Sanders Supporters:If he wins don't be surprised when he surrounds himself with people you despise

[Empowerer]

I see a lot of very harsh criticism by many Sanders supporters on this board of anyone who: 1) is a politician (other than Sanders); has worked in government; 3) is a lobbyist or works in any industry deemed "bad," including the financial, business, healthcare industries; 4) has a high income or any measure of wealth, whether earned or inherited. The consensus is that these people are part of the "Establishment," among the "elite," "corporatists" and worse.

But you should prepare yourself for the very likely scenario that, if Bernie Sanders becomes President, he's going to hire a lot of these very people to work in or advise his administration. You may not believe it and insist that he won't, but he's going to need the keenest minds, the sharpest strategists, people with track records of success, a proven ability to get things done, and very large Rolodexes (yes, some people still have these). While it's a sweet idea to bring in only people who have never sullied themselves in the Washington/government/finance ponds, Bernie Sanders is not going to set himself up to fail by surrounding himself with neophytes with good hearts, pure souls but no experience in the fields that he would be governing. A lot of the people you despise - usually just by virtue of the fields in which they work - work where they do, are well paid and successful because they are experts who are very good at what they do and know their area inside and out. Sanders would be crazy not to hire them - and I have absolutely no doubt that he would. Certainly, he will also have other folks who don't come from these circles, but I don't think they would be the dominant players in his Administration - at least not for long.

So, before you get too far out there on beating up on these folks, you should play this out to its logical conclusion - and don't be surprised or pissed off at Sanders for "betraying" what you think he stands for when he surrounds himself with exactly the kind of people you can't stand.

Just a little friendly advice...

[forest444]

1. The same can probably be said for any winning politician.

What's important is that when the lucky winner walks into a room filled with such people, he not leave his (or her) convictions at the door.

[uponit7771]

6. Or vote against a bill because of rural?!?! Sanders already has done that...

... The consummate he's better than her on that seems more rosy glasses than reality

[Scootaloo]

2. Who, exactly, do you think you are "schooling," here?

And more importantly, why do you feel so deeply entitled to deliver such a lecture?

[Empowerer]

10. I'm at least as "entitled" to speak my mind as you are to demand I provide you my bona fides ...

[Scootaloo]

11. Sure. I'm just saying it's incredibly arrogant and presumptuous.

Who do you think you are? 'Cause all i'm seeing is some dude slinging keys on a messageboard.

[Empowerer]

20. I'm not a "dude."

And if you're not interested in what I have to say, you're welcome to just ignore me. Otherwise, you're going to have to put up with watching me "slinging keys on a message board" - just as you are doing.

[Scootaloo]

23. i'm tired of being chided by nobodies who imagine themselves in a position to talk down to me

You are in no place to attempt to 'school" me or anyone else, and this arrogance is the big problem with both you and Hillary Clinton. This presumption that you are superior, entitled to put your finger in people's faces and tell them what.

It's not that i'm not interested in what you have to say, it's that I'm thoroughly disgusted by the attitude you evince while saying it.

[Empowerer]

25. It sounds like you have some personal issues that have nothing to do with me

So, as I said, please feel free to ignore me if you feel that my posts are a personal attack on you.

[Puglover]

125. Pssst.

Scoot is spot on. Check the reaction to this your other threads.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

142. Sounds like you think Bernie is going to win then

we seem to have a lot of 'what is Bernie going to do when he is president' posts

[Empowerer]

143. I don't think he's necessarily going to win. I just don't think he's not going to win.

[uponit7771]

3. Just posted about this on another thread seconds ago that out of the millions of people

... Who are going to work for the federal government there will be at least one that's associate with a hedge fund manger or bank.

The consummate Hillary hate becomes wingerish noise that's not far from reflexive

[ChairmanAgnostic]

70. She did her best to earn it.

[chervilant]

4. Oh, goodie,

another sophomoric OP for my trash thread option.

[99th_Monkey]

5. We saw Obama do that, agreed. But Bernie is different in one big important way

He's been in DC for decades and knows who all the players are (elected and otherwise) and
also knows EXACTLY who he can trust and who he can't. This will give him a big advantage
when picking his cabinet, advisors and such.

He also is a well practiced coalition builder, having founded the progressive caucus, and any
number of other examples, that I'm too tired to hunt down right now . it's late, and I'm headed
to bed, .. but I think you get my point.

[uponit7771]

14. If it comes to coalition Sanders isn't doing to we'll right now... Not to many people who've been

... In congress are backing him.

I'm sure that will change once he gets the dem nod, people will surround him with support but then Sanders will make sure to tell all the ones who've ever worked for a bank or hedge fund to pound sand?

I don't think so...

[99th_Monkey]

22. You know as well as I do that Hillary had most of those 'endorsements' before

Bernie even announced, and/or while he was still "a long-shot 'fringe' candidate no one
took seriously. I'm sure she had the same thing going for her in 2008.

