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beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:14 PM May 2015

7 Weird Realities Of Growing Up Without A Religion

muriel_volestrangler posted this gem in the other room, so I thought I'd share it with the smart people who trashed that group:

7 Weird Realities Of Growing Up Without A Religion
Mathias Östlund


Growing up in Sweden is awesome in a lot of ways, but something we don’t have much of is religion. Most of us grow up surrounded by atheism, and a lot of the times we’re not even introduced to the concept of God until we learn about it in school.

Honestly, I wasn’t even entirely sure what a “God” was until I was about 8 years old. And as it turns out, not being indoctrinated into a religion until you’re somewhat capable of critical thinking can have some pretty weird side-effects.

...

3. You start questioning people’s sanity

At first, I kind of just shrugged religion off as some sort of ridiculous stories, meant to entertain the generations that didn’t have video games or the internet. So imagine my surprise when this kid in school told me he actually believed in God, and prayed to him every day. At first, I thought he was joking, and when I realized that he wasn’t, I reacted in about the same way as I would if someone told me he actually believed in Super man.

Needless to say, I got sent to the principal’s office.

4. You can’t tell if religion is real or not

After getting in trouble for making fun of that kid’s religion, I was more confused than ever – if religion wasn’t real, then why was it such a big deal to make fun of it? So I asked my teacher about it, and she gave some halfhearted explanation about how it was sort of real, but still wasn’t.

So on one hand, religion was a real thing, and on the other hand it was just make-believe. For a kid who was still struggling with basic math, this wasn’t exactly the easiest concept to grasp.


More: http://thoughtcatalog.com/mathias-ostlund/2015/05/7-weird-realities-of-growing-up-without-a-religion/


26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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7 Weird Realities Of Growing Up Without A Religion (Original Post) beam me up scottie May 2015 OP
Thanks for bringing the more interesting articles here. Curmudgeoness May 2015 #1
You're very welcome! beam me up scottie May 2015 #3
This describes it just about right. F4lconF16 May 2015 #2
Me either. beam me up scottie May 2015 #4
Ah, that's unfortunate... F4lconF16 May 2015 #5
We weren't raised as atheists, just without religion. beam me up scottie May 2015 #6
Odd how that happens. F4lconF16 May 2015 #7
My s/o's mother is afraid of dying. beam me up scottie May 2015 #8
Do you think that's the primary reason? F4lconF16 May 2015 #9
No. beam me up scottie May 2015 #10
I meant more in general than in her case specifically. F4lconF16 May 2015 #11
I don't know. beam me up scottie May 2015 #13
Maybe it depends on the type of church, too. F4lconF16 May 2015 #15
Interesting. SusanCalvin May 2015 #12
You must have been a cute kid. beam me up scottie May 2015 #14
It's the main reason people are so hostile to atheists, I think. F4lconF16 May 2015 #17
Yes. ^this ^ beam me up scottie May 2015 #21
...damn. F4lconF16 May 2015 #24
Interesting controversy. beam me up scottie May 2015 #26
If you define "cute" SusanCalvin May 2015 #19
Man, smart annoying kids are the best kind. beam me up scottie May 2015 #22
Education does incredible things. F4lconF16 May 2015 #16
Absolutely agree about the indoctrination. SusanCalvin May 2015 #18
I'll see if I can find it. F4lconF16 May 2015 #20
7. Eventually, you just say “screw it” and walk away progressoid May 2015 #23
You make it sound so easy... beam me up scottie May 2015 #25

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
1. Thanks for bringing the more interesting articles here.
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:27 PM
May 2015

This is a much more comfortable place to hang out for me, since I don't really want to have confrontations unless I am in the right mood.

I cannot imagine how confused the writer was as a kid learning about religious privilege....it isn't real, but you cannot say that. WTF.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
3. You're very welcome!
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:29 PM
May 2015

Not being brought up religious I spent most of my childhood going

And it's only gotten worse.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
5. Ah, that's unfortunate...
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:42 PM
May 2015

My family was just...not religious. It was just how it was. We did Easter and went through the motions of prayer during Christmas, but I never believed in it, and that was fine. I know my dad and brother don't either. My mom...I think she believes in god, but maybe not. None of us really gave enough of a crap to discuss it in depth haha.

I didn't really give it much thought until middle or high school, honestly. And then I realized just how much crazy shit people actually believe, and thought, thank goddess I'm not part of that.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
6. We weren't raised as atheists, just without religion.
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:46 PM
May 2015

I really didn't understand what the a-word meant until much later.

I think your family was more the norm, I really doubt if many of my catholic friends bought everything the church was selling.

Maybe some of them will get more religious as they get older.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
7. Odd how that happens.
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:49 PM
May 2015

You would think as people see more and more of it, they would question it more.

