How do you define agnosticism?

[LostOne4Ever]

Not too long ago I did a thread on the definition of atheism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=22814

Well this is the Atheist & Agnostics forum....so its only fair that we have an agnostic's version!

With that, I humbly ask that any gnostics who visit our forum please refrain from replying.

So how do you define agnosticism?

As before no poll options. I would like to hear you put your answer in your own words.

[PeaceNikki]

1. Simply put: I don't know.

I don't know if there's a "Supreme Being" and mostly don't care. I just know that I don't want anybody's crazy theories intruding on my autonomy or daily life. I don't care what others think as long as they keep it over there --->

[arcane1]

2. I define it as "atheism for people who don't like the word 'atheist'"

[JNelson6563]

6. I am going with this too.

[AlbertCat]

7. I define it as "atheism for people who don't like the word 'atheist'"

Or people who can't make up their minds.


I mean....if there were some kind of proof of god, who wouldn't believe?

[Curmudgeoness]

8. That was exactly how I defined it

before I got the nerve to actually admit that I was an atheist. I considered myself agnostic for quite a while, because I didn't know if there was a god and had no reason to think that there was.....but it was a hard leap to say "I am an atheist".

But that was just me. I do think that I did not believe at all in god at that time, but I just didn't want to say it.

[arcane1]

9. My experience was similar, realizing in retrospect that I was an atheist

But at the time the change was happening, I was unconsciously still thinking that nonbelief = somehow bad.

[Curmudgeoness]

10. I think many of us felt that way.

It is society that made us think that way. Now I know that when I consider that this is all there is, I feel somehow free. I also know that I have to make the best of this life, because I don't have anything after it. That was also a scary step.

[F4lconF16]

23. I would amend that to

"atheism for people who don't like the word 'atheist' or people who don't understand the definition of 'athiest'".

I've known a number of agnostics who, as soon as the meaning of athiesm was explained, simply switched and said, "okay, I'm an atheist". I was one of them.

For many people, agnosticism just means atheism that isn't claiming to know. While that isn't correct, it's a reasonably common misconception that is easily fixed.

That said, there are plenty who just don't like being called an atheist and use it as an excuse to half-believe and/or attack atheists

[m-lekktor]

24. for people who don't like the word atheist and side with religionists in an argument

most of the time. they think atheists are arrogant for being certain of our atheism and wish we would shut up and be passive and silent.
i always lump them with religionists to be honest.

[Beearewhyain]

3. As an agnostic atheist

It simply means that even though I don't believe in god or gods, their existence is not capable of being known or understood in the first place. In my mind, it is minimally conceivable that there is some process/mechanism/being that we, with our limited brains and understanding, would interpret as "God" or god-like. But of course, that does not make it so.

[wyldwolf]

4. I really don't give a rat's ass.

Seriously, that's how I describe it.

I really don't give a rat's ass about your god, your church, your dogma.

Or in polite company, I say "I have one toe in the doorframe of believersville, just in case an all powerful being named Jesus returns I can say, 'I was with you all the time!'"

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Uncertainty or lack of knowledge, or unwillingness to profess knowledge for a variety of reasons.

Technically I am an agnostic atheist, because I acknowledge the possibility of a supernatural, supreme being that is omnipotent and DOES NOT wish to be perceived by us. An omnipotent being that doesn't wish to be perceived, cannot be perceived, or it isn't omnipotent.

Therefore, there is a possibility in a range of possibilities that might allow for a supreme being that I don't know about, and cannot prove/disprove.

I don't rate it very fucking lightly, but to profess to know that there is no god is a hill I am not willing to defend. Therefore I default to agnostic, even though I am an atheist, because while I do not profess to know (agnostic) for certain, I am an atheist (without any theistic belief.).

[Promethean]

11. As others have said.

Agnostic just means "I don't know." Which is really the only honest answer to a great many questions.

That said agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive. I am atheist but the question of a god isn't something I can answer with absolute certainty. A theist would point this out and think they have won. They haven't. I will continue to not acknowledge any supernatural beings and will continue to live and view reality as if supernatural beings do not exist until evidence for their existence is presented.

[frogmarch]

12. I’m both an atheist and an agnostic, but

I no longer define myself to religionists as an agnostic, because whenever I have they've said something like, “Oh, so you acknowledge that God might exist!”

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. Knowledge is a subset of belief

There are things I believe, and included among those things I believe are things I know.

I believe there is no god, but I cannot say that I know there is no god. Ergo, I am an agnostic atheist.

Atheism addresses belief. Agnosticism addresses knowledge. The two terms are not mutually exclusive, nor or are they rungs on a hierarchy of disbelief.

However, if you ask somebody from Salon or HuffPo or that other forum, agnostic is a word chickenshit atheists used to describe themselves because they don't want to offend anyone.

[Stryst]

14. Do you by any chance watch "The atheist experience"?

Because that response, beside being perfect, sounds just like how Matt Dillahunty defines them.

[Act_of_Reparation]

15. I try to listen to the podcast every week.

And that is definitely Dillahunty's take on atheism/agnosticism. It is certainly the most logically sound explanation I've heard.

[defacto7]

16. Apatheism is a pretty close second in definition. n/t

[LostOne4Ever]

17. Forgot to reply to my own post

[center] [/center]

As a self identifying agnostic atheist, I define agnosticism, with regards to theology, as the belief that we can never know for sure if god exists or does not exist.

Atheism is about a lack of belief, and agnosticism is about a lack of knowledge. I like to think of it like a car in a garage. There is a difference between thinking/believing that your car is in the garage or not, and KNOWING if your car is in the garage or not.

[Lordquinton]

18. To me it's a trap

It's a one way argument entirely controlled by theists. Hear me out: When these conversations arise it's always the atheist spectrum that admits that maybe there is a god, because it's just silly to rule things out, and that point gets driven home relentlessly. You rarely get the other end of the spectrum where the same theist admits that maybe there is no god. Under their same logic they would have to admit that they could be wrong and wasting their time, but you never hear that, and you might get a grudging "Maybe, but..." and then back to the usual.

It's a club used to silence atheists. On the other hand it is also a step on the path to being an atheist, so someone who self identifies as agnostic is fine, it's when people try to pull the "Well full denial of gods is just stupid" well, full denial of Santa or leprechauns is stupid too, in that case.

[trotsky]

19. Well put.

It's true - the position that "there are no gods" is ALWAYS treated as an extremist, untenable, (insert other negative/insulting adjectives as needed here), while the position that "I KNOW there is a god!" is admired and respected.

It's a bullshit double standard, and as you note, a club to silence atheists.

[Brainstormy]

20. Very good!

This instance may be an exception, but the atheist vs. agnostic question is usually raised by theists. And I agree, too, that identifying as agnostic is usually a transitional step for atheists. Polite. A little timid, imo. But usually only temporary.

[Lordquinton]

21. And nessessary only because of pressure from theists in our culture

In one way it's a stepping stone, in another it's a fence put up to keep people in the flock, so they don't have to face their own doubts.

[TransitJohn]

22. It's the conviction that it's not possible to know for certain if God exists or not

Words have meaning.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. in some cases I define it as "theist".

It depends on the alleged "agnostic".