I'm not too worries about that anymore. Many of them are 'ghost' endorsements as far
as I'm concerned and am certain many of them are having second thoughts now, but are
admittedly in a rather awkward bind, seeing how well Bernie is now doing.

[uponit7771]

32. Couple of points

Those aren't ghost endorsements... They're real people, Clinton had the relationships already inside and outside of congress

And

Clinton firewall is South Carolina... Sanders makes a good showing there then there's a race but no one is going to switch on delegates or endorsements because Sanders is closing now in Sanders wheel house states.

Sanders weakness outside of congress is that he hasn't built a relationship outside of rural in VT demographics...

If he shows he can build that then I can see a switch

[99th_Monkey]

38. Fair enough. We shall see what we shall see.

However, you haven't convinced me that some those super-early endorsements are not now
rethinking who they'd like to support, based on how dramatically the landscape is now, as
opposed to when Bernie announced. What they decide do with that, who knows.

Reasonable people can disagree about that. Thanks for the exchange, and good nite.

[uponit7771]

39. Sanders is closing but not surpassed Clinton... The closing was expected... Surpassing her in sc isn

[madokie]

49. Hey!

come back to the real world. The world that Hillary Clinton will never be a President in.

There is no way she can win the general election and it looks more and more like there is no way she will even be our nominee. She doesn't have the personality for the job, simple as that.

For every person who says they'll vote for her there are hundreds of people who wouldn't vote for her on a bet.
I'll vote for her if I have to, I'm like that but it won't be with the same gusto as I would Bernie or did with Obama or Jimmy before him. Hell I even voted for Bill only to have a lot of underhanded shit happen on his watch and much of it with his signature, trade agreements, Glass Stegal, telecommunication act, and on and on. No more Clinton's for me if at all possible.

[uponit7771]

144. If Trump is selected as GOP candidate Donald Duck can win the election, he's a hateful bastard...

... that will be easy to demonize.

Also,... speaking of real world

Hillary Clinton is more favorably seen among dems than Sanders...

That's facts... WAPO put this out 2 days ago and Sanders camp is still in the bubble about it; no one in the dem isle hates Hillary as much as Sanders camp does...

Factually no one has been convinced that Hillary is teh Satan in the last 6 months so its wasted energy to continue on that track

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/13/poll-views-of-trump-carson-and-bush-dim-as-christie-and-cruz-rise/

THE WASHINGTON POST
National impressions have the potential to shift after early nomination contests in Iowa and New Hampshire; polls show Sanders and Clinton in a tight race in Iowa, while Sanders has an apparent lead in New Hampshire. It's unclear how much Sanders appeal will extend beyond these early contests, including states with large African American and Hispanics populations who have been more supportive of Clinton this cycle.

Sanders appears to have made some gains with African-American, Hispanic and other non-white Democrats, however. By 51 percent to 32 percent, more non-white Democrats offer favorable than unfavorable impressions of Sanders, compared with a 36-29 favorable-unfavorable split in October and 41-31 margin in November.

Clinton still outpaces Sanders across all demographic subgroups of Democrats — most notably, non-whites (92 percent favorable) and liberals, with whom 88 percent rate Clinton positively and 74 percent say the same of Sanders. But Clinton's advantage in favorable ratings is clearest among moderate and conservative Democrats, among whom 80 percent give Clinton favorable marks but only 41 percent rate Sanders positively.

[madokie]

146. I will simply point you to this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511010372

and you figure it out for yourself. I can't help you

In the real world I don't see any Hillary voters anymore where a few years ago I did. I say a few years ago because we all have known that as long as she's drawing breath and still able to cloth herself each morning she will continue to strive for the oval office. She wants that worse than anything in the world and has for a long long ass time. Like since bill's walking into the oval office to be exact. In my book thats a long as time.
In the real world most people see Bill Clinton as what he was and what they see is he was not the golden goose we were led to believe for so many years. A lot of bad shit for the very people who will for sure vote for Bernie happened because of Bill and his ways. Do you really need me to make a list of those for you?? I can but right now I'm moving on to more fertile land, ie some reading to catch up on.

[lostnfound]

108. Exposing the truth from the presidential pulpit will be his biggest early value

He speaks plainly. He may be able to lure a fair share of the republican base back from the trickledown fantasy land that they've been sleepwalking in, and encourage the large numbers of non voting public to get active. It will take time but watching Republicans (and strong corporate Democrats) try to explain their pro-corporate, anti-99% positions against Bernie's ideas, over time, will be entertaining.
He will shift the goal posts of what is acceptable political discourse.

[uponit7771]

145. No he wont, where in the world are people getting this from?!!? They hate, that's what lures them

... and they don't care much outside of that right now.

Those aren't working poor who surround Trump...

[Skwmom]

43. So the crooks and sell out crowd aren't endorsing him.. Thank God! n/t

[madokie]

50. That is good to know huh

[Mnpaul]

64. I don't see him going there

I would bet good money that people like Greenspan and Summers won't be on his financial team.

