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Thu Jan 14, 2016, 05:10 PM

Who would support single payer universal health care or Medicare for all?

The Nurses Union for one.



Bernie Sanders scores nurses union endorsement

CNN)National Nurses United -- a 185,000-person union and the largest group of nurses in the country -- endorsed Bernie Sanders at their national conference Monday.

The endorsement is significant because it is Sanders' first sizable union endorsement in his quest for the Democratic nomination and comes after Sanders and other Democratic candidates pitched themselves to the AFL-CIO, a group that includes the nurses union, last month.

"Bernie Sanders has a proven track record of uncompromised activism and advocacy for working people, and a message that resonates with nurses, and, as we have all seen, tens of thousands of people across the country," NNU Executive Director RoseAnn DeMoro said in a press release announcing the endorsement. "He can talk about our issues as well as we can talk about our issues. We are proud to stand with him in his candidacy for President today."

The nurses organization officially announced their support at an event with Sanders in Oakland, California. The group, which is 90% women, called the meeting a "Brunch with Bernie."


"Bernie's issues align with nurses from top to bottom," DeMoro said, noting that Sanders earned the groups support because of his positions on trade, minimum wage and expanding Social Security and Medicare."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/politics/bernie-sanders-nurses-endorsement-2016/





I have no doubt, that their homework in regards to health care is extensive.

41 replies, 2974 views

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Reply Who would support single payer universal health care or Medicare for all? (Original post)
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 OP
Proserpina Jan 2016 #1
daleanime Jan 2016 #3
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #4
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #15
99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #30
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #34
99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #35
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #36
lewebley3 Jan 2016 #16
Hoyt Jan 2016 #27
jwirr Jan 2016 #17
Proserpina Jan 2016 #18
jwirr Jan 2016 #22
CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #29
questionseverything Jan 2016 #2
stone space Jan 2016 #5
sarge43 Jan 2016 #6
krispos42 Jan 2016 #7
pangaia Jan 2016 #8
krispos42 Jan 2016 #24
pangaia Jan 2016 #38
baldguy Jan 2016 #9
justaddh2o Jan 2016 #11
baldguy Jan 2016 #12
anigbrowl Jan 2016 #31
justaddh2o Jan 2016 #39
downeastdaniel Jan 2016 #13
baldguy Jan 2016 #14
anigbrowl Jan 2016 #32
Proserpina Jan 2016 #19
baldguy Jan 2016 #20
Doctor_J Jan 2016 #21
baldguy Jan 2016 #23
Proserpina Jan 2016 #37
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #25
Scootaloo Jan 2016 #26
Mnpaul Jan 2016 #28
MrMickeysMom Jan 2016 #10
Live and Learn Jan 2016 #33
eridani Jan 2016 #40
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #41

Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 05:15 PM

1. The two aren't exactly the same

 

Medicare is a creaky, often mangled form of healthcare.
It has significant costs due to the spotty coverage in several areas.

I would hope we could get something cleaner, clearer, and more effective for the entire nation...something that is a real life-saver as well as money-saver, for all ages, classes, etc.

And it should be completely portable, tied to a person, not to a state.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 05:19 PM

3. +1

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 05:26 PM

4. I believe Bernie's version will improve it and I agree it should be completely portable.

A couple of things about Bernie's plan it will eliminate or greatly diminish the for profit "health" insurance industry, this will save costs as their profits have nothing to do with actual health care and it will allow for much stronger negotiations in regards to prescription drug prices.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:52 PM

15. Huge +1!

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 01:38 AM

30. Plus your Doctor will say what you need/don't need, NOT your Insurance Company

 

I've been told by TWO doctors, well you need X, but your Insurance won't pay for it. My company is
United Health Care.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 02:07 AM

34. The for profit "health" insurance industry has nothing to do with health, that's one major

reason along with the exorbitant price of prescription drugs that the U.S. is ranked 37th in the World in regards to our health care system despite the fact that we spend more than any other nation on health care.



Globally, health care spending has increased dramatically since 1980. However, while health care spending increased faster than the economic growth in the late 1990s and early 2000s, it slowed with the onset of the recession in 2009. Based on a recent report, the countries spending the most on health care today allocate between 8.9% and 16.4% of their total gross domestic product (GDP) to health care costs.

