Swiftboating Bernie. How it works. Why Hillary is going there

[cali]

“We were very surprised today to see that Bernie Sanders had launched a negative television advertisement against Hillary,” said Robby Mook, Clinton’s campaign manager, in a conference call with reporters Thursday. “We were particularly surprised because he had personally pledged and his campaign had pledged to never run a negative advertisement.”
The ad in question does not name Hillary personally, and talks in generalities about choices in approaching Wall Street.

<snip>

Hillary is using the classic Karl Rove technique of attacking an opponent on their biggest strengths.
A prime example of the “Rovian” strategy was the Bush campaign’s attacking the much decorated war hero John Kerry as a dishonorable vet whom other vets disdained. Bush himself avoided service in Vietnam with his cushy Air National Guard gig in the so-called “Champagne Squadron” for rich Texas kids, and even then he was AWOL for a year. Kerry was also a child of privilege but went to Vietnam anyway. That should have been a big difference between the two candidates, but by mounting that successful "swift boat" attack, Rove managed to take that whole subject of military service off the table.

Now Hillary is trying to take on the thing that most differentiates the two candidates: INTEGRITY.
If she can take the whole discussion of integrity, honesty and fair play off the table, then she will have greatly hurt Bernie.
Of course, this is not the first Rovian broadside that Hillary has delivered. It started almost immediately, right after the first debate, when Hillary attacked Bernie for, of all things, being RACIST. Bernie, who literally marched with MLK, who was arrested for protesting segregation, who supported and helped Jesse Jackson win Vermont in his Presidential bid, was now just a run-of-the-mill racist:

<snip>

This week saw another Karl Rove masterpiece: Hilary is attacking Bernie on one of his core principles and one of his most passionate aims: single payer health care as a right. Hillary wants to keep allowing private insurance companies to make a profit on sick Americans. Bernie wants to make it an entitlement. And that basic philosophical difference is resonating with voters — so, taking another page out of Karl Rove’s playbook, Hillary is literally trying to scare voters about Bernie’s plan:

"His plan would take Medicare and Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program and the Affordable Care Act health care insurance and private employer health insurance and he would take that all together and send health insurance to the states, turning over your and my health insurance to governors," Clinton said. "We had enough of a fight to get to the Affordable Care Act. So I don’t want to rip it up and start over."

​This is really starting to get bizarre. But apparently the Clinton camp will adhere to the Rove strategy to the bitter end.
The latest barrage, namely attacking Bernie’s integrity, is the final straw. Bernie has always maintained that he has never run a negative ad, and that has been a hallmark of his campaign and a cornerstone of his reputation among the voters. To attack Bernie’s integrity and his honesty (“he is not levelling with the American people”) is to attack the very foundation of the Bernie Brand.

<snip>
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/15/1465670/-Hillary-Goes-Full-On-Rovian

[CoffeeCat]

1. Clinton tried this in Iowa in 2008--and she came in third

in the iowa caucuses.

She tends to lose all sense of judgment, tact and decency when her opponent surges. She becomes a whirling dervish of campaign buffoonery.

I saw this all play out in 2008. This is not going to go well for her.

Iowans can't stand this kind of politicking. We take seriously our caucuses. Watching someone attack and throw the kitchen sink, like a crazy person--is off putting. And it's a waste of our time.

[earthside]

2. 2008 all over again.

In the end, in 2008, what defeated Hillary Clinton was that in comparison to Barack Obama, she was just a political hack.

Sanders is not Barack Obama, but he is the change candidate, he is the inspirational candidate, he is the bold ideas candidate -- and again Hillary seems determined to portray herself as a win-at-all-costs political hack.

I'm more convinced than ever (after watching most of last night's GOP demolition derby) that Mrs. Clinton will lose a general election battle against Donald Trump.

Democrats best chance is to run integrity, plain spokenness, big ideas, and substantive change against the Repuglicans this year. That means nominate Sen. Sanders and not just another political hack.

[Fawke Em]

23. Bernie isn't Barack, but Hillary is still Hillary. eom

[Volaris]

31. THIS.

If I were her, I would offer up the biggest damn MeaCulpa in history--

I will never apologize for being really good at the Game.
But if it's time to change the Rules, nobody knows better than I do how best to do that, because I KNOW what will be done in an attempt to rig those Rules not in YOUR favor. All I want is the chance to be as good at the New Game as I was at the Old Game (and be that good on YOUR behalf) because I'm smart enough and mean enough to get it done.


