Religion Of Peace again...

[onager]

I was just in Another DU Group reading all the usual weaseling by the apologists for all religions everywhere any time. Because any religion is better than no religion, right? Right! No religion puts you in the Militant Fundie Atheist category.

The article about the "Muslim feminist" was posted there, but if you're using ignore you probably didn't see it. The thread derailed into a lengthy squabble over the use of smilies, which was at least entertaining.

So I was just reading an interesting article, "The Merger of ISIS and al-Qaeda Could Cripple the Civilized World" by Riyadh Mohammed. Linked below.

And how's the Religion Of Peace treating its co-religionists these days?

Shiites are to be killed at once. Christians can live after paying the tax or jizya. Jews are technically like Christians, but because of the Arab – Israeli conflict, they suffer the same fate as Shiites. Yazidis are to be offered Islam first, and if they refused to convert, then they should be killed. The recent decisions to kill Yazidi men and boys, take Yazidi women as slaves, and seize their property were taken by the Governor of Ninevah. “What ISIS wants to prove is that it is completely loyal to its guiding philosophy and it doesn’t want to bargain. They consider themselves the most extreme Jihadi group and the most pure,” said Harith Hassan, a fellow at the Radicliffe institute at Harvard University. -

The Governor of Ninevah gave an ultimatum to Christians residing in Mosul to convert to Islam or pay the tax or leave the city of Mosul, or face death in July. Ninevah Governor, Abu Bakr al-Khatuni, was also behind the confiscation of all Christian belongings and properties and the decision to destroy the shrines of several Jewish prophets in Mosul. However, according to Hashimi, ISIS waited one month and a half to implement the decisions taken over fate of Mosul’s Christians and the Jewish prophets’ shrines. This was to ensure control of the city first, allowing the destruction of Shiite mosques to immediately follow the victory.

The article was written for the Fiscal Times, a tycoon-funded rag in DC that I don't like linking to (partly because of its annoying assholish web format). So I've provided a link to CNBC.

There's some great info in there about the sources of ISIS weapons etc.:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102080170#.

[mr blur]

1. Why do you hate Allah so? You're just an Islamophobic bigot!

Ben Affleck's got your number.

[beam me up scottie]

2. In case you didn't see trotsky's latest thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218157701

I agree with Sam Harris and Bill Maher
By Sameen Qazi Published: October 16, 2014

A few days ago, social media went rife with people praising Ben Affleck. “Batman comes to the rescue” was the general sentiment tweeted by everyone and my friends happily posted the link to the clip from Bill Maher’s show. People were ecstatic that an American, a prominent actor at that, finally stood up for Islam on a highly rated TV show.

The clip did not just cause a sensation in Pakistan; it opened a debate online with prominent analysts like Reza Aslan and Fareed Zakaria taking up sides and expressing their opinions.

As I thought over what Maher and Sam Harris had said, I found myself more and more in agreement with them. Admittedly, the two hosts had used some pretty harsh words, and what they termed as ‘problems in Islam’ are mostly ‘problems with Muslims’, but the core facts they shared were irrefutable. Something even Affleck realised after his passion filled emotional response.

While their views regarding treatment towards women in the Muslim world can be argued against, the hosts were spot on when they talked about issues like apostasy and blasphemy.

Harris is correct when he says that the majority of Muslims are conservatives who might not identify with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) but will agree to death for apostates and blasphemers. These are the same people who support what he terms as “bad apples” by remaining silent and thus agreeing with those extremist acts. Relying upon liberal principles of justice, equality and freedom of speech, Maher said,

“It is the only religion that acts like the mafia, that will %^&$*$@ kill you if you say the wrong thing, draw the wrong picture or write the wrong book.”

We can disagree on the semantics, but how many can deny what he says is not true?

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/24414/i-agree-with-sam-harris-and-bill-maher/

Here is one of the comments on the blog:

Felix Grey

Sameen your argument rests on examples drawn from Pakistan…. You use these examples to make generalized comments about 1.6 billion Muslims which is a grandiose judgement on your part……. Secondly, I’m not sure how much you’ve researched Maher and Harris, but they strongly advocate the use of violent methods to silence (read: kill) Muslims who, in their opinion, disagree with the “liberal” principles of the west…. Please do elaborate on the two points raised and please do not cherry pick examples from Saudi Arabia/Iran or Pakistan…. Some examples from Malaysia, Turkey , even India would help…. You have clearly thought very provincially about it and your argument is solely based on your stereotypes and your viewing of that one show….. There is a problem, yes; but the way to solve problem is not the one envisaged by Maher/Harris

[onager]

3. Just read it, thanks!

Hmm. That commenter's a real pill, isn't he? Basically the same talking points we get whenever anyone criticizes Islam.

He also appears to be trying to pull a fast one we've discussed in here before. He mentions Saudi Arabia/Iran and Pakistan, which are all officially Islamic states. Then mentions Malaysia, Turkey and India. All officially secular states with large Muslim populations.

Malaysia, e.g., has a legal system based on English common law, whereas Saudi Arabia's legal system is based on the batshit-crazy Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam. Iran's legal system is based on the Shi'ite interpretation of Sharia.

Thankfully for the rest of us, I guess, Muslims can fight among themselves just like Xians. The most Muslim country in the world by population is Indonesia. But not many Indonesians speak/write Classical Arabic, which is a requirement to be a True Muslim. I've read that the Indonesians don't much like it when visiting religious authorities condescend to them about their lack of Arabic Privilege.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Dude responds to criticism by claiming Maher and Harris advocate murdering muslims

Hmmm, reminds me of a recent visitor...