Based on "Health at a Glance 2015" from the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), 24/7 Wall St. reviewed annual per capita health care expenditures in countries around the world. The United States spends about $8,713 per person on health care annually, by far the most of any country in the world. By contrast, many countries, including Turkey and India, spend less than $1,000 on health care per person annually.

Health care expenditures cover a wide range of areas, from medical practitioner salaries and costly medical procedures, to pharmaceutical products and hospital administration. Each of these areas also call for varying amounts of resources. Pharmaceutical costs are a major component of overall spending. According to the report, OECD nations spent a combined $800 billion on pharmaceuticals alone in 2013, or about 20% of all health spending.


(snip)

Though the United States spends far more on health care than any other nation, life expectancy of the average American is only 78.8 years, lower than the OECD average and the lowest among the top spending nations. Lifestyle choices in the country may be partially to blame. Slightly more than 35% of American adults are obese, a higher share than in any of the 43 countries the OECD reviewed.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/11/14/24-7-wall-st-countries-spend-most-health-care/75771044/



There are other factors as well, our lifestyle; high obesity rates, smoking etc. but I would contend economic stress aggravates some of those dynamics as well.

Peace to you, 99th_Monkey.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 02:16 AM

35. Thanks Uncle Joe for that USA Today article. The cat's out of the bag it seems

 

When USA Today starts echoing Bernies talking point, I think we're definitely making
huge progress.

It's been a great day for Bernie. My bed beckons. Good night & best to you, my DU friend

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 02:18 AM

36. I'm going to bed shortly as well.

Have a good night, my DU friend.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:54 PM

16. I support the ACA: we need to buid it: there not votes for single or money

 

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:56 PM

27. It's certainly what we have. I too think the best we can do right now is build upon it.

I think adding a public option is doable with right leadership. That us a huge step forward.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 08:16 PM

17. Medicare is not tied to a state - it is Medicaid that is. As to

the spotty coverage - there are a lot of people who are covered by Medicare that take specialized care - the mentally ill, the developmentally disabled and the elderly. With as many people as we have in the USA it cannot be one size fits all.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 08:48 PM

18. The poorest of the mentally ill, disabled, and the poorest elderly are covered by MEDICAID

 

Since both my daughter and my clients fall into those categories, I am well aware of this.

Medicare won't start for anyone before 65 as currently written. And for the elderly who cannot afford the "extra" coverage policies, Medicaid is their only recourse.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:06 PM

22. Very aware of this as it describes my family to a T. But those

who are not eligible for Medicaid - Medicare must make the allowances for their care also.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 01:31 AM

29. Wanna See "Creaky?" Try Privatization of Medicare e.g., Medicare Advantage Plans

Terrible... Fight Fight Fight... that is all the patients and the doctors do. As to Senator Sanders... A Registered Nurse that I work with told me the other day she met Bernie in D.C when she was lobbying for Universal Health Care with National Nurses United... She said Bernie was very nice and in tune with their values. She also noted that Bernie gave a little talk to all of her cohorts and herself on Universal Health Care. So THIS is nothing new to Bernie.

Bernie deserves our vote so we should give him a shot at carrying the ball forward. He has integrity and can be trusted to do as he has said he will do... K and R!

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 05:15 PM

2. does anyone know how much the premium subsidies thru the aca add up to?

k&r for the op uncle joe

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 05:34 PM

5. This Iowan would. (nt)

 

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 06:40 PM

6. Yes I would.

A healthy society is a productive, creative society.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 06:54 PM

7. Sock it to me.

I finally lost my state Medicare and had to go private. It sucks.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:04 PM

8. How does one lose Medicare?

Are you 65 or older?

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Response to pangaia (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:45 PM

24. Er, Medicaid

I got a decent-paying job, so they tossed me off the roll

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 12:44 PM

38. Ok. That I get.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:10 PM

9. Sounds great! How do you get there?

 

Do you want to build on what we already have? The ACA - Obamacare - something that we've worked long & hard for & which is extremely popular?

Or would you rather give the GOP a victory they're so desperate to have and toss it away?

Bernie wants to give Republicans something to cheer about and toss it away. Hillary doesn't.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:19 PM

11. A tax on wall street speculation

A 0.1% tax on speculative transactions on wall street-- to finance health care for all. Seems like a small price to pay to allow everyone to have health coverage, don't you think? If I could have a say, I'd move that decimal point.

