If he promised you the moon and the stars would you believe him?

[JohnnyRingo]

With apologies to younger DU members, that line comes from a 1984 song from The Alan Parsons Project called "Vulture Culture" on the album by the same name. Many more will recall that Dr Evil used the band's name as his secret plan in the first Austin Powers movie.

The plan was vague in substance but specific in it's goal much in the same way Bernie Sanders plans to pass sweeping changes when elected. Sanders is no Dr Evil, and there's certainly not a nefarious bone in his body, but he offers little more than a general threat of mass destruction to big banks, Wall Street, and insurance companies.

His grand plan involves breaking up big banks without a word about how that can be achieved by a mere president and little congressional cooperation. He'll eliminate health care insurance companies with a swipe of his pen and ignore the powerful lobbies that write campaign checks for both parties. He'll bring the corporate fat cats on Wall Street to their knees because... well just because he somehow can.

What he and his supporters aren't telling us is how he can accomplish any of the above without the aid of a deeply divided congress intent on denying any democratic president power beyond choosing his own lunch menu. Perhaps it would be more credible if he said he wants to try to move the country in that direction over time instead of claiming he can do it all by employing sharks with freaking laser beams.

[Ferd Berfel]

1. OBAMA? BILL?

Who are we talking about here?

[anigbrowl]

7. Have you tried reading the OP?

I find that reading posts helps me understand what the poster is saying. Amazing, isn't it?

[Warren DeMontague]

13. you mean the one that tries to make a point about lyrics to a song using the wrong song?

Yes, it's deep. I mean, the connections, the implications.

He should have taken it further. You know, Austin Powers stars Mike Myers, who (coincidentally? I think NOT) shares a name with the psychopathic killer of the Halloween movies.

Obviously, this means that if Bernie Sanders is elected he will begin creeping around Jamie Lee Curtis's house in a sheet.

[beam me up scottie]

35. LMAO!

I KNEW IT!

Wait, where do the sharks and laser beams fit in?

[Glamrock]

55. Austin Powers baby

[beam me up scottie]

56. .

[Fawke Em]

53. Games people play.

[Ferd Berfel]

16. Yea I did, but I thought we are talking about promising you the moon and the stars

and then going Corporate and selling us out. Huh.

After decades in Washington , I think Bernie has a better chance to get there

[anigbrowl]

18. This is why I don't rely on politicians for emotional fulfillment

I have family members, friends, and animals for that. Running the country is a job, not an adventure.

[randys1]

2. Ringo is better than many give him credit for.

oh wait

[Warren DeMontague]

3. And Hillary Clinton wants a manhattan project so the Eye In The Sky can decrpyt everyones iphones.

By the way, the song you're referencing with that line is called "Games People Play", and it's on the album "Turn of a Friendly Card"

Ironic.

[arcane1]

9. I wonder where I'm getting Little River Band from. The vocals, perhaps?

I think of Parsons as these lower pitched, sleepy vocals

[Warren DeMontague]

10. No, I totally see where you could make that mistake.

they had kind of a similar sound at around the same time.

Alan Parsons came to my attention originally because he was the sound engineer on Dark Side of the Moon, which is kind of like being the head architect on the Taj Mahal, to my mind.

[BlueJazz]

4. All I can say: He's at least going to try. Nobody else will.

[treestar]

14. Trying involves having a Congress

What good is it to try, then fail when Congress won't do anything? OK, at least he tried, but we still don't have the progress.

[virtualobserver]

31. Electing a Democratic Congress is part of the plan

[floriduck]

36. Ask Mr Obama how he's done it. nm

[arcane1]

54. Which progressive policies will Hillary get through congress that Bernie can't?

Assuming that public support and pressure are equal for both, what specific progressive things will Hillary get through congress that Bernie can't?

[Warren DeMontague]

68. Maybe Debbie Wasserman Schultz's stricter prison mandatory minimums for pot smokers?

Actually, even the GOP doesnt seem to be as enthusiastic for throwing people in prison over a joint, as she is.

[John Poet]

17. +1000 !!!

We don't necessarily believe he can do all of it,
and we don't HAVE to believe that,
to support him making the effort.

It's about time that somebody TRIED.

[Phlem]

42. Trying? That's just too fantastical!

Are we so jaded that we assume not being bought and payed for as a politician, then making an effort to truly fix a rigged system just can't be a real thing?

I think so.

Someone more concerned about governing and who is willing to fix corruption? Putting American's ahead of corporations?

He's also expecting our support because his pink flying unicorn choked on his magic wand and died last week.

That mentality is passed it's due date.

Jeebus!

[Kall]

5. Clinton 2016: Never Try, Ever

[arcane1]

6. I thought it was from "Games People Play" by the Little River Band?

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Yes, and no. Yes it's 'Games People Play', but it's still the Alan Parsons Project.

You've got the era right, though. I remember the Little River Band.