*SQUAWK* Dawkins!!1?! defends paedophilia *SQUAWK*

Thanks for your analysis, btw, I always appreciate your insight.

[onager]

6. Likewise!

Always like to hear your view of things.

Yep, that poster claims he "researched" the idea of Maher and Harris wanted to KILL Muslims. I guess we have to follow their orders, like we do !DAWKINS!1!

I better get busy. There's a big Islamic Center in my neighborhood and they're probably plotting something.

That means I often run into Muslim families at the grocery store or just around the community. Sometimes I see them getting the Hate Stare, which bothers me.

I'll usually try to say something friendly, using one of my 10 words of atrocious Arabic. Which at least gets a smile in return. Probably because of my Arabic (non) pronunciation.

Even here in the USA, I try to respect the customs that I know about. If I saw a woman alone wearing the hijab, normally I wouldn't speak to her. Some Muslims consider that disrespectful. So I'm probably being a hypocrite, but I can live with it.

OTOH, recently I saw a woman working in a store wearing hijab. The last name on her nametag looked Egyptian and I asked about it. Turned out she grew up in Alexandria, right next door to the neighborhood where I lived for 4 years. So we had a great yak-fest. It was like old home week. We had even eaten at some of the same restaurants.

[beam me up scottie]

7. Your post makes me miss living in the city.

The fact that you go out of your way to make muslims feel welcome shows how very wrong our detractors are about atheists in this group.

We are far more tolerant than they will ever be.

[AlbertCat]

8. recently I saw a woman working in a store wearing hijab.

Recently I saw a woman wearing a hijab while jogging..... in a tank top and running shorts.



This is true.




Religion is ridiculous!

[beam me up scottie]

9. Is a hijab only worn for modesty?

I've seen girls wearing them with short sleeve blouses and jeans at a local college.

I assumed it was their choice.

[onager]

10. Yes, but it's a complex subject...

...like most of this stuff.

In Egypt I asked my Muslim friends who decided the age at which the girl started wearing the hijab. They all told me it was her decision. I find that hard to believe in all cases.

Young Egyptian women tend to wear bright colored hijab - orange, turquoise, paisley, etc.

But they also tend to wear it with jeans and tight tops. Which drives conservative Egyptian Muslim men bonkers. More than once I heard them say they'd rather not see the woman wearing hijab, if she's not willing to wear completely "modest" clothes along with it.

I lived in a hotel for the first 2 years I was in Egypt. It was an American-owned hotel and all employees had to wear the corporate uniform. Hijab not included.

Often I'd see women come to work wearing the hijab and their "modest" street clothes, then a few minutes later see them working in the hotel in their uniforms. Then after work, they'd change back. Many of those women lived in the neighborhood and walked to work.

That didn't apply to my friend Asha who worked in the hotel. She was 19 years old, a Muslim who never wore the hijab, always wore tight jeans/tops, and didn't take one ounce of crap from the old men who hung out in front of the hotel criticizing women's attire.

More than once I heard them bark at her and heard her bite back. They were speaking Arabic but from the context, I'm pretty sure they weren't exchanging pleasantries. It was pretty funny to see this petite young woman standing up to a gaggle of geezers and holding her own.

[beam me up scottie]

11. It's fascinating.

How about your friends in LA?



a bmus Christmas: One of mr bmus' idiot brothers referred to a muslim girl as a "raghead" last year (I know, I know).

I usually let most of the atheist slams go because it's jnwi but I can't do it with racist comments and shit like that. I made what was referred to as A Scene, and apparently embarrassed everyone. It felt damn good.

Since I am required to attend these lovely gatherings I am planning to contract what I'll think is Ebola this year, the extended version starting Thanksgiving Day.

[onager]

12. Good for you, making a scene!

Sounds like one NEEDED to be made.

I may have misled you - I don't really have any Muslim friends I socialize with right now. Just that we have an Islamic Center in the neighborhood, so I often see Muslims out in the community.

This is Friday so I was out running errands and drove by that Islamic Center just a little while ago. It's always busy on Friday, the holy day. The young women coming out were wearing variously colored hijab, and some were not wearing it at all.

That Islamic Center is right beside a Xian Fundie "storefront" church, and pretty close to an Episcopal church. There's a big Catholic Church/school also nearby and the First Baptist Church. A synagogue and Jewish community center is not too far away.

So around here it's like a God Shopping Mall!

Long as I'm here - in the Egyptian villages, I often saw older women wearing all-black clothes and black hijab. I asked one of my co-workers if that meant she was a widow (like it does in the West). He replied that it could mean she was (a) a widow (b) religiously conservative or (c) both.

In Egypt, the full cover-the-face veil outfit is called niqab. I saw that a lot more in the villages than I did in Alexandria. Just like the USA - rural country folks tend to be more religious and conservative than the godless libertine city dwellers.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Sounds like my old neighborhood in PA

The Vietnamese grocery store on the corner had the freshest produce anywhere, even in the winter. Now I really miss living in the city.

A niqab, I always wondered about that.


Wanna see my Mariah Carey impersonation?:

sigh... those Egyption women are so lucky they don't have to worry about make up...

[beam me up scottie]

5. And another one in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025673988#post9