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Response to justaddh2o (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:27 PM

12. Bernies plan requires a Republican victory.

 

No getting around that.

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Response to justaddh2o (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 01:56 AM

31. But that was supposed to be to fund education

 

Which I think is one of his better ideas, incidentally. Definitely not for healthcare though. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/bernie-sanders-takes-it-t_b_7438808.html

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 04:51 AM

39. Education and healthcare

His proposal for healthcare is paid for with a tax on securities transactions as well as a payroll tax, an income tax, and a surcharge on high-income individuals. The last three of those taxes should be considerably less than the amounts people pay for healthcare today, even with the ACA, if the European national health system's figures are compared to the US's.

http://www.healthcare-now.org/index.php?s=Bernie+Sanders+S.+1782

You're right though -- my first comment about the 0.1% surcharge on Wall St. speculation is proposed for funding education.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:40 PM

13. It is time enough to break the bonds with all the for profit health insurance compaines

And Bernie is the guy to do it, and no, it won't toss away the first step (ACA). Once we have it you'll only wonder why it took so long. It will be great.

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Response to downeastdaniel (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:51 PM

14. Notice Bernie hasn't said that.

 

Which is Hillary's point, I believe.

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Response to downeastdaniel (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 01:58 AM

32. I believe this about as much as I believe in Trumps beautiful wall

 

Don't tell me how great it will be. I hear that bullshit all the time in my line of work. Tell me how you're going to do it.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 08:50 PM

19. I wouldn't dream of building on sand, and neither would any contractor

 

ACA is a shell game, a con, a piece of trash, a lottery where the occasional winner is offset by millions who lose.


Throw it out, do it right.

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Response to Proserpina (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 10:52 PM

20. Hand the GOP a victory.

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:01 PM

21. Bernie wants everyone to have healthcare. Hillary doesn't.

 

Now we have to save the world's worst healthcare system just so Obama doesn't look bad?

You people are positively insane.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:33 PM

23. That's bullshit, and you know it.

 

You should stop repeating every last bit of propaganda the RW lie machine throws at you.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 07:23 AM

37. LOVE your sig line!

 

Also your perception of the insanity. Couldn't agree more.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:50 PM

25. Medicare for all would be building on what we have and Medicare is far more popular than the ACA





And more than two-thirds of respondents said Medicare needs to undergo at least some changes, however slight, to keep it financially stable in the future. A whopping 87 percent of respondents favored giving the federal government power to negotiate prescription drug prices with pharmaceutical companies, which President Barack Obama has proposed in his most recent budget plan.

Medicare and Medicaid, which in 2015 will cost more than $1 trillion in government spending, "are important programs to people," that "are really woven into the fabric of American lives," said Mollyann Brodie, a senior vice president of the Kaiser Family Foundation, and head of that group's survey team.


(snip)

However, Brodie noted that with regard to Medicare—the second most-popular government program after Social Security—"There is worry among younger Americans about whether it's going to be there for them" when they get old.

She also said that unlike the Affordable Care Act, which remains unpopular among Republicans, "We see much more across-the-board bipartisan support and agreement about these programs."

"Many more Americans feel that these programs are personally impacting their lives than are saying the same about Obamacare," Brodie said.


http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/16/medicare-medicaid-popularity-high-ahead-of-birthday.html



Obamacare is not "extremely popular"





Public opinion
Public opinion polls indicate that the United States public generally supports healthcare reform, but the public's views became increasingly negative in reaction to specific plans discussed during the legislative debate over 2009 and 2010. Polling statistics for the general population show a general negative opinion of the law in the first years; with those in favor at approximately 40% and those against at 51%, as of October 2013.[351][352] About 29% of whites approve of the law, compared with 61% of Hispanics and 91% of African Americans, according a Pew Research Center and USA Today survey conducted on 4–8 September 2013.[353] USA Today found opinions were strongly divided by age of the person at the law's inception, with a solid majority of seniors opposing the bill and a solid majority of those younger than forty years old in favor.[354]