[ancianita]

73. True, but not too many establishment DNC congress people lined up for Obama, either.

Bernie isn't getting special benign neglect from the establishment party. Every progressive put forward will continue to get this treatment until the makeup of Congress changes.

To me, the endorsement count has lost credibility and authority with the mass of voters, if it ever had any to start with.

[Live and Learn]

7. Meh... nt

[think]

8. rust never sleeps....

[mikehiggins]

9. Different is different

I'm sure Sanders will appoint people to Cabinet positions, and so forth, that his supporters (including me) won't like. What I don't agree with is the idea that he will HAVE to hire the people who have such great expertise in certain fields, like economics, that they have thoroughly screwed the pooch for years with a good deal of success.

Raising the standards won't really be that hard. Sanders' opponents suggest that he's sort of been sitting on his hands since going to Congress, and has no idea of the scope and magnitude of shaking up the Feds. That really isn't likely. I don't see, for example, anybody like Alan Greenspan being asked to join the Sanders administration. There won't be any Kissinger clones either.

The problem for savants and soothsayers is that they don't believe a different path is possible and that, therefore, no matter who sits in the Oval Office he'll be forced to play the game the same-old, same-old way. Sanders supporters, like that guy who just endorsed him (used to hang out with Teddy Kennedy) don't see it that way. We know that different is HARD and that a lot of hands will be turned against the old jewish guy from brooklyn and Burlington. Struggle is inevitable, no matter who takes the lead.

The real difference is we believe real change is possible, no matter how hard the struggle.

Wait and see.

[Empowerer]

17. I'm not saying he "HAS" to hire people who've "screwed the pooch"

I'm pointing out that he will bring in the kind of people that some of his supporters absolutely despise for no reason other than they are associated with certain positions and industries and move in certain circles, regardless whether they have personally done anything wrong. This board is full of accusations and dismissals of people because "he works for a hedge fund" or "she's connected to Wall Street," "he's a career politician." For example, just the other day, we saw the Secretary of Transportation, who by all accounts is a gifted and committed public servant, smeared as an elitist, an "establishment hack" crony after he endorsed Sen. Clinton.

It sounds as if you don't harbor this attitude, which I appreciate. But some supporters will be in for a rude awakening if Sanders wins and they look up to find that he has to fill a lot of positions that many of his supporters think are, in and of themselves, corrupting.

[madokie]

51. How do you know all of this I ask

Bernie Sanders is a good down to earth person and most if not all of his supporters are of the same cloth. So where do you get off on telling us where or how we're going to react?

Bernie Sanders will be our next President whether you like that or not, Get used to it 'cause it's going to happen. The momentum is behind him.

[libdem4life]

134. In spite of your words, are you not, in fact, reading Bernie's mind? Oh, and in addition

reading the minds and reactions of his supporters. Such superiority...stunning.

[uponit7771]

24. People know there's a different way but not a purist one that Sanders himself derides Clinton for..

... not taking.

Different doesn't mean go and tear down everything that's there already...

That's the expectation Sanders is setting for multiple areas of the government including who he surround himself with

[Dawson Leery]

12. Bernie is not different.

The left flank got their way in 2008. This time, go with someone who has the experience and connections to make things happen.

That is NOT Bernie.

Obama promised them perfection, they did not get that, now they are mad.
Bernie is doing the same thing.

[think]

13. Who are you? And why are you here?

[Dawson Leery]

15. I support Hillary.

That is why I am here right now.

Sadly, the regressive left thinks they have the right to tell people where to be.

[think]

16. All you do is denigrate the left. Are you right?

[leftofcool]

63. He doesn't denigrate anyone. He knows bernie can't win.

[think]

80. "The professional left." "The regressive left." "The left flank."

Hello?

[whathehell]

102. He doesn't "know' any such thing and neither do you.

[Scootaloo]

28. First "professional left," now "regressive left."

I have no doubts that you support clinton though. Absolutely none at all.

[Art_from_Ark]

44. Wait a minute! I thought Clinton was the

"By golly, you better believe I'm the Progressive! Ain't nobody more Progressive than me!" candidate

[Scootaloo]

46. She's also your Croatian great-aunt. Or... something, maybe it gets lost in the shaky translation

[uponit7771]

19. +1, that's been noted over and over again on GDP that Sanders just picked different vises...

... Instead of money it was guns...

Obama didn't think that the congress would get historically gerrymandered by the GOP...

I don't fault him for that but now that we know there's no need for people to feign perfection

[stone space]

26. Wow! Somebody has been upset at "the left flank" for a long, long time.

The left flank got their way in 2008. This time, go with someone who has the experience and connections to make things happen.

2008 really pissed you off, huh?

