Charitable giving: what’s an atheist to do?

[theHandpuppet]

As some of you know, I’m the host of Appalachia Group and as such, one of my personal goals is to bring attention to various charities that feed, clothe and house the poor throughout Appalachia. Finding charities not attached to religious groups (especially fundamentalist groups) for people in this region is damned difficult.

Look, I admire the work many of these missions do in Appalachia because so many of the poor there have been consistently denigrated & ignored. Donating your time and energy to people of the hills is not exactly something a person does for publicity.

Given that, I’m truly conflicted because most of the charities doing good works in Appalachia are also using these efforts to minister. I resent being asked to include a Bible or a coloring book of Bible stories with a backpack of needed food for kids. I’m suspicious of groups that travel to Appalachia to rebuild homes and use it as a segue to “witness” for the Lord. Is that small minded of me? Should I care as long as someone is getting a meal, a coat, a roof that doesn’t leak? But I do care and it’s a terrible struggle for me. Is a lesson in anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-science theology (not to mention Republican propaganda) the price tag that should be attached to a peanut butter and jelly sandwich ?

I’ve wrestled with this for so long I feel the need for some others’ opinions/advice. It’s been exactly ten years since I posted this thread to DU -- http://journals.democraticunderground.com/theHandpuppet/23 -- and I’m still no closer to answering my own questions. I don’t want to do a disservice to those in need by not providing information on religious charities but I don’t think it’s fair to the poor, either, to use charities to prosthelytize. Help!

[Promethean]

1. If it is the difference between going with or without necessities I'd still go with it.

I feel comfortable saying most if not all here agree religious preying on those who are suffering is unethical to the extreme. But in the end reducing suffering is important. Even if it means going along with an institution that is completely subverted by religious evils.

However do not be afraid to be a positive influence everywhere you go. Remove the crap where you can like the books in the food packages. When you know there is going to be a preaching bit make jokes about it with the people you are helping before they start up to undermine their authority. You are in a position to minimize the damage, so do it.

[beam me up scottie]

2. I had a discussion about charity with mr bmus today.

One of his brothers, 'N', a devout christian, is one of the most uncharitable people I have ever met. During a recent trip to Colorado, 'N' tried to stop him from giving money to a homeless person.

This same brother advised him not to give donations to Goodwill because they sell the donated items. Instead he should give it to THE SALVATION ARMY.

Anyone not familiar with TSA's hateful homophobic mission statement (before they changed it) and their history of discrimination can read about it here.



The issue in your op is especially conflicting in the south where the vast majority of soup kitchens and shelters are run by evangelical organizations who claim that receiving religious "instruction" is a small price to pay for the help people get in return.



I told mr bmus it would be better to give his clothes to a coworker whose tiny local church distributes items directly to those in need in the community.



Rec

[theHandpuppet]

4. Oh yes, tell me about it

I live four doors down from the local Salvation Army. The captain and his wife came knocking at my door one day to pass out pamphlets and ask for donations. When I told them I didn't feel comfortable donating to SA because of its anti-gay policies, they informed me that my wife and I were going to hell; nothing personal, they said, it's just what god says in the Bible. Prior to that visit we'd been on good terms with all of our neighbors but since that little visit, the ones who attend that SA church not only avoid us but let everyone else know exactly why they shouldn't be friendly with those homosexuals.

[Lordquinton]

26. But... doesn't SA sell the items too?

They have stores and stuff.

[theHandpuppet]

27. Once they can weed through the trash

I have some serious issues with the SA but one thing that really pisses me off is folks who use SA sites as a dumping ground. Slumlords are especially guilty of this, not wanting to pay sanitation fees by taking their crap to the dump. Living just a few doors down from the local SA, I see it all the time. Got news for dumpers -- just because someone is poor doesn't mean they want to sleep on your shredded, pissed-soaked mattress or sit on crappy, broken furniture you salvaged from the dumpster at Tweakers-R-Us. And guess who has to clean up the mess and truck it out for proper disposal? The SA. Despite my personal objections to this organization they do accomplish some charity work and I'd rather money not be spent on garbage disposal.