Specific elements are very popular across the political spectrum, with the notable exception of the mandate to purchase insurance. FiveThirtyEight, describing public opinion of the law, said, "while surveys have consistently found that a plurality of Americans have an overall negative view of the Affordable Care Act, they have just as consistently shown that large majorities of Americans favor individual elements of the law."[355][356] For example, a Reuters-Ipsos poll during June 2012 indicated that 44% of Americans supported the law, with 56% against. By party affiliation, 75% of Democrats, 27% of Independents, and 14% of Republicans favored the law overall. Individual provisions of the law received varying levels of support: 82% favored banning insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, 61% favored allowing children to stay on their parents' insurance until age 26, 72% supported requiring companies with more than 50 employees to provide insurance for their employees, and 39% supported the individual mandate to own insurance or pay a penalty. By party affiliation, 19% of Republicans, 27% of Independents, and 59% of Democrats favored the mandate.[357] Other polls showed additional provisions receiving majority support include the creation of insurance exchanges, pooling small businesses and the uninsured with other consumers so that more people can take advantage of large group pricing benefits, and providing subsidies to individuals and families to make health insurance more affordable.[358][359] Other specific ideas that were not enacted but which showed majority support included importing prescription drugs from Canada (with its lower, government-controlled prices),[360] limiting malpractice awards, reducing the age to qualify for Medicare, and the Public health insurance option.[361]

Pollsters probed the reasons for opposition.[362] In a CNN poll, 62% of respondents said they thought the ACA would "increase the amount of money they personally spend on health care", 56% said the bill "gives the government too much involvement in health care", and 19% said they thought they and their families would be better off with the legislation.[363] Other polls found that people were concerned that the law would cost more than projected, and would not do enough to control the cost of health care affecting their families.[364]

However, part of the opposition to the law is because some Americans believe the reform did not go far enough: A Reuters-Ipsos poll indicated that, for those opposed to the bill, 71% of Republican opponents reject it overall while 29% believed it did not go far enough; independent opponents were divided 67% to 33%; and among the relatively much smaller group of Democratic opponents, 49% reject it overall, and 51% wanted the measure to go further.[357]

As of 2011 many Democrats believed that the ACA would grow more popular over time, like Medicare did after its implementation,[365] as the benefits of the law take effect and close the information gap about the contents of the bill.[355][356][366]

In June 2013, a majority of the public (52–34%) indicated a desire for "Congress to implement or tinker with the law rather than repeal it".[367] Following the Supreme Court upholding the constitutionality of the individual mandate in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, a poll released in July 2012 showed that "most Americans (56%) want to see critics of President Obama's health care law drop efforts to block it and move on to other national issues."[368] The RAND Health Reform Opinion Study for May 1, 2014, showed that 48.9% of respondents had an unfavorable view of the ACA vs. 38.3% who had a favorable view (of more than 5,500 individuals).[369]

Polling averages from RealClearPolitics showed public approval of the ACA as 52.1% against and 38.6% for (poll averages from February 27 to March 25, 2014).[351]

An Associated Press-GfK poll released March 28, 2014 showed that 26% of Americans support the ACA.[370]

A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll released April 30, 2014, indicated that 8% of respondents say that the Affordable Care Act "is working well the way it is."[371]

By the end of 2014, a Rasmussen 3-option poll showed Repeal: 30%, Leave as is: 13%, Improve: 52%, i.e., 65% wanted to leave the ACA alone or improve upon it.[372]

In June 2015, a CBS News/New York Times poll showed that 47% of Americans approved the health care law. This was the first time that a major poll indicated that the number of Americans who approved the ACA is bigger than the ones who disapprove it, though by a small margin.[373]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act



While I do believe Obamacare has some great features about it, the policy also some major shortcomings, institutionalizing the for profit health insurance industry being just one. Their profits having nothing to do with actual health care, that system is dysfunctional.

Not being able to negotiate lower drug prices being another.


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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:56 PM

26. I like the cut of your false dichotomy.

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 11:57 PM

28. Extremely popular?

I don't see it. Almost all of the polling shows otherwise.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

and it does allow states to come up with their own plans. I'm liking what I'm hearing about the Colorado plan. Leave Medicare and the VA alone, offer an affordable policy to everyone else and allow people to buy insurance on the private market if they wish.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:14 PM

10. As a respiratory therapist for 41 years, I support single payer...

You'll always find the uninformed in and out of heath care, but what you will also find in healthcare are the persons who have provided under their own license the kind of care found everywhere from the doctor's office to the ICU and emergency room.

