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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:31 AM Jan 2016

Astronomers say a Neptune-sized planet lurks beyond Pluto

By Eric Hand
Jan. 20, 2016
The solar system appears to have a new ninth planet. Today, two scientists announced evidence that a body nearly the size of Neptune—but as yet unseen—orbits the sun every 15,000 years. During the solar system’s infancy 4.5 billion years ago, they say, the giant planet was knocked out of the planet-forming region near the sun. Slowed down by gas, the planet settled into a distant elliptical orbit, where it still lurks today.

The claim is the strongest yet in the centuries-long search for a “Planet X” beyond Neptune. The quest has been plagued by far-fetched claims and even outright quackery. But the new evidence comes from a pair of respected planetary scientists, Konstantin Batygin and Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena, who prepared for the inevitable skepticism with detailed analyses of the orbits of other distant objects and months of computer simulations. “If you say, ‘We have evidence for Planet X,’ almost any astronomer will say, ‘This again? These guys are clearly crazy.’ I would, too,” Brown says. “Why is this different? This is different because this time we’re right.”

Outside scientists say their calculations stack up and express a mixture of caution and excitement about the result. “I could not imagine a bigger deal if—and of course that’s a boldface ‘if’—if it turns out to be right,” says Gregory Laughlin, a planetary scientist at the University of California (UC), Santa Cruz. “What’s thrilling about it is [the planet] is detectable.”

Batygin and Brown inferred its presence from the peculiar clustering of six previously known objects that orbit beyond Neptune. They say there’s only a 0.007% chance, or about one in 15,000, that the clustering could be a coincidence. Instead, they say, a planet with the mass of 10 Earths has shepherded the six objects into their strange elliptical orbits, tilted out of the plane of the solar system.



more

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/01/feature-astronomers-say-neptune-sized-planet-lurks-unseen-solar-system

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Astronomers say a Neptune-sized planet lurks beyond Pluto (Original Post) n2doc Jan 2016 OP
I've heard rumors about the planet X* being behind Pluto for a while now darkangel218 Jan 2016 #1
It's the death star! Baitball Blogger Jan 2016 #2
what was that admiral? saturnsring Jan 2016 #21
Hide your Alderaans! baldguy Jan 2016 #35
Thanks for Posting! Sherman A1 Jan 2016 #3
I didn't read the whole article as I'm in a meeting ... Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #4
Well, I don't know if one can call that planet a dwarf, the article says it is the size of Neptune, darkangel218 Jan 2016 #5
No, I meant a brown dwarf star ... Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #6
It's not a star, it is a planet which is still within our solar system darkangel218 Jan 2016 #7
Right, but my post is about speculation about a brown dwarf star lurking out there ... Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #8
Ok, I get it. darkangel218 Jan 2016 #9
Yes, I should have clarified myself better. Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #11
It's all good lol. darkangel218 Jan 2016 #12
It would be really cool to confirm both!!! Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #13
Wouldn't that make us a binary star system? darkangel218 Jan 2016 #14
I've heard of binary systems with a brown dwarf. Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #17
A brown dwarf star is mentioned in the article brush Jan 2016 #26
Thank you!! Fantastic Anarchist Jan 2016 #27
A brown dwarf star is about the size of 1 Earth. no text DhhD Jan 2016 #22
No. It is much larger than that. darkangel218 Jan 2016 #24
Brown Dwarf WISE JO85510.38-071442.5 is visible and very cold according to NASA. DhhD Jan 2016 #30
A brown dwarf would be far, far, far more massive than this planet. jeff47 Jan 2016 #10
another article....... Takket Jan 2016 #15
And Another... With Graphic: WillyT Jan 2016 #16
Amazing stuff. darkangel218 Jan 2016 #18
The planet X theory Takket Jan 2016 #19
I agree. darkangel218 Jan 2016 #20
Me too. DhhD Jan 2016 #23
IIRC, several planets were discovered through inference. Beartracks Jan 2016 #25
Only Neptune. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are all naked eye. Technically even MillennialDem Jan 2016 #29
Naked-Eye Planets are Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus Frisco Hillboy Jan 2016 #31
Yeah my bad. Not sure why I typed Neptune. MillennialDem Jan 2016 #33
I did a quick crunch of the numbers. Print that graphic on an 9½"x11" sheet of paper.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #28
I vote to name it Chrischristie Frisco Hillboy Jan 2016 #32
There was a story a few years ago over a theory that a gas giant was expelled cstanleytech Jan 2016 #34
How did it get expelled? Was it passing gas? Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #36
Well, it did pass some gas giants on the way out. nt cstanleytech Jan 2016 #38
Reminds me of chili at a Vegas buffet. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #39
It's Persephone! truebluegreen Jan 2016 #37
 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
1. I've heard rumors about the planet X* being behind Pluto for a while now
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jan 2016

