The Synod on the Family, by the minute

[Act_of_Reparation]

For all the masochists out there, the National Catholic Reporter is keeping close tabs on the echo chamber that is the Vatican's Synod on the Family.

Lulz ensue.

Things are going more or less as I expected they would: so far, Frankie has given a few speeches welcoming everyone and telling them why they are there, and jabbing a pointed finger at the useless layabout bishops among them, while the Archbishop of Esztergom-Budapest affirmed that there's nothing wrong with Catholic doctrine on marriage, divorce, sex and family planning; modern society is the problem.

They have also discussed making annulments easier to get, which is no doubt going to win praise from the Francophiles among us. But, of course, this decision was reached through theological contortion. If one can prove that their partner entered marriage with the "intention" of being unfaithful, eventually getting a divorce, or not having kids, then annulments are A-OK, and the church should remove the red tape to make things easier on devout Catholics.

How are you going to prove your partner planned on eventually getting a divorce, being unfaithful, or not having children? No fucking clue. They didn't discuss it. What of all those people who didn't plan on divorcing, being unfaithful, or not having kids, but by circumstance arrived there anyway? I guess they're up the fucking creek.

[trotsky]

1. "If one can prove that their partner entered marriage with the 'intention' of being unfaithful"

LOL! How the hell would someone prove that? A written, notarized statement from their spouse prior to the wedding indicating their desire to cheat? Well that could have saved you a lot of heartache if you had heeded it in the first place!

[Act_of_Reparation]

2. It goes to show how intractably out-of-touch these clergy are

They actually think people get married with the intention of getting divorced.

I am thinking there is literally no one on this planet less qualified to be discussing the topics of marriage, sex, and family planning than these jokers.

[Gelliebeans]

7. This is so

true
"thinking there is literally no one on this planet less qualified to be discussing the topics of marriage, sex, and family planning than these jokers."

(Sorry having problems with blockquote on my phone)

Biological functions of female body should never be up for debate by any church.

[Gelliebeans]

8. Can you see the lawyer's

face when he/she draws up that pre-nuptual agreement?!?

[deucemagnet]

3. This is Francis' chance to show that he can walk the walk.

I'm not holding my breath, but it would certainly make my sister's life better if they started doling out annulments like Jebus wafers.

[With whom]

13. Isn't he a Jesuit?

The Jesuits consider themselves to be 'the lenient ones', so I'm told.

[onager]

4. This cracked me up...

...while the Archbishop of Esztergom-Budapest affirmed that there's nothing wrong with Catholic doctrine on marriage, divorce, sex and family planning; modern society is the problem.

The Archbishop is probably still pissed about an incident in Hungary a few years ago. After that nation got rid of its other mind-controlling totalitarian overlords, the Communists.

I visited a small town in Hungary with some beautiful old buildings. Our tour guide* (a young woman) told us that after Communism fell, the Catholic Church wanted to take over one of those buildings for a school.

A boy's school only, that is. No stinky gurlz allowed.

Catholicism is Hungary's official state religion, so the Church probably thought this was a slam-dunk.

Nope. The govt. said the school would open for ALL students, or it would not open at all. It finally did open, admitting boys and girls.

"Modern society is the problem," my ass. The problem is the medieval society these clowns want to force on the rest of us.

*Sort of related, at least in my odd-working mind: story from that tour guide - she was in grammar school when Hungary was still Communist. She joined the Young Pioneers and got her nifty red scarf. Her mother refused to let her wear the scarf in their house. Tour guide, being only a little kid, was hurt and confused by that. To her, the YP's were just a neat club all her friends belonged to. She didn't know jackshit about Communism. Anyway, that reminds me of the whole Sunday School/Jesus Loves Me indoctrination that most American kids get. Though at least ours doesn't come from the govt. Yet.

[Warpy]

5. I love how those old boys think that a roomful of celibate old men

know anything at all about family life.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. Annulments---the most perverse idea to come out of the RCC

since the Inquisition. I cannot imagine anything stupider than to have the church say that a marriage that was blessed by the church at the time, and often produced children, all of a sudden didn't exist or was invalid. But they will do anything to keep people from leaving the church because they was a divorce.

[theHandpuppet]

9. So... I'm just not getting this

If, after years of marriage you get an annulment (what an odd concept!) does that make your children the offspring of a relationship that never existed? Can someone explain this convoluted BS to me?

[Act_of_Reparation]

11. It requires a lot of mental gymanistics

But that's basically the gist of it.