[Mnpaul]

68. The left flank got their way in 2008?

In what alternative reality? We got a cabinet full of DLC Dems and Republicans. The only lefty in the bunch was quickly discarded. We got Republican based healthcare policy(the mandate was Hillary's plan) and more RW foreign policy. We also saw lefty organizations attacked by the FBI. We saw the continuation of Bush's unconstitutional warrantless wiretapping. People are sick of RW policy and Hillary loves it.

and we can see how Hillary's experience and connections are working for her campaign. She started out with 50 point leads which have now fallen to single digits. Maybe you should step out of that reality bubble and take a look around in the real world.

[Dawson Leery]

118. You got your pony of choice, Obama.

The CBS and Investors polls have small samples and large margin of errors.

[LondonReign2]

132. Right of center Obama was too progessive for you, eh?

Good to know.

[Mnpaul]

137. My pony of choice?

guess again. Not even close.

[LondonReign2]

131. Rah for the Right Flank!

[Warren Stupidity]

140. Dude, Obama an Clinton both ran as center right

democrats in 2008.

[draa]

18. Hahaha,

now you folks are acknowledging he can win?

Just 2 moths ago an OP like this would have been unheard of. No way would a Clinton supporter would have said "If he wins..." Too damn funny.

[Empowerer]

21. Whatever

[Skwmom]

27. Those corporate "sharp minds" have done wonders for this country and its people.

rofl: :

[Cleita]

29. Those politicians who have debts to pay to donors do that.

Since Bernie hasn't taken any bribe contributions up until now, nor do I think he will, I don't think we have to worry.

[Empowerer]

31. That has nothing to do with it

I think you're being very naive if you believe he can put together a government without bringing in some people you can't stand.

[think]

36. There will always be TPTB

[Cleita]

114. I doubt it. I seem to like what he does.

Funny how that happens.

[madokie]

52. I've given to him 4 or 5 times now

and I'm not going to try to tell him how to do his business at all, no plans to. To prove your point that is.

I TRUST Bernie Sanders to do what is right by me, our country and my fellow inhabitants on this earth. simple

[Cleita]

113. So do I.

[joshcryer]

30. His cabinet won't be center right appointments.

[uponit7771]

34. I don't believe this for a second... The purist will be disappointed

[Empowerer]

37. I'm wasn't talking about their politics

But since you mentioned it, that will likely be a big disappointment to you, as well, since he probably will bring in people from the center and center right - that's the only way to build a government. Yes, he will have lots of folks from the left, but he can't and won't have a government populated by one section of one wing. It won't fly and he would epically fail before he even got through his first 100 days.

Remember a couple of weeks ago when there was such a blow up about Sanders reaching out to Trump supporters? And one of the justifications for that was that he was going to bring the country together, etc.? Well, folks can't make that argument and then turn around and say that no one to the right of the very left wing of the Democratic Party can be in the Administration. You can't have it both ways.

[Dawson Leery]

33. kick

[litlbilly]

35. I figure as long as he doesnt appoint you, I'm good with whoever he picks. He it trustworthy,

and honest so, his decisions will be fine with me. I'm good as long as the picker is not Hillary

[bvf]

40. Thanks, Professor. Gee, but you're smart! n/t

[Kalidurga]

41. Well Hillary already has done this and they are her biggest donors.

[senz]

42. Two things come through loud and clear in your OP.

You don't know Sanders and you don't know Sanders supporters.

[Betty Karlson]

45. Thanks for the advice.

He's been surrounded by such people all his political life, and he's still clean. I don't expect much trouble from continued surrounding of Sanders by these people.

[Fumesucker]

47. The grapes, they are sour

Let us know when Bernie gives Henry the K a big hug

[Zen Democrat]

104. OMG she's consorting with evil personified, America's Dr. Strangelove.

[madokie]

48. For the most part

the only people who pulled that shit here the last time were people who didn't get their pony. I've been here a long time and I seen it with my own eyes and read the shit hurled at Obama myself.
I suspect the same will be coming out of the woodwork to do a number on Bernie too once he takes the oath of office.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. I suspect it's safe to say he's not going to give Debbie Wasserman Schultz a job.

So beyond that, I'm good.

[GoneFishin]

54. I'll take my chances.

[DonCoquixote]

55. Dear sir or Madam

Hillary already surround herself with people we despise. Lloyd Blankfeld, Bibi Netanyahu, Cory Booker, Erskine Bowles, Al From, all people who have attacked us and, in the case of Rham Emmanuel, called us "retards." While a promise for her to put someone like Paul Krugman as Treasury Secretary would make me giddy, the fact is you cannot sell most of her friends as assets. They are the people who, five minutes after she beats the GOP, will say "ok, it's time to get rid of all those yucky lefties so we can be the modern party." Many of us are choking that down because we do not want the GOP, but do not feed us gruel and tell us it is anything but.

[nolabels]

107. You seem to be pulling some punches, and contempt of those people for the process was just the start

Imagine the gall and impropriety if any professional sports league had purchased an individual team through donations from its most wealthy members and then cooked the books so that team could win. Well that is Camp Weather-Vane's function to a tee. They even have the head referee (DWS) singing on cue.

