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Which universe are we in? (Original Post) PADemD Nov 2014 OP
Oh noes shenmue Nov 2014 #1
The Buddhists have a term for it: Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #2
That would be a Republican Universe. PADemD Nov 2014 #6
Or Neoliberal of any stripe. Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #18
A lot of Republicans are in the Hungry Ghost Realm! Odin2005 Nov 2014 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #3
All I can say is that I'm glad I will LuvNewcastle Nov 2014 #4
Um.... This one. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #5
Not the one over there? Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2014 #13
Nope, I'm in this one right here. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #23
Thanks PADded. bvf Nov 2014 #7
The "uni" in "universe" means "one". There can be only one universe, by definition. Silent3 Nov 2014 #8
Well, it could easily mean "the only one we can experience." Warpy Nov 2014 #9
"Bumping" definitely counts as "experiencing"... Silent3 Nov 2014 #14
"Cosmos" versus "Universe" is akin to "Internet" versus "World Wide Web". John1956PA Nov 2014 #27
Diluted definitions are a bi***. pun intended. defacto7 Nov 2014 #10
I agree it's kind of a hoot to see bvf Nov 2014 #11
In theory yes, but this isn't the first time we've been talking about other universes muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #12
I agree. Edim Nov 2014 #15
Ever hear of St. Anselm & his proof of God's existence? Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #19
I'm not making that mistake here. Silent3 Nov 2014 #21
We're in this one. nt Javaman Nov 2014 #16
can I be in the one qazplm Nov 2014 #17
apparently not qazplm Nov 2014 #22
If the multiverse hypothesis (or conjecture) is correct... True Blue Door Nov 2014 #20
Not by any means. bvf Nov 2014 #25
But we're by definition in a universe that allows observation. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #26
I'm curious about the definition of "observation" here bvf Nov 2014 #29
I'm not equipped to understand how they mathematically define observation True Blue Door Nov 2014 #30
Skimmed through it bvf Nov 2014 #31
I don't know. Kalidurga Nov 2014 #28

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
18. Or Neoliberal of any stripe.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:22 PM
Nov 2014

How small does the "lesser" part of the lesser of two evils have to get before we really have to find a different way?

Response to PADemD (Original post)

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
7. Thanks PADded.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:00 AM
Nov 2014

I don't have that channel on cable but I'll definitely try to seek it out on-line.

A book on the multiverse I recommend is "The Fabric of Reality" by David Deutsch (1997). Hope he gets some mention in this.

Thanks again for the heads-up!

Silent3

(15,210 posts)
8. The "uni" in "universe" means "one". There can be only one universe, by definition.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:11 AM
Nov 2014

The word "universe" has, of course, become somewhat diluted in common usage, taken to mean "known universe" or other multiple realms that may be like or unlike the known universe in varying degrees.

By strict usage of the word "universe", however, any individual realm in a plural set of realms can only be a subset of a greater universe, the true universe being the sum of all extant realms.

So which universe are we in? The one and only, by definition singular universe.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
9. Well, it could easily mean "the only one we can experience."
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:42 AM
Nov 2014

However, having a Big Bang bump into other things as it expanded would explain a lot.

Silent3

(15,210 posts)
14. "Bumping" definitely counts as "experiencing"...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:46 AM
Nov 2014

...so long as such "bumping" has observable, measurable consequences.

I still think I know what you mean, that you're talking about the part of the universe that we more directly experience all of the time. It's a shame there isn't a good word for "large subpart of the universe" which would leave "universe" free to always be singular and all-encompassing, getting rid of the need for terms like "multiverse" which implicitly accept the watered-down sense of "universe".

One could, of course, imagine multiple "universes" which have never and can't ever interact in any way -- no "bumping", no connections or mutual detection ever possible at all, but that's an idea that, while you can play with it in your imagination, is actually meaningless. There can be no meaningful sense of the word "exist" when it refers to an "existence" which is, by definition, utterly and completely detached and inconsequential to our own existence.