We understand what happens to patients in that revolving door, who profits the most from insufficient revolving doors, and why it costs the consumer so much.

The patients have to be their own best advocate for staying healthy because the model initially known as "health maintenance" never maintained health, but earned profits for private insurers, based on manipulated outcomes that just drove up the expense.

The giant insurance companies that earned a low profit margin in insuring homes and property, damned well made it up in spades based on the portion of health care insurance under that big umbrella. Again, they save, because the claims for care are controlled. The patient can't do a damned thing about that.

The giant pharmaceutical companies lobbied their way around competition and lower drug costs to consumers by controlling what was introduced on the market to "maintain health" and reducing drugs that come off patent to be produced generically.

Giant health care systems who by up physician practices and become self insured have managed to control who gets treated and who reimburses services to achieve profit margins, while lobbying each state to classify their health care system as "non-profit". They don't pay property taxes or for the police and fire and public works surrounding their giant campus, but they control giant health care markets.

We're getting fucked over pretty much every day by this nonsense.

SINGLE PAYER/Medicare for All is the answer to this nonsense. True health maintenance is a reachable goal because there will be millions and millions of workers who are covered as a right, not out of desperation to get any lousy job just for "health care".

Strongly coinciding with this reality under Bernie Sanders are sustainable industries, fair trade and labor negotiations to sustain REAL jobs. This invigorates and stimulates middle class growth.

Next?

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 02:04 AM

33. K&R nt

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:10 AM

40. In 1993 Meeting, Hillary Clinton Acknowledged "Convincing Case" for Bernie's Health Plan


http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/34648-in-1993-meeting-hillary-clinton-acknowledged-qconvincing-caseq-for-bernies-health-plan

Two doctors who met privately with Hillary Clinton during the 1993 health reform debate say she agreed that single-payer healthcare would be good for Americans. Their recollections raise questions about both the motive and the sincerity of Clinton’s recent assault on Democratic presidential rival Bernie Sanders for supporting such a system.

Until Clinton’s pivot, the accepted Democratic view was that single-payer was the best solution in theory, but that it was politically unrealistic. Clinton’s new critiques, by contrast, are an attempt to make Sanders’s single-payer proposals sound costly and destructive.

Shortly after President Bill Clinton took office, Hillary Clinton was tasked to assemble a health care reform proposal. As a part of that process, she met with advocates of different approaches, including two physicians who advocated for a single-payer system, in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all healthcare costs

“I’m not sure who arranged the meeting to be honest, I think there was pressure to have the meeting from Sanders [then a member of Congress] but also from [civil rights leader] Jesse Jackson,” David Himmelstein, who today is a lecturer at Harvard Medical School, told The Intercept. “What I know is we got a call from Ira Magaziner’s office. Ira Magaziner was Hillary’s right-hand man [in the health reform debate].” Magaziner wanted the single-payer advocates to have their say with the First Lady.

Himmelstein described an intimate meeting with Clinton that also included fellow single-payer advocate Steffie Woolhandler and only “one or two aides” in the White House executive office building. The meeting went on for several hours, with Clinton asking both doctors a flurry of questions.

“We had very substantial time to make that case and it was a very friendly conversation, it was not an antagonistic conversation in any way,” said Himmelstein





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Response to eridani (Reply #40)

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 05:27 AM

41. One could look at that in two ways, either Hillary truly believed

in the efficiency of universal single payer, then money and ambition corrupted her point of view since or she never believed it in the first place and it was all just lip service to placate the left.



She was definitely implying that, that she would endorse it but that it was unrealistic,” added Woolhandler.

But both Himmelstein and Woolhandler did note that Clinton was clearly impressed by the data presented to her, and said she used it to decry the administrative costs of private health insurance at a speech at the Institute of Medicine a few months later.

In that speech, as documented in the book The Unique Voice of Hillary Clinton: A Portrait in Her Own Words, Clinton called for the need to “achieve savings and eliminate inefficiencies”. In a speech a month later at Marshall University on November 4, 1993, she went further. “If we had done what Harry Truman wanted us to do back then, we would be a lot better off, both financially and in our ability to provide every American with health care,” she said. Truman proposed a single-payer universal health care program financed by taxes on all working Americans.




I would say the former is a more likely scenario but I couldn't entirely eliminate the latter.

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