Divorce isn't a thing in the Catholic church. They hold that holy sacraments are binding and cannot be dissolved so long as the parties involved are still alive. The only way to break up a marriage while still keeping the concept of the sacrament sacred is to declare that the sacrament never existed in the first place. So, launching into a Triple Lindy, the church believes that if one party enters a marriage without the intention of fulfilling the duties required thereof -- monogamy, producing children -- then the sacrament was never bestowed by God in the first place, and the two parties may proceed as if the marriage had never existed in the first place.

Offspring conceived during this marriage are not considered to have been born in sin and are considered legitimate under Catholic dogma so long as one party entered in the marriage in good faith, believing that their partner would have lived up to his or her end of the deal.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Delicious.

[Act_of_Reparation]

12. Oh, lordy, it gets better...

Speakers tell pope, synod that parishes should welcome same-sex couples

"Marriage is a sexual sacrament with its fullest expression in sexual intercourse. We believe that until married couples come to reverence sexual union as an essential part of their spirituality it is extremely hard to appreciate the beauty of teachings such as those of 'Humanae Vitae,' " they said in reference to the 1968 encyclical by Pope Paul VI that reaffirmed the church's teaching on contraception.

Marriage is a sexual sacrament with its fullest expression in sexual intercourse? What the fuck? REALLY?

Getting married for the sex is like buying an airplane ticket for the fucking peanuts. These guys have NO fucking idea what they're talking about.

[Gelliebeans]

14. Omfg

I was just reading along then you mentioned the airplane ticket and I lost it. Perfect analogy

[AtheistCrusader]

16. And they don't even serve peanuts anymore! Sad little sack of pretzle-things.

[AlbertCat]

15. "Modern society is the problem,"

Said a man still wearing medieval clothes

[theHandpuppet]

17. DUzy!!

[Act_of_Reparation]

18. And a here we go!

After three days of jacking off in front of the cameras, the Synod is officially open. Here's how Frankie got the shindig started:

We are all sinners, eh?, and for us too there can be the temptation of "seizing upon" the vineyard, born of the greed that's never lacking in us humans. The dream of God always clashes with the hypocrisy of some among his servants. We can "frustrate" the dream of God if we don't let ourselves be guided by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the wisdom that is apart from science, to work generously with true freedom and humble creativity.

Brothers of the Synod, to care for and guard well the vineyard, we need for our hearts and minds to be guarded in Christ Jesus, from whom comes "peace from God which is beyond all understanding" (Phil 4 ). So will our thoughts and our projects be conformed to the dream of God: to form a holy people that belongs to him and produces the fruits of the Kingdom of God (cf. Mt 21:43).

No worries, guys and dolls. With the Spirit guiding their decision-making, what could possibly go wrong?

[theHandpuppet]

19. What the hell is he smoking?

It sounds as if he's tripping.

[AlbertCat]

20. Well....

....at least they admitted god was just a dream.

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. Well, this is encouraging.

LOL

"We must develop more robust and creative methods to share the fundamental truth that marriage is a divine gift from God, rather than merely a man-made institution," Alice Heinzen told the synod Tuesday, reading a speech she and her husband, Jeff, wrote.

The Heinzens, from the diocese of La Crosse, were named synod auditors by Pope Francis and were chosen to introduce the work of the synod's afternoon discussion on pastoral programs designed to meet the challenges facing families. Alice is director of the diocesan Office for Marriage and Family Life; Jeff is president of McDonell Catholic Schools in Chippewa Falls.

...

The church is not confused or in a state of crisis about its teaching on marriage and family life, she said. But there is "a crisis of methodology. How do we as a church effectively share what we know to be true in practical, simple and convincing ways, so that all men and women are challenged and supported to live lifelong marriages and build homes that reflect the domestic church?"

I've often felt that first step to solving a problem is denying you have a problem.

Jeebus, I wish they were televising this shit. If only the RCC were licensed through CSPAN or something. I'd never leave the house... except for popcorn and beer.

[trotsky]

25. "first step to solving a problem is denying you have a problem"

Yup, and that is precisely what they're doing. Precisely what us horrible, bigoted, evil atheists knew they'd do.

But remember, we are the enemies. Wonderpope Frank, who hates women and homosexuals, is really the good guy! Despite everything he says, he wants to turn the RCC into a liberal fantasy church! So all you atheists pointing out that he's not actually doing that - STOP SAYING THAT!

[AlbertCat]

41. How do we as a church ...

"... effectively share what we know to be true in practical, simple and convincing ways"


Hmmmmm. let me think


I know!

Empirical proof?

[Lordquinton]

22. waiting for the usual suspects to say a peep

About this thing about family and zero women involved. Like, another thread about how much Dawkins hates women instead of discussing how this is actually a conference on how ro better control women. It would be funny if it weren't physically repulsive.