Bernies lead would be gone in a weekend.
But she wont, she CANT. she's too beholden to the Old Rules. She's chained herself to a dying system.

Someone else here posted that she is running the last 20th century campaign. I think that's a very correct statement.

[Nyan]

27. I thought so, too.

Trump had a great momemt there. It was a glimpse into how he could pull off a win in GE.
It has to be Bernie. Otherwise, Trump has a real chance against Hillary.

[HereSince1628]

52. Hillary tends to overact when in this mode... maybe she hasn't learned anything

from 2008.

Watch for the revenant and the return of the ghost of campaigns past.

[bigtree]

3. bull. She hasn't 'swiftboated' Sanders

...I'm constantly amazed by the victimization some Sanders supporters express here.

Handwringing and tears make weak sauce for a revolution.

[cali]

4. That's precisely what she is doing.

[emulatorloo]

6. "John Kerry as a dishonorable vet whom other vets disdained."

No, Cali, the article is extremely dishonest hyperbole.

Yes, Clinton campaign has lit its hair on fire and is making stupid moves that are backfiring.

They are misrepresenting Sanders' policy positions.

That's not anything at all like the vile character attacks made on Kerry.

I'm sorry, the article is bullshit.

[Goblinmonger]

8. "Bernie Sanders wants to dismantle Medicare"

and "strip millions and millions and millions of people of their health insurance."

Explain the difference between the two.

[emulatorloo]

9. That is a misrepresentation of policy as I said before.

It is totally different from saying John Kerry shot himself in the foot so he could steal a Purple Heart medal.

If you can't distinguish between the statements I can't help you.

Bernie is going to win. He does not need bullshit hyperbolic articles to do so.

[Goblinmonger]

10. It is a flat out lie to prey on the fears of people

and beat the taxes drum. That is far more than "a misrepresentation of policy." Clinton should be ashamed of herself. Both of them. Chelsea has a master's in public health; she knows better.

[emulatorloo]

13. Agreed, it is a lie about his policy. Happily, It is backfiring on Clinton campaign.

However to claim it is the same as Swiftboaters questioning/lying about Kerry's military service and calling him a coward is a false equivalency.

Do what ever you want, I just pray you aren't leading with this kinda of hyperbole when you knock doors for Bernie. i doubt this is an effective tactic for Undecideds and persuadable HRC supporters

Take care of yourself and have a nice day!

[99th_Monkey]

19. I agree w/Goblinmonger, mostly. The difference, if there is one, is a hair's-width. nt

[Enthusiast]

70. I see it as swiftboating. nt

[1monster]

22. Tse swiftboat campaign was an attack on Kerry's integrity. The attacks on

Bernie saying that he is running negative ads when he says he has never and will not run negative ads is an attack on Bernie's integrity.

While Clinton's efforts thus far are no where near as egregious as the attacks on Kerry, they are the same type of attack. They only vary in degree.

[Armstead]

49. The degree differs, but the article is about a strategy

Hillary hasn't (yet) called Bernie a deserter or coward, but she is still using the same Rovian tactics of using his strengths against him, and trying to defuse her own flaws.

It is totally mislading to say that Sanders wants to remover public health coverage when that is the exact opposite of what he wants to do.

[Vincardog]

46. No, that's precisely what she is ..TRYING.. to do. She is not very good at it and it backfires.

[Scootaloo]

7. She is, actually. She's attacking him on his merits.

[Marty McGraw]

44. Like

the gold and champagne squadron hits on ours here as well

[pangaia]

15. It is exactly what she is doing.

There is no victimization going on here. There are no &quot h)andwringing and tears."
Get a grip.

It is pure unadulterated fact.

It is what the Clintons, and so many other arrogant, self-centered, egotistical frightened politicians do.

[Fawke Em]

24. Yes, actually, she is.

The very definition, as stated in the OP of Swiftboating is to take your opponent's strengths and make them weaknesses.

Camp Weathervane is alleging that the rather mild comparison ad that the Bernie campaign ran regarding two visions of Wall Street funding within the Democratic Party - THAT DIDN'T EVEN MENTIONING HER NAME - is an attack ad, something Bernie has never done and still has not done.

His strength is his integrity on this matter, so the Weathervanes are attempting to spin it into a negative, i.e. Swiftboating.