I wouldn't expect any fair rendering from the wall street and corporate backers at any point. What i am expecting is much worse to come as a matter of fact. I also have no worries, since Bernie has been a de factor game and rule observer for a LONG TIME. Any stuff they try to hurl at him just rolls off. It's one of the reasons rules are made, guideposts to keep things working.

[DonCoquixote]

124. admittedly I was trying to make the stew

softer for the OP to chew, which is kind of pointless as most die hard Hillary partisans would puke it back.

[cali]

56. Unlikely that he'll suddenly change. He's represented me for almost 3 decades

I think I'm a a tad more familiar with him than you. Does that mean he'll never appoint or hire people I don't care for? No, but surround himself with? Nope. Not a chance.

[djean111]

57. Hillary has already surrounded herself, IMO, with people I don't like.

She is beholden to banks, to Wall Street, to Pharma, private insurance, etc.
So Bernie cannot possible be "worse".

Your argument seems pointless - are you really trying to say something like "better the devil you know"?
A huge part of the reason I will not support Hillary is the people and interests she has already surrounded herself with.
And she is dishonest.

Bernie wins my vote and support, hands down. if this is some sort of scare tactic, it is a complete and utter failure.

[EdwardBernays]

58. Just so we're clear

Who's" getting stuff done"?

Americans are so pissed because nothing is being done to help them.

And the solutions being offered by the rich lobbyist advisors is more of the same handouts to big business.

He may hire people I don't like but I strongly doubt he's going to have the same sort of lobbyists around him that Hillary or any Republican would have.

And since those are our options...

[randome]

69. And nothing WILL get done until Congress is reconfigured.

Sanders is not the Savior that some (not saying you) think he is. If Sanders truly represents the will of the people, then where is that will when it comes to electing representatives, which is far more important?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[EdwardBernays]

72. Wellllll

Yes and no.

The President is the leader of the party and has a huge bully pulpit. That's not completely insignificant.

Plus if a actually vaguely liberal guy got into power and America didn't explode people would be more like to vote for other vaguely liberal people. Snowball effect.

But largely yes. As long as the country is so radically divided very little radical will change.

[MrMickeysMom]

59. In other news.... Cats meow.

Meow...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

60. I'm pretty sure I won't be surprised when Hillary surrounds herself with people I despise.

[djean111]

61. Hilariously, that seems to be presented as a "plus" here. bwahahaha!

[Vattel]

62. I don't care if he has some rich people in his administration.

As long as they do a good job, why would anyone care?

[mmonk]

65. I believe you are confusing him with Democrats

who pretend to be progressive in primaries and when elected, choose corporatists and Wall Steeters to run the executive branch, the treasury, and fed head.

[99Forever]

66. Your concern is noted.

And ignored for the ridiculous bullshit it is.

I relish the smell of Hillarian desperation in the morning.

[hobbit709]

67. I'm sure that HRC would surround herself with people that absolutely love the 99%

[Empowerer]

78. This isn't about Hillary Clinton

This is about Bernie Sanders.

[Logical]

85. You are really soundind desperate! nt

[Empowerer]

87. Only to someone not paying attention

[Logical]

90. Lol, it is always some BS bogus reason why Hillary needs to win, we are not that stupid! Nt

[Empowerer]

96. Who said anything about "Hillary needs to win?" I certainly didn't

I'm talking about what will happen if Sanders wins. And I'm not in any way criticizing him or saying it's a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that, in the real world, there will be some things he has to do. That's not a slam or an attempt to get anyone to vote for Hillary - I certainly don't think that anyone who would be offended at the thought that Sanders would appoint people they think are corporatist crook sellouts would ever consider voting for Hillary Clinton instead. But it is good for Sanders supporters to get used to the idea that, if he wins, the Administration will include some people they don't like.

I'm just trying to inject some reality into the discussion. Apparently, you're having some difficulty with that.

[Logical]

99. Your posting history is clear! Like i said, nice try! Nt

[Empowerer]

100. Apparently, you think that I'm as narrow-minded as you seem to be

But unlike you, the fact that I may or may not support one candidate does not mean that I am out to get any of the other candidates.

But if you think that any view I've expressed completely negates any comment I make concerning Bernie Sanders, please feel free to ignore me.

[Logical]

111. Ignore you? No way, need to keep an eye on you. Nt

[Empowerer]

112. You need to "keep an eye on" me?

Wow. Ok.

Be my guest.

[CoffeeCat]

88. This is where Hillary Clinton fails in campaigns

These ridiculous narratives are catapulted out into the void. But what fails to register with the Hillary camp is that that these "memes", "narratives" "talking points"--whatever you want to call them--are so insanely ridiculous that the person launching the message ends up being damaged more than the intended target, Bernie.

It's similar to when Hillary criticized Bernie's Wall Street plan as not being tough enough. That narrative was completely abandoned by Hillary's camp. Gee, I wonder why?