[onager]

23. I think there's a movie about those suspects...

The Habbit: Celebration of Smug

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. You're absolutely right; and this whole thing is a farce.

There aren't going to be any changes made to church doctrine. They've already made that perfectly clear.

On the floor of the synod, "there was no language whatsoever of a need to change doctrine," reported Basilian Fr. Thomas Rosica who attended the closed sessions. Rather, the desire was "to repurpose what we know in a way that's accessible" to all.

In other words: "We aren't going to change our horrid, bigoted, anachronistic attitudes towards gender, marriage, and sexual orientation; we're just trying to wrap our horrid, bigoted, anachronistic attitudes towards gender, marriage, and sexual orientation in a more pleasant package, so people will listen to us long enough to know we're right."

But I sure as shit didn't expect any better of them; and I can't for the life of me fathom what call the Francophiles in that other forum have to believe otherwise.

[trotsky]

26. And just to reinforce that...

At synod, bishops say doctrine won't change, share 'best practices'

"What we are trying to examine is the pastoral approach that could be done differently," he continued. "The doctrines remain the same. We are not going to invent new doctrines ... or suppress doctrines that the church has practiced for years."

...

Asked if the synod's reflections will result in homosexuals being "fully accepted" in the church, Kaigama said: "We are animated by the spirit in our reflections."

"I'm sure those questions will come just like the question of polygamy has come," he said. "It doesn't mean we will have answers, but definitely there will be inspirations."

"By the grace of God, we're going to deal with them the best way possible for the good of the church and the salvation of souls," he said.

Don't worry folks, they're going to figure out a way to "deal with" homosexuals. Sounds like it will be very welcoming indeed. Especially when a comparison is made to polygamy.

[Lordquinton]

27. At leas the didn't compare it to a bicycle.

I was wondering, I know the gays are damned to hell for existing, but what about lesbians? Do they count it as sex if there is no penis involved? serious question.

[trotsky]

28. According to the OFFICIAL church teaching...

any sex outside of a heterosexual marriage is a sin.

There is a regular on DU who thinks that his church isn't bigoted because it says sex outside marriage is wrong for EVERYONE, not just homosexuals. So seriously guys, stop picking on his church!

[theHandpuppet]

29. Here's how it goes...

It's a catch-22 for gays and the RCC. The DU poster is right that the RCC condemns all sex outside of marriage, but since they also condemn gay marriage it's a no-win scenario for LGBTs. In fact, in many recent cases where LGBTs have been fired from Catholic-affiliated institutions, it's only after the LGBT employee got married that they were forced from their jobs. Supposedly the reasoning behind this is that a person can be gay and not actively having sex, whereas if you marry you're "admitting" you are sexually active.

[trotsky]

30. Precisely.

A: "Oh, my church is perfectly consistent and non-bigoted because it condemns all sex outside marriage."

B: "But your church won't let homosexuals marry, so it actually is bigoted against them. It forces them to deny their sexuality in order to remain a Catholic in good standing."

A: "Look over there! DAWKINS!!"

[theHandpuppet]

31. But you can't include logic or evidence in debates with those who endlessly rationalize

Speaking of evidence, here are but a few examples of what I was referring to, i.e., LGBT employees getting fired only AFTER they married or got engaged:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113740469
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113739803
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113739237
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113738996
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113734298
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113734854
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113733760
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113732620
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113733567

[theHandpuppet]

32. The latest from the USCCB on the issue

They've promised to "double down" on their efforts to persecute LGBTs and it looks as if they weren't kidding.

http://www.usccb.org/news/2014/14-165.cfm
USCCB Chairman Responds to U.S. Court of Appeals Decision
October 8, 2014

WASHINGTON—Archbishop Salvatore J. Cordileone of San Francisco, chairman of the U.S. bishops’ Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage, said that the decision on October 7 by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit striking down marriage laws in Nevada and Idaho was “astonishingly dismissive” of the rights of children and detrimental to the democratic process.

Archbishop Cordileone said, “In the words of Pope Francis – ‘we must reaffirm the right of children to grow up in a family with a father and a mother.’ When striking down the marriage laws of Nevada and Idaho that were approved by the direct vote of large majorities, the Court of Appeals undercut democracy and was astonishingly dismissive of the rights of children as merely being a ‘justification for discrimination.’” The Archbishop continued, “Authentic marriage as the union of one man and one woman is the only institution that unites a man and a woman with each other and with any child who comes from their union. It is rather remarkable that the Court of Appeals was so contemptuous of this fundamental and obvious truth.”

Archbishop Cordileone concluded, “The Church will never cease proclaiming the truth about the human person, created male and female, and the gift of marriage. We will continue to profess these truths with humility but without apology, and we call on the faithful to continue their efforts in this regard.”