[arcane1]

19. I love a lot of the music from that era. "The story is told of the power of gold..."

"and its lure on the unsuspecting"

[bvf]

11. Seen this show before.

This is the first one to include all the stupid Austin Powers allusions, so you officially score in the negative numbers here.

You're just wasting everybody's time with regurgitated, cretinous nonsense.

[winter is coming]

15. "achieved by a mere president and little congressional cooperation"

He's not making the claim he can do it all by himself. He's been very realistic that it will take a revolution to accomplish this, and that it won't be easy. I don't know if we'll manage it or not, but making the attempt seems like a far better approach to me that throwing up my hands and saying its hopeless.

[litlbilly]

20. What's the alternative? Another corporatist so things just get worse? Not a fucking chance, Ill

take the honest guy and help him with his policies. that's how its gonna get done, with almost the entire country behind him. That's another reason people are flocking to Bernie, he needs their help to get it done and they like that idea...

[loyalsister]

41. Exactly

"Look Out Any Window" by Bruce Hornsby described what's going on around us right now in 1988.....

There's a man working on a boat
Pulling lines from the water
Just trying to stay afloat, ohh
Filling the nets is getting harder

Far away, they bend
The rules so secretly
Close their eyes and
Let it all out into the sea
Hoping nobody else would see

Look out any window
Look out any open door
Look out any window
To see what's going on
In the air around you

Far away, too many leaders
Let them get their way
Close their eyes and
Let it all out into the bay
Say they'll clear it up another day

It would have saved us a lot of trouble if I and my fellow gen Xers had been paying more attention and thinking long term. It was visible but we didn't look.

Thankfully, millenials are aware. And we can thank Al Gore for that greater awareness via the internet and his environmental activism. What a missed opportunity 2000 was!!

[Mass]

21. At least, he would try. This is better than most.

I do not know if he can succeed on all of his promises, but it is still better than accepting the preexisting order and saying that we will improve a little bit a situation that is deeply unfair.

[livetohike]

22. K&R

[The Wielding Truth]

23. You really don't know the man. His plans have been studied and worked on for decades.

If you would take some serious time reviewing his plans you would see a very good framework for accomplishing a renewal of fairness and stability to our country and the world.

He is not a magician, but with the step of putting him on top we will move us in the right direction. He never said it would be easy and he asked for our support. If you and I and the hundreds of millions who are not the 1% follow his lead this will happen. It will be a political revolution and we will see a better future. If we put more self centered egotists in power we will probably not see democracy survive with out a physically brutal revolution. I for one do not want our future ripped apart by idiots who have " God on their side"

Do you?

Get out of your impossible pessimism and understand that we need a radical change.

Hillary let us slide into madness under W's insane leadership and pushed us away from actual fair trade under Bill. I see her as the next possible redemption if Bernie's plans are not approached.

Actually we need Bernie. We need to correct the course of the ship that has been chopped shopped and sold for spare parts. Although Barack pulled us back from total collapse, we are still hanging on by threads. We need to give our hands and heart to his not so impossible changes. It will not happen easily for those in power will not give it up unless they see the angry crowds at their doors.

Let's be there at their doors.Bernie will keep us checked into the reality of the current Republican idiocracy and help us realize that it can be corrected. He has a vision and sometimes a vision can change the world.

[tazkcmo]

24. That sure is a lot of words to say

settle.

[Android3.14]

25. Could you correct your OP?

It's "Games People Play" from Turn of a Friendly Card.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Forget it, he's rolling.

[JohnnyRingo]

71. I would, but...

..then half the criticism here wouldn't make sense.

The error was wholly mine and Vulture Culture was one of my favorites. Unfortunately the lyrics fit in well with the song so I mistakenly thought that's where the line came from. Thank you for politely pointing out my mistake.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. Look this has to start as soon as possible

[hrmjustin]

27. DU Rec.

[guillaumeb]

30. Hi Justin

If you are still not feeling the Bern, let me send you a sun lamp. That will help.

Guillaume B

[hrmjustin]

32. Lol.

[IADEMO2004]

34. Did not expect humor oasis in this thread.

[guillaumeb]

28. Candidates for President lay out their vision for the country.

I do not take it as a promise of what will be done, or a guarantee of what can be done, but I see it as what the candidate sees for the future.

As far as that goes, is Guantanamo closed yet?
Are all the troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq?
Were any bankers prosecuted?

No to all three, but Obama was still clearly the best candidate.

[arcane1]

29. Name one progressive policy that Hillary can get through this very same congress.

There is bipartisan support for reinstating Glass/Steagall, for example. Bernie could get that done, but not Hillary.

Unless you can provide actual, concrete evidence that this "deeply divided congress" would somehow pass progressive legislation only if Hillary is president, then you're just talking out of your ass.