The second reason for doing this is that I'm sure they plan a vicious attack ad and want to make it seem like Bernie started it, which isn't the truth. Even right-leaning pundits could see through that mountain of bullshit and laughed at the assertion that it was an attack ad.

[magical thyme]

32. swiftboating is attacking unfairly or with lies

Yes, it started with Rove's attack on Kerry's service -- hence the name swiftboating. But what it's really known for is a attack on an opponent's perceived strength with a blatant lie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating

Swiftboating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating
Wikipedia
The term swiftboating (also spelled swift-boating or swift boating) is an American neologism used pejoratively to describe an unfair or untrue political attack.

Calling out the Clinton's lies is not whining, nor is it playing victim. It's what Kerry should have done back in '04.

[John Poet]

55. +1000 ^That!^

"Calling out the Clinton's lies is not whining, nor is it playing victim. It's what Kerry should have done back in '04."

[Enthusiast]

69. She is swiftboating Bernie. That is precisely what she is doing. nt

[Doctor_J]

5. It does however reinforce the Clinton brand

as a Machiavellian liar, flip-flopper, and corporatist

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Good luck with that. She can't Swftboat the most Trustworthy, Honest, Authentic and ETHICAL

Politician in Washington DC. NOT HAPPENING.

She'll just come out looking desperate, like she is.

People KNOW Bernie. They know he's not a liar, like she is. They KNOW he's not untrustworthy, like she is, they KNOW he's not a fake, like she is and they KNOW he's not unethical, like she is.

Good luck with that, hills.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Skidmore]

12. I gather Sanders policy proposals are never to be

questioned? Is that the case? That a discussion of his policies and the "issues" are off the table because they are attacks? Is that how it works now? Has the ground shifted beneath our feet yet again? The goal post moved further away?

You can't insist that the campaign be run on the issues and then reject a discussion of the issues as a ploy. Healthcare policy affects every person in this nation and Hillary had a legitimate point. States' rights is the mantra of libertarians and Sanders himself has stated that he is going after Republican voters. We have seen how the states' rights tack has been used to weaken ACA.

[pangaia]

16. Uh,, Clinton is not 'discussing the issues here." She is LYING !!!

It IS what she DOES.

[Skidmore]

18. She is not.

She is pointing to part of his record and policy proposals which he needs to explain further. I appreciate that questioning. So sorry your candidate cannot tolerate scrutiny of any sort.

[Fawke Em]

26. It's your candidate who can't stand the scrutiny.

Clinton is lying.

Sanders plan is already legislation. It doesn't take any more than Google to find it: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/1782/text

Having served in the Senate, you'd think Hillary would know that. So either she was an incompetent former senator who doesn't know how to look up legislation or she's lying.

Given I've never been a senator and I could find this legislation, I'm going to eschew the "incompetent former senator" data point and go with "lying."

[demwing]

45. "Bernie Sanders had launched a negative television advertisement against Hillary"

That's a lie.

You want to defend that lie? Fine, own it. Embrace the lie.

[Vincardog]

47. Bernie welcomes scrutiny. What part of his healthcare plan are unclear on?

[John Poet]

56. Before this I didn't believe that,

but now I've seen the proof-- up close and kinda personal.

[pangaia]

59. Welcome to the side of light. :>))

[Armstead]

54. They can be questioned. But they ought to be questioned HONESTLY

An honest challenge would be things like: "An expansion of Medicare type coverage to cover everyone with a "single payer" system is not politically realistic because people would not support it." or even "Private insurance provides better coverage than a single payer system because...."

That's not what Clinton is saying. She is saying "Bernie wants to get rid of the coverage provided by CHP, Medicaid and all other federal public programs and send it all to the evil states."

She is also tal;kling out of both sides of her mouth by also using Harry and Louise and GOP scare tactics by saying "Bernie wants to raise your taxes to cover his expensive healthcare program." She also conveniently forgets that a mandate requiring people to buy private health insurance (at rates determined by insurers) is the equivalent of a tax.

[Cassiopeia]

14. If that was a negative ad

Then I imagine HRH campaign would think a pillow fight is the equivalent of nuclear war.

FFS you're running for potus, did you not think your opponent would compare their ideas to yours? Do you think your cries today about the mean Bernie sanders and his horrible ad are going to gain traction with the voters?

HRH fake in everything she says and does.