[AtheistCrusader]

35. This is encouraging. I love it. Very good stuff.

Because it means we may see the practical end of catholicism in my lifetime.

[AlbertCat]

42. right of children to grow up in a family with a father and a mother.

What????

It a "right"?????

the US version:
right of children to grow up in a family with a father and a mother.....with guns!

[theHandpuppet]

45. Not only is this incredibly insulting to gay parents...

But what about folks who are unable to conceive? Too old to have kids? Single Moms?

[theHandpuppet]

33. Women rise up at the synod!!

Oh wait....

[AtheistCrusader]

34. WOW, I totally fell for that.

I oughta know better.

[theHandpuppet]

36. We should probably try it on a larger audience

Or would that be too mean?

[Lordquinton]

37. Is that an atheist convention?

With all the articles about how there are no women in atheism that's what it looks like.

[trotsky]

39. Atheism has a "shocking" woman problem!

It's actually got some in leadership positions!

[trotsky]

38. Speakers ask pope, synod to clear up 'confusion' on contraception

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/speakers-ask-pope-synod-clear-confusion-contraception

Apparently some Catholics aren't aware that birth control is a SIN!!!!

[Act_of_Reparation]

40. Well, that must be the problem, then

If Catholic women who use birth control knew it was sin, they wouldn't use it. There would be no controversy. Problem fucking solved.

Oh, and there's this nonsense:

The Zamberlines, who are participating in the synod as non-voting auditors, said the "rhythm of life" today makes it difficult to find time to learn natural methods of family planning, which they said have acquired an "unjust reputation of being unreliable," because they are badly explained and thus badly practiced.

Why ask medical professionals what they think of the rhythm method's efficacy when we have the fucking Zamberlines around?

Jesus Christ...

I wonder how that cautious optimism is doing these days. Hard to tell, as I'm not hearing a lot about it.

[mr blur]

43. That's absolutely right! After all, who knows more about "natural methods of family planning"

than hundreds of mainly-elderly men who are forced to be celibate and, supposedly, have never had sex with anyone - not even themselves (yeah, right)?

[Act_of_Reparation]

44. But you are forgetting TEH HOLY SPIRIT, mr blur!

It is just another way of knowing, you know? It gives people insight teh sciences can't.

[Lordquinton]

46. Any one of these comments is enough to be front page worthy

but never a peep, just another thread about Dawkins.

[theHandpuppet]

47. Seismic shift or much ado about nothing?

Thought y'all might be interested in some articles that peek beneath the sheets at the Synod. Despite the usual reaction from the usual quarters to the latest and usual non-news from the PR firm, it didn't take long for the truth about the "seismic shift" to surface.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/conservative-catholic-bishops-push-back-against-openness-to-gays/
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/heres-why-church-teaching-on-gay-marriage-did-not-change-today-73167/
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/10/14/catholic-officials-back-off-synod-church-document-on-divorce-remarriage-and-homosexuality
http://www.newsweek.com/what-did-vatican-really-say-about-gay-marriage-yesterday-catholics-disagree-277360

[theHandpuppet]

48. Wanted to point out some specific passages in the usnews article...

Just what does this tell you? To me the release of the document to the media -- before even the bishops themselves got it -- screams that this was nothing more than a deliberate PR move.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/10/14/catholic-officials-back-off-synod-church-document-on-divorce-remarriage-and-homosexuality

...Representatives of the ongoing Synod of Bishops on the Family, where top Catholic officials are discussing challenges families are facing in modern society, threw cold water on the reaction prompted by the release its midterm report, which suggested a change in church tone on issues like divorce, remarriage and homosexuality. The church leaders, participating in one of the daily press briefings during the two-week conference, stressed that the report made public Monday, called the “Relatio post disceptationem,” was a working document, and insisted that too much should not be read into it.

“Just like you, I was surprised that it was published,” said Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, the archbishop of Durban, South Africa. “You people got the document before we got it, so we couldn’t have possibly agreed on it.”...

...Napier was particularly critical of some interpretations of the document, and even implied frustrations among church leaders that it was released.

"I think that’s one of the reasons why there has been such an upset among the synod fathers, is that we are now working from a position that is virtually … irredeemable,” Napier said, adding his concerns that the media has run away with a story line not representative of the views of the majority of the bishops participating in the synod.

“That would be my worry is that the message that has gone out – and it’s not a true message – that this synod has taken up these positions and whatever we say here after is going to be as if we’re doing some damage control, which is certainly not what is in my mind. We are here to lay the foundations for the next stage of the synod,” he said.