[HassleCat]

33. The same way Clinton would do it

Are you serious? Hillary Clinton will not see a single piece of legislation passed her first four years in office. Neither candidate is promising anything even close to realistic during the campaign. I'm not looking at anything that requires legislation. I'm looking at cabinet appointments, executive orders, etc. Stuff within the executive power of the president. The only relationship either President Clinton or President Sanders will have with Congress is vetoing repeal of Obamacare once a week.

[Oilwellian]

37. It's time for some honest dialogue in this country

Bernie probably won't succeed at implementing all that he wants, no president ever has. But at least the conversation will be honest and heading in the right direction rather than more of the status quo. I also have every confidence he will appoint people in cabinet positions who will be far more diligent in their oversight responsibilities. America needs a wake up call and Bernie is the right person to do that.

[CharlotteVale]

39. ^^THIS^^

[azmom]

57. [phone]

[darkangel218]

38. Unrec.n/t

[Thinkingabout]

40. It is oblivious Clinton has friends in Congress, she has many endorsements already.

Do I believe she will accomplish her agenda, not the entire agenda. Her passion to close the loopholes in background checks, substance abuse treatments, attention for research on Alzheimer's, and wage inequality are some good starting poi ts, there are more.

[litlbilly]

43. She is still a corporatist and everything she does will be what they want. No way around that.

[Thinkingabout]

44. Sanders is also a corporatist, guess if it is good enough for Sanders it is

Also good enough for Clinton. He listens to the lobbyists also.

[litlbilly]

45. Sorry, you are wrong. Name one corporation funding Bernie Sanders. You cant because they dont

exist

[Thinkingabout]

47. Did I say anything about funding? I don't know for sure if he is

Funded directly from Lockheed Martin or if he is funded through their employees like many other companies handles donations. I know he votes to continue to fund the F-35 program, over a trillion to develop the F-35 and it is still being developed. We know he has listened to the NRA lobby on gun issues. We also know he meets with lobbyists, we can't call one a corporatist and not the other.

[litlbilly]

48. That is the direct meaning of "corporatist" campaign contibutions. Hillary gets most of her

money from them, Bernie does not, it's that simple.

[Thinkingabout]

51. Are you sure he doesn't get funds from their employees?

[litlbilly]

64. All small donations from people, not corporations.

[Thinkingabout]

67. Let's put it this way, Lockheed Martin has got funds over a trillion

To develop the F-35, that is not small funding, Sanders votes to continue funding Lockheed Martin for the F-35. If the Trillion had not gone to Lockheed Martin the food stamp program could have provided needed funds to feed little children.

[m-lekktor]

46. I don't accept this premise it's only realistic to support right wingers.

that's essentially what all you Hillary supporters are implying with these threads.

[Thinkingabout]

49. I am a Hillary supporter and I have not implied it is only

Realistic to support right wingers.

[MeNMyVolt]

50. They're all caught up this thing.

They will come to, eventually. Most SBS supporters are good Dems at heart.

[Fawke Em]

52. Is she's always wrong, would you believe her?

Because she has been. She's about HER, not YOU.

[ucrdem]

58. Well put. Sanders knows how to push emotional buttons but there's no there there.

[MeNMyVolt]

59. +1

[ucrdem]

62. Thanks!

[Bernin4U]

60. Fuck the cynical bullshit.

Bernie is going to win largely because Millenials choose not to have shit attitudes.

[Kalidurga]

61. If Bernie promised the moon and the stars I would believe him

It's about time we put more money into NASA and I bet he would do it.

[Autumn]

63. It's sharks with "frikin lasers attached to their heads".

But I digress, So tell me... Why should I waste my time voting? You have convinced me it's all pointless and this is as good as it gets. Obviously nothing can be done because congress is intent on denying any democratic president power beyond choosing his own lunch menu. Is Hillary going to do better? I don't see how with the scenario you have laid out. Or will that same congress intent on denying any democratic president power beyond choosing his own lunch menu suddenly decide that working with Hillary is their main goal in life?

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Here's a song for you, John.

Example is the checker to the key.

[Douglas Carpenter]

69. few if any progressives believe Bernie can accomplish all or perhaps even most of

the agenda during his first term or perhaps even two terms anymore than the European social-democrats accomplished their goals during the first 4 to 8 years they held power. Nor did Reagan achieve the Reagan agenda during his two terms.

I find it embarrassing that this has to be explained over and over again. The point is you cannot advance a progressive agenda even incrementally without a progressive agenda declared openly and clearly. Continually electing people who simply don't believe in a progressive agenda is NOT going to lead to a progressive society.

Bernie is not proposing anything for the banks and big corporations that Teddy Roosevelt did nor champion. He is not proposing much if anything in social benefits that other western democracies have had for more than a generation. We are just getting a late start. If we don't start down that path now, when can we?

[Fairgo]

70. Thank you for the patient and kind explanation

It is just that simple, but you might as well try to teach a sheep to knit...all wool, no aptitude.