but someone posted an article on DU earlier today that said that the ruling might open the door to getting same-sex marriage recognized nationwide. (And, of course, now that I'm actually looking for it, I can't remember where I saw it!) I guess we won't really know for a while, but I hope it gets overturned. I'm friends with a gay couple who would love to get married here in TN, but can't as things stand now.

[cbayer]

10. I hear you. The press finds the inflammatory remarks of the religious right

really sexy, but actions by the liberal/progressive religious groups get little notice.

But Moral Mondays is getting a fair amount of attention because they have taken a rather radical approach. I would like to see more of that.

It will be very interesting to see what happens in Tennessee and other states. I may be overly optimistic, but I think the recent SCOTUS rulings will result in national change on the issue. Hope someone in TN issues a challenge soon.

[Rob H.]

12. I like to think that maybe some reporters are stealth liberals

They show the progressives (and the numerous gay rights supporters who showed up at the city council meeting to voice their feelings) on the evening news, and then show the right-wingers as some "On the other side of the issue, check out what colossal tools these guys are" examples. (Probably not the case, but hey, try to find a bright side, right?)

[cbayer]

13. They may be liberals, and I hope they are, but they

still have to play to their audience.

Liberals/progressives need to make more noise. Squeaky wheel and all, when it comes to the press.