And now there might be scientific evidence of it? Hmm.. Very interesting.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
4. I didn't read the whole article as I'm in a meeting ...
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:55 AM
Jan 2016

... so forgive me if this was already expressed in the article, but I thought there was evidence, or speculation, that there was a brown dwarf star lurking beyond Neptune.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
5. Well, I don't know if one can call that planet a dwarf, the article says it is the size of Neptune,
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:59 AM
Jan 2016

Which is what, 4 times larger than Earth?

So its probably not that.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
6. No, I meant a brown dwarf star ...
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:30 PM
Jan 2016

As in it's a star (well, in astronomy, a brown dwarf is star that hasn't initiated a full nuclear reaction). So, it doesn't shine brightly like other stars.

That was my inquiry.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
8. Right, but my post is about speculation about a brown dwarf star lurking out there ...
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:13 PM
Jan 2016

... in addition to this planet they found, there is speculation that there is a brown dwarf. I only wondered if the article touched on that aspect. I guess I even though I'm in a meeting, I should just read the article, since I spent a lot of time explaining myself.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
9. Ok, I get it.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:14 PM
Jan 2016

I thought you were referring to the new planet they found. A brown dwarf also would be much much larger, 13 size Jupiter's mass.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
11. Yes, I should have clarified myself better.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:31 PM
Jan 2016

I'm trying to pay attention to this meeting and post at the same time.

My apologies.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
13. It would be really cool to confirm both!!!
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:36 PM
Jan 2016

Having another planet and a brown dwarf star would be super cool!!!

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
14. Wouldn't that make us a binary star system?
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:41 PM
Jan 2016

Or the brown dwarf star would have to be a fully functional star in order to make a 2 star system?

brush

(53,960 posts)
26. A brown dwarf star is mentioned in the article
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:40 PM
Jan 2016

It was once thought to be what was influencing the orbits of the small, distant objects that were clustered out on the edge of the solar system but that is no longer believed.

Two pairs of astronomers, the second pair following up and working from the data gathered by the first, have concluded that there is a good chance that it is a large planet, not a dwarf star that is the cause of the odd orbits of the small objects out there on the edge of our solar system.

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
30. Brown Dwarf WISE JO85510.38-071442.5 is visible and very cold according to NASA.
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 05:39 PM
Jan 2016

Just for reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_dwarf
snip
The defining differences between a very low-mass brown dwarf and a gas giant (~13 MJ) are debated.[4] One school of thought is based on formation; the other, on the physics of the interior.[4] Part of the debate concerns whether "brown dwarfs" must, by definition, have experienced fusion at some point in their history.

Stars are categorized by spectral class, with brown dwarfs being designated as types M, L, T, and Y.[4][5] Despite their name, brown dwarfs are of different colors.[4] Many brown dwarfs would likely appear magenta to the human eye,[4][6] or possibly orange/red.[7] Brown dwarfs are not very luminous at visible wavelengths.
more at link


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/25apr_browndwarf/
snip
Brown dwarfs start their lives like stars, as collapsing balls of gas, but they lack the mass to burn nuclear fuel and radiate starlight. The newfound coldest brown dwarf is named WISE J085510.83-071442.5. It has a chilly temperature between minus 54 and 9 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 48 to minus 13 degrees Celsius). Previous record holders for coldest brown dwarfs, also found by WISE and Spitzer, were about room temperature.
more at link


Hopefully Planet X will be visible and found soon.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. A brown dwarf would be far, far, far more massive than this planet.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:20 PM
Jan 2016

A brown dwarf has more mass than Jupiter. This planet is much smaller than Jupiter.