Same with this. I mean, it's almost too easy.

Hillary has spent a lifetime surrounded by two varieties: 1.) Corporate jack holes; 2.) Warmongering jack holes. One of my all-time favorites is Robert Kagan--the founder of the neocon movement and a man that Hillary picked to be her Middle East foreign-policy advisor while she was SOS. We all know Robert Kagan. The original author of the PNAC war plan. The man who spearheaded the Iraq War effort. The man has never met a Middle-East war that he didn't love. He also signed the infamous 1998 letter to Bill Clinton--demanding an Iraq War.

I could literally write pages and pages of relationships that Hillary Clinton has with the defense industry, Wall Street, big Pharma, and on and on. But why bore everybody with what is all ready obvious?

I love this narrative. It will help Bernie. Please, keep going. Keep talking. Keep speculating about baseless, nightmarish "what ifs" about Bernie that are laughable. Meanwhile, everyone will be discussing the REAL LIFE jack holes with whom Hillary has surrounded herself. So many fun examples from which to choose!

(Folks, I think the psycho phase of this primary has officially launched. Hang on to your hats. And keep your hands and feet inside the ride).

[Empowerer]

89. Good Lord

This has nothing to do with Hillary. I am talking to Sanders supporters and offering some advice that I think will be helpful. This isn't a knock on Sanders - although it does seem that many of you think that any comment that isn't flowing with praise for him is an attack on him and an attempt to boost Clinton.

You say, "I love this narrative. It will help Bernie." Good - I'm glad you think so. That's the point. Unlike many Sanders supporters, I don't hate or wish ill on any of the Democratic candidates. And I want whoever wins to be a success in office. And I know that if he wins, in order to be successful, Sanders will need to bring in to his Administration some people that many of his supporters don't like. I just hope that, if he wins and he does this, that people won't turn on him the way they turn on everyone else who doesn't toe a certain line - a line that's impossible and even irresponsible to toe if you're President of the United States.

[Logical]

91. Lol, nothing to do with hillary! Classic. Nt

[Empowerer]

92. Only for folks like you who are so obsessed with her that you find it impossible

to engage in any discussion without bringing her up.

[Logical]

98. I read your other hillary posts, nice try, you are a Hillary fan! nt

[ancianita]

71. Probably, but Bernie's in an experienced position to set the course of use of their expertise.

I'll trust him to do that.

His real problem will be with the corporate sellouts of Congress who will likely fight him on his agenda every bit as hard as they've fought Obama.

Until we can get a House composition closer to a majority, he'll have a hard time.

I'm really interested in how he'll work with his Joint Chiefs, how much they'll trust him. How he'll handle the top level information on world events that he's not privy to right now.

I think your caution is legitimate, that we should be realists about who he'll need to work with. I'd add that we also might likely be pleasantly surprised about how he pulls them in to work with him back.

[Empowerer]

76. You are right about Congress

It's going to take a huge effort this fall and in the next mid-term to start flipping the House and Senate back to Democratic control, or regardless which Democrat becomes President, it's going to be difficult to get anything done.

And not just Congress - we have to get the state legislatures back. One of my great frustrations in recent years was how so many progressives, disappointed that President Obama didn't do everything they wanted in his first two years, decided to "teach him a lesson" by not voting in the 2010 mid-terms, probably one of the most short-sighted and naive political moves in recent decades. Not only did their staying home help to turn the state houses and Governors mansions over to Republicans across the country, it did so in a decennial year when redistricting was being done. As a result, the Republicans in control of state government were handed the power to gerrymander districts so tightly that they guaranteed Republican control of the House for the next decade.

We have to get that back. And I fear that, if he's elected, the people who expect Sanders to wave a magic wand and change the world the way they want him to will be so disappointed when he doesn't - because he won't because he can't - that they will repeat what happened in 2010 and shoot the movement in the foot. While some posters here have bizarrely accused me of making this point in order to undermine Sanders, I'm actually trying to help lower expectations so that we don't end up in that situation should he win.

[ancianita]

103. Totally with you. Progs withdrew just as Koch types started buying up state governments. ALEC

got outted, but by then the rich donor/vote ratio was cast, and the increase in Republican governors set legislative agendas.

This is an uphill slog for awhile. If the people who voted for Obama TWICE get out again, we can bear more left with domestic spending.

I seriously doubt that Hillary would manage any better. I think she'd just pose as tough like her hub did with Republicans back in the day, and we'd be in for some pretty corporate solidification of government.

[Armstead]

74. There are expertsd and there are experts

One would assume if elected, he would also work with a broad spectrum of people. And listen to a broad spectrum of people. Including those who I (we) might not like or agree with.

But it boils down to who calls the shots -- and who sets the tone and direction and makes the ultimate decisions.

And there are experts and there are experts. There are people in business and finance who are not greedy assholes.