[magical thyme]

33. ^^^ this, exactly.

How is it a negative ad to say that there are 2 basic approaches to reigning in Wall Street: regulation vs breaking up the TBTF?

Sorry if Hillary is so ashamed of her biggest donors that she considers them a liability. Not Bernie's fault.

[Lordquinton]

37. "Then I imagine HRH campaign would think a pillow fight is the equivalent of nuclear war."

Hillary wants a Pillow Fight with Iran!

[George II]

17. I don't see any comparison between what Clinton has been doing in her campaign and...

....the "swiftboating" of 2004.

People like to throw that term out in an attempt to link "someone" (in this case Clinton) with what the republicans did 12 years ago.

Unfortunately it's an old smear that rarely ever works.

So, in what way is how Clinton is campaigning similar to "swiftboating"?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

20. You asked: So, in what way is how Clinton is campaigning similar to "swiftboating"?

I've got this one:

It's similar in that she's LYING about another candidate in order to DECEIVE Democratic voters and FALSELY DAMAGE the reputation of a good man.

[JohnnyRingo]

28. That's not the technical definition of "swift boating".

Swift boating, as it was used against Kerry, was attacking him on his campaign's strong suit. In that case, Kerry was comparing his active military service to Bush's time in the Texas Nat Guard, so Rove decided to minimize his advantage though outright lies about how he received his decorations.

In the case here against Sanders, Clinton is going after Bernie's strong suit of domestic policy, so that much is true, but whether his plans to completely overhaul health care can be implemented in today's deeply divided government is indeed debatable. She's not saying he's a liar, but perhaps over promising what is possible, something pols have done since the days of a "chicken in every pot".

[DisgustipatedinCA]

29. There's no "technical definition" of swiftboating. It's something that happened in 2004.

I answered a question about how this was similar to swiftboating. I did. It stands.

[stevenleser]

67. Correct, well said. Nt

[George II]

36. That doesn't really answer the question - HOW is she "lying" in order to deceive...etc.?

That is a matter of opinion. I don't see anything about "lying" at all.

You've popped in and made a claim about Hillary Clinton that you can't specifically address.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

39. We've been specifically talking for 2 days about how she is lying. Where have you been?

We do no lack specificity, and your claim is without merit.

[George II]

40. This thread was started about 3 hours ago, not two days ago.

This isn't a court of law ("your claim is without merit&quot

The way I look at lack of specificity is that the claim is false.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

41. I do believe I already told you we have lots of specific examples of Clinton's lies

That's not up for debate, and your opinion on the matter doesn't have the tendency to sway anything. The gate is open, and Hillary Clinton will pay the consequence for lying about our candidate. Do your level best to stop us--it will not matter.

[George II]

42. You hinted at it here, but this thread doesn't have any, nor does the OP.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

43. Search for "Clinton liar" on DU and you'll see about 93 threads.

I'm not wasting my time with someone invested in not understanding.

[leftofcool]

63. Oh, did someone say something negative about Mr Pie in the Sky?

[JohnnyRingo]

48. You're right.

You'll get a lot of heat because many here take disagreements with Sander personally.

Pointing out that Sanders' health care proposals may not be practical isn't calling him a liar, it's a difference of opinion at worst and a call for clarification at best. The article at hand is strongly biased toward the candidate by claiming that Bernie's "strong suit" is his integrity and Hillary is attacking that. His "strong suit" is domestic policy, and she's questioning the facts & figures of his platform. She doesn't even imply that he a liar or say she doesn't believe he can accomplish what he says.

I agree that without a magic wand Bernie would be hard pressed to pass any of his grand proposals in a deeply divided congress hell bent on denying a democratic president anything beyond his choice of lunch menu.

[Armstead]

57. She is maligning his integrity AND LYing about his plans at the same time

No problem with criticizing or disagreeing with Sanders proposals based on the truth, as long as it's honest and not filled with Rovian lies and scare tactics.


Clinton (and her mini-me Chelsea) have been totally distorting Sanders plans and goals.They are saying he wants to end the coverage provided by Medicaid, CHP and other programs. They are also claiming that he wants to throw all healthcare coverage to the states.

Both are patently wrong.

She is also using GOP scare tactics by saying he wants to raise taxes.

She is also conviently omitting the fact that the ACA requirement that people buy private insurance coverage is a defacto tax,.