[Lordquinton]

28. That's a shared trait of both companies though

In Pleasant Hill the SA and the Good Will are right across the street from each other, and their donation areas face each other. There aren't a ton of slum lords around so the garbage problem isn't as apparent, but it's pretty equal.

http://tinyurl.com/m6pr8x2 (google maps showing the rivalry)

[theHandpuppet]

29. That must be quite interesting having them in "competition"

I do know that Goodwill did really help my uncle (my father's only sibling) who was severely disabled from birth. I don't know what their policies are regarding LGBTs, I'll admit.

[beam me up scottie]

31. I tried to explain that to him but the damage was already done.

Unfortunately mr bmus is very easily manipulated by his family.

Since that was his initial complaint about GW I decided to suggest a small local church that I know directly distributes items to people in need.

[bvf]

3. Really, *really* tough question, TH.

This may be a naive question, but have you considered contributing money or, better yet, needed goods directly to local governmental organizations with the stipulation that such donations should go directly to those in need?

I say that might be naive because I'm sure there are lots of factors to consider; e.g., an administration's willingness and/or ability to follow through, compacts between local governments and religious charities, etc.

Your post is some serious food for thought.

[theHandpuppet]

5. I try to thoroughly research the charities I recommend

There are a few government or non-religious charities dedicated to Appalachian relief but they are few and far between. It's a terribly underserved region and because of the classism in this country, doesn't attract the high-profile media attention received by so many other causes. No one wants to see pictures of the unwashed and underfed in ramshackle hovels when you can throw soirees with celebs for a thousand other charities and have the media eat it up.

Sorry if my bitterness is showing.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Your "bitterness" is completely understandable.

You live with these people, how could anyone remain unaffected and hopeful after that many years?

We used to help out an old vet who lived in the "bottoms", his electricity would get cut off in the winter because there was never enough fuel assistance to go around. And the food pantry shelves were always empty by the second week of the month.

You could see the ground through the cracks in his floorboards.

[theHandpuppet]

7. Who cares? He's probably just some toothless, ignorant fuck who votes Republican

How many times have we heard that type of sentiment (and worse)?
There are times on DU when I think I just can't take it anymore. Then I remind myself there are people out there who are in need, in need not only of food and clothes but of voices who will speak for them when no one else will.

[bvf]

8. You have every right to feel that way, IMHO.

I imagine economic pressure on a shrinking middle class doesn't help matters either. I used to give regularly to a couple of charities but it's gotten difficult on an unsteady income these days.

Lately I've been emptying out closets for stuff for vet organizations. I've always assumed these were religiously unaffiliated, but have to admit I haven't done any research. Your post serves as a reminder to me to do that.

WRT your observation on the effects of classism and the media--the situation just stinks. I love dogs (have never had one that wasn't a stray or from a shelter), but the fact that abandoned dogs and cats get TV airtime for solicitation of funds whereas needy human beings do not (short of the celebrity soiree) seems a moral wrong.

Thank you for the OP.

[trotsky]

9. Those are good folks up in the hills.

But so many are at a level of poverty that we can't even imagine. In our minds it's cruel and predatory to link religious proselytization with the assistance they so desperately need, but the religious just don't see that. And worse, they'll be insulted if you even suggest they leave the religion out of it.

There is no easy answer here. But clearly you care about the people more than the predatory religious folks, and that's good. I guess if there are any orgs that go easier on the religion, you could highlight them. Also aren't there secular programs where dentists and doctors go up and provide free clinics? Perhaps those would be good programs to promote.

[theHandpuppet]

12. So far, I've been doing as you suggested

But there are so few services -- and so many of those are underfunded -- I feel as if I'm leaving out a majority of the available resources by avoiding those groups with religious (& political) affiliations.