John1956PA

(2,654 posts)
27. "Cosmos" versus "Universe" is akin to "Internet" versus "World Wide Web".
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:24 AM
Nov 2014

In support of the analogy, I would mention that there is a "Dark Internet" which ordinary World Wide Web surfers (like most of us) can not access.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
10. Diluted definitions are a bi***. pun intended.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:12 AM
Nov 2014

It is unfortunate that language seems undermined by fast and sloppy usage and the Internet is no help in that regard... "meme" for instance or the ellipsis for that matter. In this case we have to our rescue "multiverse" or meta-universe. At least someone is trying to advance language in a functional way.

I'm not trying to sound linguistically adept, I just think language is fun.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
11. I agree it's kind of a hoot to see
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:04 AM
Nov 2014

words evolve, and like you I can appreciate them more if there's a truly functional reason behind those evolutions.

"Universe" is so ingrained in at least English-speaking cultures to mean "everything in existence" that new ways of looking at things (as demanded by, say, quantum computing) demand new vocabulary.

Nice to meet a fellow word nerd.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
12. In theory yes, but this isn't the first time we've been talking about other universes
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:42 AM
Nov 2014

Other galaxies were called, at first, 'island universes'.

When William Herschel constructed his catalog of deep sky objects in 1786, he used the name spiral nebula for certain objects such as M31. These would later be recognized as immense conglomerations of stars, when the true distance to these objects began to be appreciated, and they would be termed island universes. However, the word Universe was understood to mean the entirety of existence, so this expression fell into disuse and the objects instead became known as galaxies.
...
In the 10th century, the Persian astronomer Al-Sufi made the earliest recorded observation of the Andromeda Galaxy, describing it as a "small cloud".[37] Al-Sufi, who published his findings in his Book of Fixed Stars in 964, also identified the Large Magellanic Cloud, which is visible from Yemen, though not from Isfahan; it was not seen by Europeans until Magellan's voyage in the 16th century.[38][39] The Andromeda Galaxy was independently rediscovered by Simon Marius in 1612.[37] These are the only galaxies outside the Milky Way that are easily visible to the unaided eye, so they were the first galaxies to be observed from Earth. In 1750 Thomas Wright, in his An original theory or new hypothesis of the Universe, speculated (correctly) that the Milky Way was a flattened disk of stars, and that some of the nebulae visible in the night sky might be separate Milky Ways.[32][40] In 1755, Immanuel Kant used the term "island Universe" to describe these distant nebulae.
...
In 1917, Heber Curtis had observed a nova S Andromedae within the "Great Andromeda Nebula" (as the Andromeda Galaxy, Messier object M31, was known). Searching the photographic record, he found 11 more novae. Curtis noticed that these novae were, on average, 10 magnitudes fainter than those that occurred within our galaxy. As a result he was able to come up with a distance estimate of 150,000 parsecs. He became a proponent of the so-called "island universes" hypothesis, which holds that spiral nebulae are actually independent galaxies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
19. Ever hear of St. Anselm & his proof of God's existence?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:25 PM
Nov 2014

He made the slight mistake of applying an a priori definition to answer an a posteriori question.

Silent3

(15,210 posts)
21. I'm not making that mistake here.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:00 PM
Nov 2014

I'm just taking the opportunity to remind people to not forget the all-encompassing sense of the word "universe", something I think is often lost when the now more common watered-down sense of the word is used.

My response does not purport to be a direct answer to the intended question.

qazplm

(3,626 posts)
17. can I be in the one
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:11 PM
Nov 2014

where I learn today that I got promoted to lieutenant colonel? I'm like Schrodinger's Major over here!

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
20. If the multiverse hypothesis (or conjecture) is correct...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:52 PM
Nov 2014

We're in the most statistically likely universe where observation is possible.

Of course, since you're dealing with mathematics that transcends time, statements about causal relationships are treacherous.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
25. Not by any means.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 05:01 AM
Nov 2014

At least one theory of the multiverse holds that anything not disallowed by the laws of physics actually happens in some universe(s). Observation doesn't play into it from what I understand, but that's a point worth mulling over.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
26. But we're by definition in a universe that allows observation.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:00 AM
Nov 2014

And what research has found is that the most statistically likely universe where observation is allowed is relatively close to the constants we measure.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
29. I'm curious about the definition of "observation" here
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:48 PM
Nov 2014

and what it means to say that a universe "allows" it.

The multiverse concept intrigues me--I'd be interested in knowing what source(s) support your premise.

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