People confuse me.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
8. My s/o's mother is afraid of dying.
Mon May 11, 2015, 08:56 PM
May 2015

Her mother had Alzheimer's and suffered for years.

The more she worries about it the more religious she gets.



F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
9. Do you think that's the primary reason?
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:01 PM
May 2015

Or are there other forces that drive that as well?

It's really quite sad how terrified of death (and by extension, life) we are because of religion.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
10. No.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:08 PM
May 2015

She's very obsessive compulsive and can't stray from the rules or vary her routine at all. And I mean at all. She's a workaholic with no hobbies other than reading the bible. When she retires in August I fear for her peace of mind.

I think if she lost her faith she'd go off the deep end.

She's a nice woman and a Democrat but I've never met anyone quite like her. 70+ yrs old and still getting face lifts, tummy tucks and other procedures. Spends 2 hrs a day doing her make up.

I want to age gracefully, trying to fight a losing battle is no way to spend middle/old age.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
11. I meant more in general than in her case specifically.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:17 PM
May 2015

Why do people tend to become more religious as they get older? And I don't mean demographically, but change within a particular demographic as they age.

I've known people like that. They are almost always terrified of the world, and have very low self-confidence. I always feel kinda bad for them. I wouldn't want to live in their world...

I think self-confidence is a particularly large factor in how likely you are to be religious, by the way, and also why so many atheists are considered arrogant.

As for me, no way in heck am I aging gracefully. I'll betcha anything I'll hit a certain point, and then become a fat, wrinkled old man almost overnight. Looking forward to it

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
13. I don't know.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:31 PM
May 2015

My friends tell me the only people who go to mass anymore are little old ladies. They don't force their kids to go to church or catechism like their parents did.

I think you're right about the self-confidence thing, the churches really have the guilt/fear of dying thing down to a science - they pray on the weak.


People who've stopped obsessing over wrinkles and expanding waist lines do seem to be happier. It must be like letting go of religion.

You're free!!! Now go play!





F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
15. Maybe it depends on the type of church, too.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:38 PM
May 2015

My SO is quite religious, and there are many youth at her church. Than again, it's near a university, so I guess that would make sense. My main other experience with religion is with mormonism, and that's definitely an all ages thing.

I think you're right about the self-confidence thing, the churches really have the guilt/fear of dying thing down to a science - they pray on the weak.

I don't know if it was intended, but I'm laughing

Ha--SO just texted me encouraging me to eat "all the food". I think I may take her up on the suggestion

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
12. Interesting.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:30 PM
May 2015

I recognize some but not all of it.

I skipped the terrified stage, except when I was frightened by a glow-in-the-dark Jesus on the cross. Well, and Revelations freaked me out a little, like a ghost story.

It never occurred to me to pick a religion, although I was jealous of a Catholic friend because she got to go to catechism school, and I liked school.

Never had the slightest thought any deity might be real.

This puzzled my parents, especially my dad, but if you give a kid whatever she wants to read, especially mythology and Highlights (which had stories about all different religions), and she's reading practically upon exiting the womb, I don't know what else you'd expect.

Every once in a while Dad would have "the talk" - I would become religious when I was dying, he'd tell me. In retrospect, I think his issue was that I was, in essense, telling him I believed that *he* would not have life after death by my not being religious.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
14. You must have been a cute kid.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:36 PM
May 2015

"I was frightened by a glow-in-the-dark Jesus on the cross"



I get that. Seeing a dying guy on a cross over my friend's bed was bad enough, having it glow in the dark would have been doubly awful.


Interesting observation about your dad, you're probably right.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
17. It's the main reason people are so hostile to atheists, I think.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:47 PM
May 2015

It's not that they have a problem with our beliefs so much as our beliefs challenge theirs. This is why most don't have a problem with other religions, but are so hostile to atheism.

And yeah, what is up with the whole torture thing? Why is it not gone yet? It's 2015.

I had a friend who had a small statue of Jesus on the cross by his bed, and it had the thorns, the nails in his arms, the guy was screaming, blood was dripping down his body...fucking creepy. Gives me the shivers when I realize that people pray to this.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
21. Yes. ^this ^
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:07 PM
May 2015

They start to doubt what they've believed all their lives.

And I always wondered why none of the kids dressed up like crucifix Christ for Halloween.

Still do. I mean zombies are really in right now.



F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
24. ...damn.
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:23 PM
May 2015

I so wish I could do that for Halloween. Get a bunch of friends together and go as a group of zombie gods

The children probably wouldn't care, but we could scare the crap out of the adults

Also, let's be clear on this: Jesus was never a zombie!

