Do you have "exaggerated trust" in science??????

[AlbertCat]

This came about in a thread in that other group where I declared the non-word "scientism" a non-word that really doesn't mean anything. Science is not an "ism".

Of course the usual suspect found a definition for it having something or other to do with "exaggerated trust" in science. I certainly trust science (as opposed to believing in it) but is my trust "exaggerated"?

What does that even mean?????

[Vashta Nerada]

1. How can trust be exaggerated in science?

In science, you either have evidence or you don't. Without evidence, there is no science.

This is why I stay out of the other group. They have a tenuous grasp on science, at best.

[frogmarch]

2. I think it means

there are other ways of knowing. *snrk*

[Warpy]

3. Yeah, and those ways don't require math

such a deal, no wonder it's popular.

[Brainstormy]

4. Doesn't even make sense. Like

("religious education" doesn't make sense.) The attempt to put an "ism" on science suggests cultism. Utterly stupid. I'm with you. Scientism doesn't deserve to be a word because there's no meaningful concept or logical definition to attach to it. Utterly stupid.

[skepticscott]

5. For people who try to characterize "scientism" in that way

just ask them to tell you what an appropriate amount of trust in science would be, and to name you some people who have "exaggerated" trust in it. They will go stone cold silent.

[LostOne4Ever]

6. It is not so much that I am convinced that modern science is 100% correct

As I am that everything that contradicts science is completely wrong.

If this means I have excessive trust in science then so be it. Better that than believing in the latest woo.

[smartphone]

7. "Exaggerated trust" in science must be when

actual science begins to leap over those high but fragile walls that religious believers have put up to defend their own concepts of their supernatural gods or when science challenges their faith in what their holy book told them was the truth, (as in rising from the dead, or coming from a virgin birth, or worldwide floods and arks, etc.)

Just my two cents. I'm still learning a lot from reading this forum, and getting a few chuckles from some people's posts with their great sense of humor about the irrationality that is modern day religion in all its forms.

[AlbertCat]

8. Apparently "exaggerated trust" is....

.... when you apply scientific methods to things outside the realm of science

(like religions and woo do all the time)

and think science is the do-all and end-all of everything

(something someone who understood what science is would never claim)

So "scientism" is something not practiced by the scientifically literate. It's a word for people who don't like what science says.

[trotsky]

10. You nailed it.

It's a word for people who don't like what science says.

[defacto7]

9. Maybe I can think up some similar words along their logical theme

Mathism
Factism
Churchism
Godism
Thinkism
Beliefism
Bibleism
Brainism
Lifeism
Faithism
Heartism
Liverism
Stupidism
Shirtism
Understatementism
Exaggerationism
Makingupwordsthatdontexistism

[Act_of_Reparation]

11. This kind of shit is really making me cynical about "the left"...

With one hand, they haughtily deride republicans as "science deniers" because of the conservative positions on global climate change and evolution, while they do precisely the same fucking thing when it is their hokey beliefs on the scientific chopping block.

And it isn't just religion. I can't even bring myself to listen to The Best of the Left when the topic is food, or The David Pakman Show, whenever the hosts start talking about science.

[AlbertCat]

12. Science and reason...

Last edited Wed Apr 23, 2014, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

.... or the lack of it, is of course an educational issue.... which can get political.

But to be fair, I don't know of any healing crystal advocates or universal consciousness advocate insisting these things be taught in science class.

I wonder what the aliens who built the pyramids would think....

[onager]

19. Same here.

I probably spend too much time reading blogs etc. And am just about convinced I'd better give it up before going any more crazy than I already am.

Some of the stuff I see in places proudly announcing themselves as "skeptical," "atheist" or "leftist" is just jaw-dropping.

I see "skeptics" advocating flat-out insane nonsense like Luce Irigaray's theory that E=MC2 is a "sexed equation" because it "privileges the speed of light." WTF is THAT?

Well, better not ask. Because you'll be directed to about 12,000 books you need to read before you can even begin to understand Irigaray's brilliant theories.

As much as I love to read - no thanks. Most of the thinkers I see promoted seem to be just throwing a lot of stuff to see what sticks to the wall. Having grown up on farms, I know exactly what stuck to the wall when thrown. The same stuff these pompous twits are throwing.

Then there are the quantum experts. Not the usual woo-peddlers, but some more unusual peddlers. The ones who try to shoehorn human beings into theories that only apply to sub-atomic particles.

I really wish Heisenberg and Schrodinger were still around to sue everyone who abuses their ideas of uncertainty and undead cats, respectively.

/rant

[nil desperandum]

13. Exaggerated Trust

As the definition of exaggerate includes the concept of magnifying something beyond trust I would say that the term exaggerated trust would more appropriately apply to religious advocates as their beliefs routinely magnify acts beyond trust and beyond evidence.

Science isn't exaggerated, it either proves or disproves a position. It's pretty hard to exaggerate my trust in simple formulas of mathematics or chemical reaction as every day those mathematics and reactions occur exactly the same as they did the day before without ever deviating from the expected outcome.

Religion is exaggeration in that the concept of someone creating a multitude of fish from thin air or turning water into casks of wine relies on a belief in a magical transformation that could never be duplicated under any circumstance at any time in any place...or the religious concept that blowing yourself to bits while killing the children of the non-believing infidels will transform your existence from death into life in an idyllic paradise where 72 women will be make your slaves to do your bidding....

Who can believe this idiotic doctrine, how ignorant and uneducated must you be to accept this at face value?

To paraphrase Mencken, "No one's ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of humans"...

I am often amazed that our species has ever succeeded in getting beyond darting a monkey for supper...

[AlbertCat]

16. I concur

"my trust in simple formulas of mathematics or chemical reaction as every day those mathematics and reactions occur exactly the same as they did the day before without ever deviating from the expected outcome. "

Exactly.

Even if you have zero idea that something called the "laws of inertia" exist, you still put your brakes on BEFORE you get to the STOP sign. Is that exaggerated trust.... assuming something will happen a certain way even tho' you know nothing about the "why" of it? How can knowing gravity will make what goes up, come down "exaggerated"? Like science...it just IS.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. I guess one could 'worship' science in some way.

Sounds odd to me, but whatever floats your goat.

[Beearewhyain]

15. Ah, The Pee Wee Herman Gambit

Goes something like this...

Atheist: It appears that your faith in your religion excludes other, demonstrable expressions of knowledge to understand the universe in which we live. Science provides a framework in which we can understand the universe better than your religious view and your religious views actually hamper a better understanding of the natural world to the detriment of all. I can only conclude that your view is irrational and contrary to the pursuit of progress.

Theist:


Atheist: Wha??

[AlbertCat]

17. "You think you know everything...

....you science types! But I know god is the only truth!"

Wha?????

[roninjedi]

18. These are the folks who say "There's fact and there's truth..."

"...and truth trumps fact!"

Eh-wha?????

[TxDemChem]

20. The first thing that popped in my head was

On a Gaussian curve, I have a six sigma trust in science. The remainder is doubt in those data that have miscalculations or have been misrepresented.

I hate when people try to make up BS definitions just to make themselves feel better.

[stone space]

21. We've managed in a rather short time to bring ourselves to the very brink of extinction.

I would say, no.

I most certainly do not have an exaggerated trust in science.

Not by a long shot.

I wish I could say that I did.