[azmom]

21. Hillary's integrity is non existent.

Bernie is far from perfect, but next to Hillary he is a beacon of truth and honesty.

[AlbertCat]

38. Bernie is far from perfect, but next to Hillary he is a beacon of truth and honesty.

Indeed.

I'm sue Sanders is not perfect. I'm sure there are some points we would disagree on. I'm sure he's done things he probably wishes he had not done or done differently. He is, after all, a human.

But I don't vote on a single issue and I don't demand my candidate be perfect. What I like is the lack of theatre and slogans. Sanders seem TRULY concerned with getting things on a different track. I'm sure his ideas will be harder to implement than he thinks.... but at least we're going there! At least we're not just throwing our hands up and saying it can't be done.

[JohnnyRingo]

25. That's fine, but Bernie's strong suit isn't his integrity...

...It's domestic policy. If Sanders ran primarily on immigration or his foreign policy cred, he wouldn't have a campaign.

It's true that the Clinton campaign is going after him on it by saying he's over promising what is possible in today's starkly divided government, but saying one is a liar and the other as pure as driven snow reflects a deeply partisan view.

The underlying theme of this article is the misleading equivalent of a Clinton supporter saying Bernie is attacking her for being a woman.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

30. His strong suit IS his integrity. Ask any of his supporters.

[JohnnyRingo]

50. Clinton isn't attacking his integrity.

She's questioning the facts and figures of his domestic platform, as are many others who recognize a deeply divided congress intent on denying a democratic president any victories after inauguration day. No one has said he's a liar.

It seems Sanders plans on sweeping changes literally without compromise, something deigned to fail by constitutional design. Remember that Obamacare began as Medicare for all, but became the final ACA to gain the support of even his own party. Somehow Bernie plans to get around that but hasn't said how.

Integrity isn't a political policy, it's an attribute. Domestic policy is absolutely Sanders' strong suit, as evidenced by his speeches that solely focus on economy and health care.

[Armstead]

60. You have not been listening to him then

1)He has said from day one that he can't do anything alone. His election would only be a step in a much larger process that requires people to actively work towards and support the necessary political steps to implement these changes. He call it a "revolution" but it might better described as a collective wake up call.

2) He has said that universal single payer is a goal. He can not do it overnight, and it is something to work towards.

[dreamnightwind]

65. Really? "Remember that Obamacare began as Medicare for all"

The only person I remember advocating for Medicare for all during the early Obama years is Bernie Sanders.

Some of the people behind Obama were joined at the hip with the health insurance industry (Baucus, Daschle, to name a couple, plenty of others, no doubt). I don't remember Obama EVER working for Medicare for all, in fact the people who showed up at the meetings on healthcare reform who advocated for it were removed and arrested.

The compromises made were to have no public option, and to mandate purchase of the private product. Medicare for all was not compromised from, it was never what they were trying to do.

[magical thyme]

34. when repubs say they don't agree with him, but they respect him enough in some cases to vote for him

versus their own clown car, they cite his integrity, not his domestic policy.

Same with Independents.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. Exactly right. Attacking an opponent on his strength is the essence of swiftboating.

An analagous attack by Bernie would be, for instance, claiming that Hillary's general agreement with "safe, legal and rare" means she's anti-choice.

[riversedge]

51. "swiftboating" whow. that is beyond the pale.

[randys1]

53. I am starting to sincerely worry that if Hillary is the nominee, many MANY

of these Bernie supporters will NOT be supporting her.

Not just here at DU, but I am feeling this all over the country.

Real sad.

[John Poet]

58. If this is how Hillary is going to run her campaign,

it'll be hard to 'get over it' should she be nominated.

However, if this is how she's going to run,
maybe we won't have to worry about that little problem after all.

[randys1]

62. Hard to get over it, eh. GOP will kill Women, destroy the environment, stop minorities

from voting.

Not hard for me

[Armstead]

61. No I am pretty confident most will reluctantly support her in the GE because....

The GOP is so truly awful, most find that intolerable.

But many sure as shit won't feel good about it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. I'm sure Bernie has larger Swiftboats that will sink Hillary's

[cali]

71. Bernie will simply never do that.

[dreamnightwind]

66. Thanks, absolutely true and it needs to be said often

Maybe Rove gets too much credit for what was David Brock's work all along. Correct The Record.

[Enthusiast]

68. Hillary is just what I thought she was. nt