From what I read of his time as mayor, he did bring in experts. He also worked with the local business establishment. He did a lot of things Republican conservatives like, such as more efficiency. He also occasionally did things that made the eyebrows of progressives raise.

Which is fine with me. Because he balanced efficiency and pragmatism with his basic message and pushed things in the right direction.

[NCTraveler]

75. Seems there might have been a deal struck...

To garner Sanders vote for the Audit the Fed bill. He had voted against it in the past.

[Vinca]

77. Well, I guess it will have to be a surprise for us.

No surprises with Hillary, we already know who the close advisors of the Clintons are and it's pretty much a roster of the 1%.

[Empowerer]

79. This isn't about Hillary Clinton

Funny how, no matter the topic, somehow the conversation always shifts to how awful Hillary is.

We get it. You don't like her. You think she's corrupt. Got it.

But that's completely beside the point of this OP.

[CoffeeCat]

81. Is this really going to be the new narrative?

I skimmed through this. I was bored.

So, Bernie isn't any different? That's the new meme? The new schtickaroo?

I give this narrative 24 hours tops, before its laughed off of the internet and abandoned for something new and even more insightful like,

"Bernie claims to hate Wall Street, but he really doesn't. Someone saw him spending money at a local Iowa convenience store."

[Empowerer]

86. It's not a "narrative" - it's a point of view

If you were so bored, why bother to respond? And if you didn't really read it, but only skimmed it, that at least partly explains why it seems to have gone right over your head.

[CoffeeCat]

97. It's a "narrative" all right...

...and one that will be abandoned when the blowback falls hard on Hillary.

You do realize that this will be the fallout, correct?

Because there are NO examples of Bernie surrounding himself with corrupt jerks, warmongers, Wall Street moguls, Goldman psychos, and other assorted powerful moneyed interests. You've got nothing, other than a lame, baseless prediction.

But uh oh! There are at least a bajillion examples of Hillary actually doing this. Real, life examples.

I mean, you get that right?

This is the intellectual equivalent of Donald Trump wagging his finger at Ghandi and suggesting that Ghandi lived a very narcissist, bombastic life as a circus clown who was only seeking attention.

Seriously.

[Empowerer]

101. No - you just seem to think that anyone who doesn't plaster Sanders gifs all over their posts and

wax rhapsodic at the very mention of Sanders' name is somehow your enemy.

That's certainly your prerogative.

[jeff47]

109. My suggestion for their next narrative

Sanders isn't serious about Climate Change because he exhales carbon dioxide.

[vi5]

82. The fact is the best any of us can hope for...

...is for someone to start from a leftward position and be inevitably pulled rightward by the broken system we have.

That means the last thing many of us want is someone starting from a center position only to be pulled even further rightward by that same broken system.

[LWolf]

83. Well, this is an interesting development.

We've faced the repeated launchings of "unelectable", "too white," "too male," "supporters are meanies," etc.; now we've got a new twist; since there's no denying that Sanders' chances without extreme prejudice, let's try to diminish the enthusiasm that will carry him past HRC by predicting the future with a broken crystal ball.

This path, too, is going to fail.

[Logical]

84. Lol, a new attempt from hillary fans to change our minds! nt

[bullwinkle428]

93. Sounds like the goalposts are already being moved -

go back a month or two, and it was all "Bernie doesn't have a snowball's chance on the sun of EVER getting the nomination!"

[Motown_Johnny]

94. As long as they are implementing his policies, so be it.

If Hillary wins, she will have people I respect even less (despise is the wrong word) and they will be implementing her policies, which would be much worse.

[Logical]

95. Research this posters hillary posts, totally a hillary supporter. Nice try! nt

[JRLeft]

110. It was obvious the op was from the status quo is inevitable post.

[merrily]

105. Thank you for your concern. LOL!

[Empowerer]

120. You're welcome

[Robbins]

106. Bernie will probally appoint some who supported clinton over him

but i doudt very much he appoints tons of wall street people.truth is he is likely to appoint some pro-union people since in carrer
unions are biggest group who have no donated money.not wall street.

[Logical]

115. Glad most saw this post for what it was, a backass way to attack bernie. Nt

[Empowerer]

116. How do you read my OP as an attack on Sanders, "backass" or otherwise? n/t

[99Forever]

117. Please list the people President Sanders will ...

...."surround himself with that I won't like," since you must have a crystal ball as to know that already.

Pretty fucking amazing, you are. Into the future, I wish I could see.

[Bluenorthwest]

119. What are you basing your many prognostications upon? Tea leaves? Tarot Cards?

Personally I take a look at who Bernie 'surrounded himself with' when he first entered the House of Representatives as foundation for what choices he might make. Very shortly after entering the House, Bernie built alliances with Maxine Waters, Ron Dellums, Lane Evans, Thomas Andrews, and my own Rep Peter DeFazio and together they founded the Progressive Caucus, which elected Bernie as their first Chairman. Bernie, Maxine and Peter have all three seen the Caucus grow into what it is today, the largest Democratic Caucus in the US Congress.

