From what I'm learning, many religious people have no tact, nor boundaries...

[Humanist_Activist]

This is a continuation of the story I posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/121888246

First, some background, my fiancee's mother and stepfather lived in Florida, my fiancee and I live in Missouri, all of my fiancee's family lives around here(as does mine), except her mother and stepfather.

A couple of weeks ago, my fiancee traveled down to Florida to help her Mom with hospice for her stepfather, it was at a small hospice facility. She traveled with her grandparents, her mother's parents, obviously. Note: they are Uber-Catholics.

So, it took them a couple days to get down there, and my fiancee was assisting her mother in around the clock care for her stepfather. Her grandparents thought that would be a good time to ask if their daughter's husband is baptized, a guy writhing in pain, semiconscious on pain medications. Needless to say this pissed both my fiancee and her mother off(her mother is a Wiccan), and they were very close to violence, from what I gathered. I should know, I was heavily involved in distant support through text and phone with both of them.

But frankly, these are the grandparents, they are getting up their in age, and think the world centers around them. To be honest, any strain on familial relationships will be brief and mild.

But hey, this is just the beginning of the drama. My fiancee's stepfather died last Wednesday, and she came home soon afterwards. Her mother has been keeping her up to date on situations arising right now. Namely, a couple of things, he was a member of an AA type group, or AA itself, and some of its members are very religious, and they are going to raise some money in his name, not to pay medical bills, but for themselves. Also, one or more member's may have snuck into the hospice facility during early admission before my fiancee showed up, and while her mom was preparing to camp there, and apparently prayed over him without his or his wife's permission. They bragged about it to her, apparently.

Needless to say, she is extremely hurt, my fiancee is pissed off, I'm rather angry myself, and we are wondering if there is any legal recourse to the fundraising in his name. Perhaps the worst part about this is that the conduct of her grandparents, or practically any religious person, doesn't surprise me, and I don't really expect them to act any better. Isn't that just sad?

ON EDIT: Forgot to mention that his wake was going to be secular, per HIS instructions, until his mother got involved(they were estranged in life, for good reason), causing a fight between my fiancee's mother and his mother.

[Ilsa]

1. Like Mormons' proxy baptisms, they

are arrogant and disrespectful.

[burnsei sensei]

2. They sound bizarre.

Last edited Sat Aug 10, 2013, 03:06 PM - Edit history (1)

But frankly, these are the grandparents, they are getting up their in age, and think the world centers around them.

Generally, it's children who think the world centers around them.
Such behavior is very inappropriate in the old; and I think these people are not to be trusted.
My impression is that these so-called "uber-Catholics," are NOT acting out of the actual content and dictates of their faith, but out of a will to be to toxic to others.
They're just using religion as a cover for their own selfish failings.
Respect for boundaries is essential for relationship.

[rug]

3. Lots of people have no boundaries, regardless of belief or nonbelief.

That's one of the criteria for sociopathy.

[cbayer]

4. Gee, I guess those believers that post here and offered you support and condolences

the last time you wrote about this have no tact or boundaries.

Perhaps your negative assumptions and preconceptions about "any religious person" is part of the problem.

I doubt very much that his AA buddies are pulling a scam to raise money for themselves. Quite frankly, these are probably the people who knew and cared for him most in his life.

Honestly, this sounds like the kind of drama that goes on all the time in families where there is already discord and someone dies. Your mother and fiancee were close to violence because somebody asked if he were baptized? Don't you think that's a little extreme?

It sounds to me like the role of religion is minor and most likely a smokescreen.

Having said that, I am sorry for your fiancee's loss and hope that people in her family see it as an opportunity to mend fences, not build them.

[Humanist_Activist]

5. The "close to violence" thing was more related to exhaustion on her mother's and my fiancee's part..

along with stress that increases emotional sensitivity.

Speaking of sensitivity, I did qualify it with practically, because I recognize there are exceptions to the rule.

[cbayer]

7. I can certainly understand that.

These events can be so very stressful.

It seems that you are going through a lot right now and I hope you are doing OK.

I didn't mean to come down so hard on you and am glad that you felt safe enough to talk about it here.

[sigmasix]

6. sorry about your loved one's experience

There are always going to be people that are threatened by the idea that perfectly normal, happy people don't need, want or beleive in religious dogma or faith. They are not capable of understanding the world without relying on a supernatural explanation for complicated and difficult human conditions. Your relative's final wishes should have been given respect and understanding. The need to force their dogma on others is responsible for many evils in the name of God.
I really can't stand the smug fuckers that show up at my door to tell me that my faith is suspect and wrong if I don't follow their religion club's rules.
7th day adventists and Jehova whitnesses are so not welcome at our house. I make sure they know it when they show-up at the door with their silly pamphlets and holier than thou attitude.
Couldn't his wife sue those involved with sabotaging your family member's funeral? If so I hope she wins and takes every cent from these disgusting people. How much hate does it take to sabotage someone's funeral over their religious beliefs?

[Igel]

8. Mother-in-law to be has issues with her parents.

She's rejected their faith. They think it's important. She reciprocates by thinking her faith is important.

They ask about her husband's state of baptism, for her it's about her and keeping them out of her sphere of control. Can't tell about them--they might be really concerned or they might just be needling her. A religious AA person, probably with good intent, does something that doesn't hurt her husband (but does interfere with her control over him) and it's about her. Otherwise there'd be a lot of "he said" and "he wanted."

Yes, I'm tolerant of different faiths. I have my own and believe others are meaningless. If somebody makes a meaningless gesture or says meaningless words over a sick person, but it makes that somebody happy--wonderful. No problem.

AA's not a bad group. A lot of money goes to NGOs instead of to florists when somebody dies. My SIL wanted a donation to her church instead of flowers. The problem with AA isn't that they're soliciting money; it's that a number of them are very religious.

Rule of thumb: Everything about the dead is actually about the living. Wakes aren't for the dead; they're for the living.

Even asking that the wake/memorial be secular is probably more about the living than the dead, a compromise between Wiccan spouse and "very religious" friends.