You asked about secular programs where dentists & doctors provide free clinics and medical services... here's one I've posted about:
http://thehealthwagon.org/hwwp/
and a video of what they do...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/on-the-road-with-the-health-wagon/

There are some more but the fact that we should even need programs like this in this country is shameful. Sometimes I feel as if I'm being pulled apart trying to balance my concerns over social issues with my political self.

I think what I'll have to do is make some compromises, allowing for the posting of all Appalachian charities as long as there's an indication as to which are affiliated with religious or political organizations, not that there are truly any of the latter.

[Gelliebeans]

23. Good idea!

[mr blur]

10. Imagine the screaming from many of these good, charitable Christian people,

if a group of gay and lesbian people provided help for people in need and, in order to get a decent meal, all you had to do was listen to them explaining that being gay was a perfectly natural thing and that people should be free to love and marry those they love whatever sex they happen to be.*

Imagine the condemnation from the RCC and folk like Pat Robertson and Bill O'Reilly if that was going on. No justifications of "We're just trying to help!" and "We're not doing any harm!" and "What does it matter, if people get the help they need?" would shut those bigots up.

(*I'm not suggesting that GLBT people would do this, of course; after all many people just want to make a difference without putting a price on their help).

[theHandpuppet]

13. Yeah, if that shoe was on the other foot people would be outraged

Last edited Wed Oct 22, 2014, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)

There are too many Christians who need to realize they're not the only ones with family values or who care about the less fortunate.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. To be fair, they would also have to provide

information on programs to cure you of your heterosexuality.

[RussBLib]

11. check out the Sunday Assembly

(several links in this post)

You remember those British atheists that started up an "atheist church"? Now they are calling it a The Sunday Assembly, which I like much better than "atheist church." I wonder if there could be an Assembly somewhat near you? Or perhaps one could be formed? They have begun doing charitable work that was primarily done only by religious organizations. The link here shows a map of all of the Sunday Assemblies around the globe, and it does appear that there are some relatively close to Appalachia.

Jerry DeWitt, a pastor-turned-atheist, has formed The Community Mission Chapel in Lake Charles, Louisiana, to do exactly the things you need done in Appalachia. Perhaps you could contact them to see if there is an organization close to you. Also try the Houston Oasis, and the Fellowship of Freethought in Dallas. I wonder how many atheists are in your area that could be banded together to provide charitable services? Probably more than you think. It's not really something that atheists are used to doing, but it could be a good way to supplant those religious orgs which insist on proselytizing in exchange for their charity.

A story is here about Jerry.

[theHandpuppet]

14. Thanks for the many links

I will check them out. I did take a look at the map and didn't spot any assemblies close to Appalachia. Texas is a looooong way from Appalachia. Will have to do some more research.

[theHandpuppet]

15. Forgot to add...

I really like the idea of the assemblies doing charitable work. Of course, the same rules would have to apply -- i.e., no prosthelytizing. If folks really want to change the political landscape in Appalachia it means getting down in the trenches with the people just as the evangelical churches have done. Otherwise there is nothing to counteract the stranglehold they have on the region. Who else shows up when these people are hungry, cold, sick? The churches. So what's the question we have to ask ourselves -- it isn't why these people seem to be voting contrary to their best interests, but why we have abandoned these people with no other options than to turn to their fundamentalist religious leaders.

[theHandpuppet]

16. Found a couple so far

There's an Assembly in Charlotte, NC (and more to come) and one in Columbus, Ohio, which is close enough to Appalachian Ohio to do some charitable work. I'll see if I can compose a more complete list.

[RussBLib]

17. churches have a huge head start

Atheists/Agnostics are going to have to roll up their sleeves and get to work. Considering that quite a large number of present-day atheists were once believers, hopefully it won't be that much of a stretch.

To expect government agencies to do this relief work will be met with claims that "private enterprises" and churches can do the work better (and cheaper) and are already in the communities. That will be hard to overcome, but if atheists can adopt a service-oriented mindset, the battle is half-won.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Also, there are some existing, secular charities that always need volunteers

You're right, we need to roll up our sleeves and pitch in.