He was a lich:



Except!!! He might not actually be, according to recent scholarly analysis rooted in D&D manuals (which I think are just as valid as the original source for Jesus).

https://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/2014/04/21/hes-not-a-zombie-or-a-lich/

The Facebook meme posits that he’s really a lich, which is a very powerful undead cleric or wizard who’s used ancient, evil magicks to keep his body alive. Unfortunately, a lich doesn’t quite fit the bill either:

Their touch is so cold as to cause 1-10 points of damage and paralyze opponents who fail to make their saving throw. The mere sight of a lich will cause any creature below 5th level (or 5 hit dice) to flee in panic from fear. . . A lich appears very much as does a wight or mummy, being of skeletal form, eyesockets mere black holes with glowing points of light, and garments most often rotting (but most rich).

Next I considered some of the other usual suspects, but the story of Jesus just didn’t fit any of those either. He can’t be an illithid (mind flayer) because illithids are allergic to sunlight (along with a number of other potential candidates, like vampires), and the Gospels often mention Jesus being out in the sunlight and not at all scary-looking. It’s doubtful he’s a shapechanged dragon because he just doesn’t seem smart enough or wise enough for that, though admittedly this Monster Manual is AD&D so the newer versions may have allowed for some different kinds of shape-changing dragons (sorry, Christians; looked at from the outside, nothing he said or did really seems very original and he didn’t do a single thing to definitively amend or fix the atrocious Old Testament’s slavery-advocating, rape-apologizing, woman-marginalizing, tribalism-enforcing, ignorance-celebrating stances, like tell people “don’t keep slaves” or “stop worrying about what other people do in private” or even tell humans about Germ Theory or anything really useful).

I pored over the manual but found only one entry that really fit the bill.

Folks, we are going to have to entertain the serious idea that Jesus is actually a D&D-style Rakshasa (which, I’m sure I don’t need to mention, bears little relation to the “real” East Indian concept of them). The D&D-style Rakshasa fits him a lot better. Check this description out:

Known first in India, these evil spirits encased in flesh are spreading. They are fond of a diet of human meat, and as masters of illusion they can easily gain this end. Rakshasas are able to employ ESP and then create the illusion of what those who have encountered them deem friendly. They can then withhold attack until their prey can be taken off-guard. Although capable of using both magic users’ spells (up to 3rd level) and cleric’s spells (1st level), they are not affected by spells under the 8th level. Rakshasas cannot be harmed by non-magical weapons. . .

I just want to say: WOW. That seems to work better. A Rakshasa may have either been acting like Jesus the whole time, pretending to “die” during the Crucifixion and then “resurrecting” to get closer to his prey, or else took the place of him afterward and ate the body–which would make his followers even more convinced that he’d resurrected!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
26. Interesting controversy.
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:35 PM
May 2015

How do we know that he wasn't mindless and didn't eat brains when he came back?

They glossed over a lot of stuff you know.

Plus people didn't bathe regularly back then, it's entirely possible no one would have noticed the rotten odour coming from Jesus.

He could very well be a zombie or a Rakshasa.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
22. Man, smart annoying kids are the best kind.
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:09 PM
May 2015

Not goody two shoes like my older brother.

My younger brother had it easy, I broke my parents in, took me years.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
16. Education does incredible things.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:43 PM
May 2015
This puzzled my parents, especially my dad, but if you give a kid whatever she wants to read, especially mythology and Highlights (which had stories about all different religions), and she's reading practically upon exiting the womb, I don't know what else you'd expect.

It's just wrong to expose kids to religion at a young age, if you ask me. It's straight-up brainwashing. The church has understood the value of propaganda from it's inceptions. There's a reason that they have religious schools, sunday school, etc., etc. They are better propagandists than almost anyone in history, and immensely successful. I once read a fantastic analysis on all of the different tactics they use to either persuade, indoctrinate, bribe, force, or scare people into becoming part of the church. I wish I knew what it was, I'd love to post the link here.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
18. Absolutely agree about the indoctrination.
Mon May 11, 2015, 09:51 PM
May 2015

I observed a lot of it via vacation Bible school (every summer through high school). I still remember asking one of the teachers why she thought Christianity was better than, say, Buddhism. It's a wonder I wasn't run out of east Texas on a rail.

I'd love to see the article you mention.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
20. I'll see if I can find it.
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:06 PM
May 2015

A cursory search isn't turning anything up. I read it at least 4 or 5 years ago, though... But I'll keep looking.

Ha! You asked that question in a Bible school in east Texas? I'm shocked you're still around

progressoid

(49,988 posts)
23. 7. Eventually, you just say “screw it” and walk away
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:16 PM
May 2015

That happens to of people who grew up with religion too.

Now, that I think about it, all of those can apply to former believers too.

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