Luv me some Greta: "Why Atheists Have Become a Kick-Ass Movement You Want on Your Side"

[daaron]

http://www.alternet.org/belief/155370/why_atheists_have_become_a_kick-ass_movement_you_want_on_your_side/

The so-called "new atheist" movement is definitely not so new. Atheists have been around for decades, and they've been organizing for decades. But something new, something big, has been happening in atheism in the last few years -- atheism has become much more visible, more vocal, more activist, better organized, and more readily mobilized -- especially online, but increasingly in the flesh as well. [....]

Atheists are becoming a force to be reckoned with. Atheists are gaining clout. Atheists are becoming a powerful ally when we're inspired to take action -- and a powerful opponent when we get treated like dirt.

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My emphasis.

[dmallind]

1. Wish I could be that optimistic

It's an article that may, if the current arc maintains momentum, be true in 25 years or so, but not today alas.

[daaron]

2. Maybe you're right.

Though it does seems as if there has been a pretty dramatic visibility bump in recent years. Who knows what that might translate into, in the current chaos?

[dmallind]

3. Oh sure - visibility is better, but acceptance isn't. We're probably where gays were in about 1975.

People know we exist in sizeable numbers, but still hate us and will resist any influence or activity by us. Still, as long as we stay on that path (we're already getting some acceptance among the artsy and intellectual, just like gays did at first) we'll get the same mainstream acceptance, and the same attention paid to discrimination and bias, in the next couple of decades.

[daaron]

4. Hm. I admit that makes sense.

Atheism seems to be in the angry pot-stirring, rabble-rousing phase of early movement building. I'm more agnostic than atheistic, I guess, but it seems practical to embrace a 'diversity of tactics' up to a point.

[OriginalGeek]

5. Welcome to DU, daaron

This is the second of your posts I've replied to but that's not because I am singling you out for any reason other than your posts prompted a response within me. The other one was because I thought it was funny and I projected an expected reaction by some of the less atheistic readers of this group. I may be totally wrong (I often am!) but I still couldn't resist and I rarely let my wrongness potential stop me from opening my yap. My wife will happily confirm.

So, I didn't want to keep responding with and to your posts without saying Howdy and welcome.

Now the reason for this post is because I also often point this out when I see it and since you're new here I am pretty sure I haven't previously pointed it out to you: In my way of thinking, EVERYone is agnostic. Agnostic speaks about things you know. I don't think anyone can 100% positively know there is (or isn't) a god or gods.

I sure don't know if there is a god. But I have no reason to believe there is so I am an atheist. I don't believe there are any gods and live my life according that belief. Maybe someday some evidence will be presented that changes my belief but, until then, I am an agnostic atheist.

I'd wager most people are agnostic atheist or agnostic theist. Only the fringes claim to know for sure about a seemingly unknowable thing.

By the way, the theists in my life are pretty perturbed when I point out they are also agnostic. But if I go through a day without at least having tried to make a believer think on some level, then I've wasted the day.

The reason I think that way is because that's how I came to be an atheist. Someone once made me think. It would be incredibly arrogant of me to go around thinking I could come to this belief but nobody else could. I'm sure not smarter than everyone else. Hell, not even smarter than a lot. My current project is 2 of my 3 younger brothers. They are still clinging to the rabid conservative religion of our youth. I'm tryna fix it. It's a thankless task unless and until I succeed.


So welcome to DU and don't let me dissuade you from thinking or believing however you want to.

[daaron]

7. Mighty kind of ya. :)

I posted for a while on Randi.org, but events of late have made me a bit peevish about public displays of religious affection - I do have some experience with these sorts of forums and am probably more at home someplace like Atheists/Agnostics or Science than Religion or General Discussion, from what I've seen thus far. I've used this site as a news resource for a while, along with ThinkProgress, TPM, and some others.

I pretty much agree with your definition of agnosticism. I have thought of myself as an agnostic Christian for a the last few years as I sorted out what I read once I went beyond the canonical and started reading some of the extant contemporaneous texts of Judaic and Christian apocrypha (from the DSS to the mountains of Kabbalistic commentary out there). What do I even mean by that? I suppose that I don't know if I think Jesus was divine, anymore. I kind of think maybe the Council of Nice went the wrong way.

Sometimes I'm not even sure, on reading some of the more sensationalistic, but very early, pseudo-Christian texts, if it's right be so certain that Jesus was even human. Then I read Newton's extracurricular writings and he doubted that Jesus was either divine OR human.

So I'm in a state of suspended animation on the subject, until I learn more. I suppose I was never antagonistic to atheism (my mom is agnostic, my dad an atheist) so it's just a journey I'm on at the moment, to see for myself if there's cause to believe, and if so, what that belief would look like. I suppose I'm more comfortable with atheists than true-believers, however, just because of upbringing.

So thanks for the Welcome to A&A, and there's my "Hi my name is Aaron Dahl and I have no clue!"

[Warren Stupidity]

6. "Atheists have been around for decades"

is true, although the number of decades is at least on the order of 250. Even if one only counts modern western european civilization, the term itself dates to at least the 1600's, and open positive avowed atheism to the 18th century enlightenment.

[onager]

8. Atheists have apparently been around since the Bronze Age

We were pissing off the believers even way back when they were cobbling together the Old Testament:

The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God..." - Psalm 14:1

Note the eerie resemblance to modern Xians. They loudly bray that we're wrong, i.e. "fools." But never stick around to explain WHY we're wrong. Especially when we start asking about proof of their God.

"God exists. You're a fool. End of conversation. Bye."

[dimbear]

9. If you are low information you have only yourself to blame: information? You're looking at it.

That eye in the sky watching over you? That's Google, my friends.

[daaron]

10. Relevance? Point, please? nt

[dimbear]

11. A large portion of religion depends on specifically deciding to remain/keep others ignorant.

Orthodox Jews refusing higher education. Theodosius burning scientific texts. Theologians declaring that the Bible contains all useful knowledge and all other books being irrelevant. The hymn "Tis a gift to be Simple."

Then, some clown invents the internet and suddenly it's like everybody with a connection is wandering in an infinite library. Unless you're North Korea or something like that, you just can't keep them dumb.

For centuries, many English households had just two books. A Bible and Pilgrim's Progress. Things are different.

That about Google is a joke.

[daaron]

13. Wrong button. Ima noob. See below. nt

[daaron]

12. Aaaaaahhhhh.... I get it.Heheh. :)

Sorry, tho' that was a little discombobulated. Couldn't follow before, but NOW I see.

[dimbear]

14. No prob and welcome aboard. I am aware Dimbear can be obscure.