[theHandpuppet]

24. I had intended to address one specific portion of your post but got distracted

You wrote, "To expect government agencies to do this relief work will be met with claims that "private enterprises" and churches can do the work better (and cheaper) and are already in the communities."

What you have described is the "faith based initiatives" plan devised and so successfully carried out by conservative Republicans, particularly GW Bush. What a clever plan it was, too. After all, what could be the harm in placing the public welfare in the care of the local religious communities? The federal government is thereby absolved of its responsibility to its neediest citizens and the public conscience is assuaged all at the same time. The Republican Party, especially its most right-wing elements, understood exactly how to sow the political seeds of "faith based initiatives" and we're seeing its political harvest in parts of the country that have taken decided turns to the right. As I posited in a previous post, the question we have to ask ourselves isn't why some people seem to be voting contrary to their best interests, but why we have abandoned these people with no other options than to turn to their fundamentalist religious leaders.

This is one of the better articles (IMHO) on the subject:
https://www.au.org/resources/publications/the-faith-based-initiative

[RussBLib]

35. here Obama disappoints again

so have you tried to contact this "White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships" noted below and found here? It was created in 2009 by Obama and I assume it's still in operation. Lots of lip service about not proselytizing and non-discrimination in hiring, but Obama is deep into the faith-based entanglements by now and I don't think he would dare try and piss off the churches.

story in WaPo 9/15/09

Civil liberties advocates have pressed Obama to keep the promise he made in July 2008 when he told an audience in Zanesville, Ohio: "If you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion."

But in office, Obama has proceeded far more cautiously. He has reinforced the need for the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, and dispatched Joshua DuBois, a young Pentecostal minister and an aide on Obama's Senate staff, to reach out to many of the same religious groups whose receipt of substantial federal grants in the Bush administration raised controversy.

Obama has pushed to the Justice Department the most vexing question: whether religious organizations receiving government contracts can reject job candidates on the basis of their faith.

the rest here

==========

and an official Press Release from 2/5/09

Washington (February 5, 2009) – President Barack Obama today signed an executive order establishing the new White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. The White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships will work on behalf of Americans committed to improving their communities, no matter their religious or political beliefs.

"Over the past few days and weeks, there has been much talk about what our government’s role should be during this period of economic emergency. That is as it should be – because there is much that government can and must do to help people in need," said President Obama. "But no matter how much money we invest or how sensibly we design our policies, the change that Americans are looking for will not come from government alone. There is a force for good greater than government. It is an expression of faith, this yearning to give back, this hungering for a purpose larger than our own, that reveals itself not simply in places of worship, but in senior centers and shelters, schools and hospitals, and any place an American decides."

The White House Office for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships will be a resource for nonprofits and community organizations, both secular and faith based, looking for ways to make a bigger impact in their communities, learn their obligations under the law, cut through red tape, and make the most of what the federal government has to offer.

the rest here

[theHandpuppet]

36. Thanks for posting this

Wish I had a complete list of all who are part on this initiative so I could visit each website and see just how much "witnessing" they're actually doing. Some charitable organizations are really blatant about it and I think it's time to do some digging.

[theHandpuppet]

37. You might be interested in this report

This is an older report concerning Bush's faith based initiatives in Texas and some devastating results.
http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/TFN_CC_REPORT-FINAL.pdf?docID=201

This was a link from the website of the Texas Freedom Network. To be honest, I perused the site and didn't quite know what to make of it. Is anyone familiar with this organization? http://www.tfn.org

[Curmudgeoness]

18. I have struggled with this same issue for years.

What I have used as a guide is not whether the organization is religious, but how much help they give to the needy. The next guide is whether they are outright preaching to people in need, or whether they are just religious-affiliated. Until the secular community steps up and offers enough services, we are stuck, for the most part, with the religious organizations.

