Atheists should have good rules for behavior

[rug]

Aug. 30, 2013
by PZ Myers

t has come to my attention that certain people — certain thuggish, stupid people — are objecting to the Code of Conduct for the American Atheists 2014 convention. In addition to complaining that it shouldn’t bother to address the needs of trans people (WTF?), they object to this section:

American Atheists does not tolerate harassment of or by conference participants in any form. Prohibited conduct may include but is not limited to harassment related to gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, age, religion, sexual images in public spaces (not related to convention sessions or materials), deliberate intimidation, stalking, harassing photography or recording, sustained disruption of talks or other events, inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention. Racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic conduct will not be tolerated.

That all sounds good and reasonable to me. But some people are complaining that at an atheist convention, it is far too PC to say you may not harass people for their religion, and then they point to David Silverman, who is known for his confrontational style and his willingness to openly disagree with religious convention.

These objectors are obtuse and wrong. This does not say you may not disagree with someone; it does not say you may not publicly express a different opinion; it does not say you have to be kind and gentle to bad ideas.

It says you may not harass someone.


http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/30/atheists-should-have-good-rules-for-behavior/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+freethoughtblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28FTB%3A+Pharyngula%29

[cbayer]

1. Good for him. I think he says it very well.

It's about harassment. He defines it like this:

Harassment is persistent, aggressive behavior with the purpose of intimidating or silencing someone.

Wish we had this in our code of conduct on DU.

[rug]

2. It also prohibits stalking.

[cbayer]

3. Wouldn't that be nice as well.

[longship]

4. PZ Myers is one of my daily Blog stops.

I read that entry this morning and cheered that American Atheists took the correct position.

And PZ has been right on the target with this issue from the very beginning. Too bad that some free thought organizations still have their fingers in their ears and cannot hear what has been going on at some of these gatherings.

Love PZ!
R&K

[cbayer]

5. I also cheer this. This is exactly the kind of step they need to take

and I give them a lot of credit for doing it. I also give PZ a big toast for supporting it.

I don't always agree with him, but this time I sure do.

[longship]

6. PZ is an interesting person.

He runs a rabble of a Blog, where his Cthulhu-esque alter ego holds court. But everybody -- and I do mean everybody -- who knows him say out loud that he is Minnesota nice, a soft spoken gentle soul. Even Eugenie Scott, director of the NCSE, (herself a soft spoken person) has said that publicly of PZ.

Please don't judge PZ by his alter ego. One wouldn't want to piss off Cthulhu.

I'll raise a glass to Cth... er, PZ with you, my friend.

[cbayer]

7. As I do with others like him, I will support him when he is doing good

and challenge him when he is not.

Interesting about his alter-ego, because that has been my experience of him.

[longship]

8. He relentlessly pokes fun at his alter ego, too.

Lots of cephalopod images on his Blog, always with tentacles presented front and center. (Suggesting Cthulhu.) He jokes about his evil nature all the time. But from all reports, he's really nothing but a Teddy Bear. He even kinda looks like one.

Anybody who has such a self-effacing sense of humor has my respect.

He brings his message across. And even he says that he went overboard on the "cracker incident". He says it was kind of an unnecessary piling on. As I said, Minnesota nice. (Eugenie Scott's words.)

Always like to read your perspectives.

[cbayer]

9. Sounds like someone I would really enjoy.

I like his piece on the Creation Museum and it was one of the reasons I considered going there.

He's a good writer, has a sharp wit and can make his point articulately.

But once in awhile, he writes something I find over the top. That must be his alter ego.

I know Minnesota nice. I have relative there and have spent some time. It's a Garrison Keilor kind of nice.

I hope you know that I always enjoy running into you and talking with you as well, longship.

We are in the dogdays of summer down here and I've been a little grouchy, but all is well.

Hope you are too.

[longship]

10. Trust me; I understand about the dog days.

I live in very rural Michigan, where winters can be very brutal (often not -- thank you Great Lakes). The last two winters have been tolerable. But I am no longer able to shovel my long driveway, so I depend on neighborly kindness. (My closest neighbor is over a half mile away. The guy who plows is over a mile. Beyond that is only national forest.)

As long as I have heating oil, I am okay. I've had to sell my soul to get some in the past. Since I went on social security, I budget for it. But winters are very tough for me. I have been thinking about these things recently.

Having good friends here helps.

As always.

[cbayer]

12. I am done, done, done with the north.

I am so glad you have friends to help you out. Sounds like your area must be idyllic in the better months, though.

I am also done with the desert and am looking forward to relocating to somewhere more tropical. Big plus - rain! Downside - bugs!

[longship]

13. Dark skies! When the clouds go away, the night sky is gorgeous.

That's when I take out my big light bucket, my 10" reflecting telescope. Makes it worth it. Almost.

[cbayer]

14. We are also having some beautiful nights.

The boat is on a single anchor and swings. When sitting in the cockpit, we sometimes see the shores of 'Merica.

But when we turn away, we see the night skies in all their glory.

And it makes me reflect on what is out there and how small we all are.

Don't have a telescope, but I am often overwhelmed with what I can see just with my eyes.

[dimbear]

11. Seems pretty reasonable and moderate. As long as the atheist in chief doesn't veto it, nor some

mysterious contrary message come floating out of the aether, we ought to go along.

Neither of those seem very likely.

Progress. Somehow easier in some environments than others.

[longship]

15. What atheist in chief?

Unless you are being satirical, I don't know what you're about in your response.

No biggie. Getting atheists to agree is like herding cats. Traveling in a herd isn't within their genetic makeup.

Alas, that's where the believers have an advantage... except there's still all those religious wars through history. Nevermind about that advantage.

Maybe people are like cats.

[dimbear]

16. I keep proposing Kathy Griffin but others don't go along.

You guessed right.

Satire.

[LostOne4Ever]

21. Hearding cats is a great analogy!

I keep saying this, but really the only thing that unites us is doubt. You can't find much common ground in that.

I find that my being a liberal and a left wing civil libertarian defines me far more than my non-belief. My non-belief is a very small part of me, and other than posting here does not play much of a part in my day to day life.

[LostOne4Ever]

17. Good article!

Great article and I completely agree.

Being a non-believer has nothing to do one way or another with being politically incorrect or being rude. And no one should be harassed. I support AA in instituting such a policy.

Also, this is completely anecdotal, it seems to me that those who scream the loudest against political correctness are usually the first and loudest ones to cry foul when you are not politically correct to them. They want the right to be as rude and crass as they want to be, but insist upon the utmost respect being paid to them.

But again, I base this on purely anecdotal evidence.

[Laochtine]

18. I'd start with

Not systematically preying on children and be nice of course

[rug]

19. You'd probably end with it as well, with nothing in between.

[Laochtine]

22. No I'd question your

Thinking on the suffering the corporation has brought to humanity. We don't have the lifetimes and I regret that

[cbayer]

20. Do you not think they are pretty much covering that (and more)?

[Laochtine]

23. Are the Germans still Nazi's

Please, this shit has gone on longer and caused most of it.

[okasha]

24. Wasn't aware that atheists were

"systematically preying on children" and needed to be warned not to. Strange.

I'd better add this for the irony-challenged:

Edited further to add: Myers has been on the right side of this issue since Elevatorgate. Good for him!