Also, a brown dwarf is not undetectible. The little fusion that does occur means they are hot compared to their surroundings.

Takket

(21,664 posts)
15. another article.......
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:46 PM
Jan 2016

Was going to post this but saw this thread already started. Interesting stuff! We'll see if astronomers can actually find this thing now.

http://time.com/4184942/planet-9-new-pluto-solar-system/

"The discovery of the world that Brown and Batygin refer to in The Astronomical Journal simply as “Planet 9” began in 2003, with the discovery of a far more modest object named Sedna. A dwarf planet even smaller than Pluto, Sedna is a Kuiper Belt object (KBO), like Pluto one of a vast band of icy, rocky objects that surround the solar system beyond the orbit of Neptune. Brown was part of the team that found Sedna too, and if anything made the new world remarkable, it was its extreme distance from the sun—one that has it completing a single orbit in 11,400 years, compared to Pluto’s 248."

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
18. Amazing stuff.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:00 PM
Jan 2016

And look at all who were laughing at the planet X conspiracy theory (me included lol, since I didn't believe in it)

Goes to show you how little we know about what is around us.

Takket

(21,664 posts)
19. The planet X theory
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:21 PM
Jan 2016

I don't think this validates the "planet X" crowd. I read those conspiracies myself years ago and they were mostly quackery about a huge planet slicing through the inner solar system and wreaking havoc, which is nonsense, because our solar system has been stable for many millions upon millions if not billions of years. if those rouge planet came careening through the inner solar system every few thousand years, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

And no one has ever said definitively that the 8 planets + pluto are all that's out there. just that they are all we KNOW about it (has been proven scientifically by observation to exist). I certainly don't think the possibility (which is all it is right now) that this planet exists in any way validates the pseudoscience based doomsday prophecies of the "Planet X" crowd, any more than, for example, finding a shipwreck proves the Noah built an ark.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
20. I agree.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:24 PM
Jan 2016

My point was, we are proven that we really don't know what really exists even in our own solar system.

I think I will keep an open mind about many things in the future when it comes to astronomy and physics.

Beartracks

(12,822 posts)
25. IIRC, several planets were discovered through inference.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:01 AM
Jan 2016

Last edited Fri Jan 22, 2016, 09:41 PM - Edit history (1)

That is, their existence was inferred by using, for example, calculus to determine their mass and orbits, even before we could actually eyeball them directly.

Oh, and a second thought: rouge planets are reddish-colored, right? Not sure about the ROGUE ones, though.

==============

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
29. Only Neptune. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are all naked eye. Technically even
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 09:58 AM
Jan 2016

Uranus is naked eye and it was discovered by Herschel with a telescope.

Neptune was inferred based on orbit disruption.

A few other "planets" were inferred based on orbit disruption but incorrectly - initially they thought there was another gas giant relatively near Neptune and Uranus, but were wrong. That's why there is some confusion about Pluto - it was viewed by luck while looking for a massive planet, but the inference about a 5th gas giant was incorrect.

 

Frisco Hillboy

(16 posts)
31. Naked-Eye Planets are Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 02:45 AM
Jan 2016

Neptune is not visible to the naked eye.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
28. I did a quick crunch of the numbers. Print that graphic on an 9½"x11" sheet of paper....
Fri Jan 22, 2016, 05:12 AM
Jan 2016

The orbit of Neptune should be about a half an inch in diameter.

At that scale the nearest star (Proxima Centauri) would be about 187 feet away. That would be at about the 62 yard line of a football field.

cstanleytech

(26,345 posts)
34. There was a story a few years ago over a theory that a gas giant was expelled
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:02 AM
Jan 2016

from the solar system which makes me wonder if this could be said planet and that it was not expelled but rather its orbit was just greatly altered.

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