So bottom line for me is to get the help to the people who need it with the least amount of intrusion on their lives, but if a religious organization does it best, I cannot, in good conscience, ignore what they are doing or steer people who will be helped away from them. If I thought that I had any ability to put an organization together, I would do it to give people the chance to get help without strings attached.

Any port in a storm.

[theHandpuppet]

20. Yes, I think we've both come to the same conclusion

Some of the religious charities are pretty up front about prosthelytizing, some aren't and some seem to do minimal witnessing. I think the best solution is to post info on the charities, indicate which ones are church-affiliated and let donors make up their own minds.

You are so right that the secular community has failed in this regard and until we step up to the plate we cannot expect a positive return on zero investment.

[onager]

19. Late but thanks for doing this...

I'll wrack my alleged brain for any way to help.

If anything, the situation is getting worse. My family is in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains, so not nearly as isolated as the "hollers" in West Virginia or Kentucky.

But still...lots of the hill people would come down to the small towns in the area, where they could usually find jobs in the cotton mills or other plants. Most of those plants being based in the North and taking advantage of the cheap non-union labor.

That's ALL gone now. The carpetbagger companies found even cheaper labor. Those small towns are hollowed out shells. When visiting back there, I drive thru them and they look like sets for a Stephen King movie.

The only growth industries seem to be Jesus and meth. Neither of which are helping very much.

[theHandpuppet]

21. We need that money for war!

Get your priorities straight! <sarcasm>

Truly, many people have no idea just how dire the situation has become... and too many just don't want to know.

[theHandpuppet]

25. I've now started the thread at Appalachia Group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1272758

Simple and straightforward. I think this was a reasonable compromise but if anyone has suggestions or criticisms, feel free.

[Lars39]

30. Just clicking around a bit and came across this:

http://unitedcor.org/national/news/september-13-godless-west-virginia-congregate-morgantown-ash-bash-two

Might be able to expand your appeals for aid from this contact? I think there also might a Sunday Assembly in WV, too.

[theHandpuppet]

34. At this time there aren't really any Assemblies in Appalachia

Hopefully there will be some in the near future, in which case I can contact them and see if they're interested in community outreach programs.

[LostOne4Ever]

32. It is sad that there is not more

Unfortunately, I don't know of any Appalachian specifically and from the thread I am sure that you probably have researched and know all about any secular charities I could mention like Oxfam, Foundation beyond belief, and the AHA.

The only idea I could suggest is that maybe you check with the local Unitarian Universalitists as well as the Sunday Assemblies. They are accepting of just about everyone of any belief (or nonbelief) so it would not be as bad.

Sorry, I wish I could think of something more.

[theHandpuppet]

38. Sigh. Here's just one example of what I've been talking about

Until we in the secular community can respond to this need in kind, what can I say? We as a nation have relinquished any responsibility for the poor to churches and "faith based initiatives".

Georgia Baptist gives thousands of backpacks to children
Nov 10, 2014

MACON, Georgia (41NBC/WMGT)- Georgia Baptist is giving thousands of backpacks to children in Appalachia.

The organization is collecting backpacks through Tuesday at Ingleside Baptist Church.

This is the third year of collection, and last year 21,808 backpacks were donated.

"Inside the backpacks you'll find caned food, toys, clothes, a bible and things that relates to children's needs," Backpack drive director Frank Nuckolls. "We are doing this for impoverished children, so they will have a nice Christmas."

Appalachian Regional Ministries missionary Bill Barker says poverty is very high in the region and that he had requests of 27,000 backpacks this year.... http://www.41nbc.com/story/d/story/georgia-baptist-gives-thousands-of-backpacks-to-ch/63791/KY0mWyMHK0aYX3qrFozGPg

[Curmudgeoness]

39. The problem with stories like this

is that no headline will be written to say something like "Secular organization gives......" or "Atheists give......."

But it happens all the time that secular groups do things to help all the time. It just doesn't get the brand name headline.