Now I got no Runes to toss and I'd never presume to know how you feel about the Representatives Bernie 'surrounded himself' with in the House, but from my perspective he and they all made excellent choices in that alliance, Bernie did not seek out the power and the ladder, he sought out the like minded and the dedicated.

[Empowerer]

121. There's a big difference between creating "alliances" as a Senator and populating

a branch of government as President of the United States. and since I doubt that he's going to appoint most of the people you list to work in his Administration, and even if he does, he'll still have another few thosand posts to fill, my point still stands.

[Bluenorthwest]

122. That is not responsive to my questions, it's just more of you saying things you believe based

on, apparently nothing at all because you were asked and you just talked down to me about my own support for my point of view without even bothering to state your own reasons as you had been asked to do.
What was your point? The one that still stands? What you presented is your own negative framing and pure opinion. You made no actual point that I can see, other than you think what others know and what Bernie will do and how others will react to that. What you think, that's just what you think, not a point but an opinion. Some people have some very nasty opinions which are not based on any reasoned set of facts. It's just gossip and presumption.

Lacking in depth, lacking in foundation, a house built on sand.

[DemocraticWing]

123. The belief that the rich and powerful have the "keenest minds" is America's problem

[BlueCaliDem]

126. Excellent advice that falls on deaf ears with his loudest supporters.

[Empowerer]

135. I didn't kiss Sanders' ring or arse, so my OP was, by definition, an attack on him

[BlueCaliDem]

139. Sad but true.

They can't handle the truth!

[Goblinmonger]

127. Your concern is duly noted.

[HassleCat]

128. But there will not be as many

I am absolutely certain a Sanders administration would contain more people I like than a Clinton administration. I am not going to get all excited about the false dichotomy of 100 percent pure vs. 100 percent dirty. Neither Sanders nor Clinton would give us 100 percent anything.

[Tien1985]

129. "Vote for my candidate..."

"because yours will also be crappy." is not particularly effective at changing minds. Good luck with that tactic.

[Le Taz Hot]

130. Complete and utter bullshit.

Unlike the establishment candidates, Bernie will walk the walk like he has for 40 years. But kudos for a brand new meme. Haven't heard this particular spin yet.

[PatrickforO]

133. Sure he is. But methinks thy 'friendly advice' has ye olde ulterior motive.

See, the culture of any organization, including a presidential administration, flows top down. If you have an amoral sociopath in there, like maybe Nixon, or Dick Cheney, then that's what you get downstream - the whole fucking thing goes rotten really fast.

But, you have a good moral person in the lead and you don't have that shit. Take Obama for instance. The right wing HATES him. I mean they HATE him. They have gone so far as to spend seven years deligitimizing him as president and even as a human being. For some of the hate-talk people, he isn't even human.

But he is. And he is a good and moral man. Have you noticed his administration has had NO scandals. Oh, I am disappointed in him taking single payer off the table back in 09 and am deeply disappointed at how he's touting the Transpacific Partnership because it is a real corporate piece of shit. BUT, the Obama administration has gotten lots of good things done and has had NO scandals.

Think about that for a minute in light of Bernie. He had a couple of data guys who went where they shouldn't have. He didn't try and cover up. He fired them and moved on. Because he's not corrupt. He's not dishonest. And he's a moral man. You can tell a tree by its fruit - with Bernie we have a guy who flies coach, wears rumpled, off-the-rack suits and has a net worth of $330K. He hasn't enriched himself when he went to Congress as so many of them have. And he's got a 40 year track record of fighting for issues that we care about.

What does Clinton have? Her husband's 'free trade' legacy, and her own advocacy in the form of helping develop the TPP under the guise of 'economic statecraft.' We have 'welfare reform' which disproportionately affected people of color. We have justice system 'reform' which put hundreds of thousands of minorities in prison and began militarizing the police. Now, we have her email scandal, and the very real appearance of impropriety around the 'pay to play' allegations that she ok'd weapons deals for countries that donated to the Clinton foundation. And we have a candidate who is so obviously a false weathervane that she seems to refuse having her own positions on issues - instead she waits to formulate a 'push your face through mush' response until all the focus group and polling data has come in. And now she's lying about single payer saying it will 'end Medicare.' This is a lie because Medicare will be subsumed into a single payer system - anyone knows that. Lastly, Wall Street has said that it would be 'comfortable' with a Clinton administration.

That last one...WHY should we want Wall Street to be 'comfortable?' Those bastards ruined millions of Americans' lives with their malfeasance and they don't give a shit.

Sorry, but I want single payer, and I'm not backing down this time.

[aikoaiko]

136. Right, because the folks who don't support Bernie have been so right about Bernie up to now.

[Mnpaul]

138. So now they have moved on to worrying about Sander's appointments

They must be coming to the realization of a loss to Bernie. That's good to see.

[TeamPooka]

141. no names? just "people"? Ooooo. Bad attempt at fearmongering. nt