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Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:48 PM

 

Dear Hillary: RED BAIT People Like Me and Lose My Vote In ANY Election








I will not stand by and let you use Socialists as a political target and give you my vote. Ever.

I wouldn’t do it for a candidate who uses anti-gay smears to get votes.

I wouldn’t do it for a candidate who uses racism to get votes—a major reason I couldn’t stand you in 2008.

You do not have permission to trade my dignity or the dignity of the left as currency to finance your ambition, devoid of conscience as it clearly is.

Should there be anyone in your camp, or any other, who wants to accuse me of helping to elect a Republican because I demand to be treated with respect as part of the coalition, please be advised: it is you and your set who believe that for every vote you lose on the left, you gain more than one on the right.

That is your calculation, not mine.

Loyalty and decency do not require me to serve as a willing target for an ambitious, amoral campaign. If that means ejection from what’s left of the coalition trying to elect a Democrat, please remember: i will already be gone.

I don’t care if you or your “centrists” are angry or dismissive. I don’t care about your career. I will not see my kind trashed by you and give you my vote.

Again, that is your calculation, Madame Secretary, not mine. I hope you’ll be happy with the results.

And yes, that is a portrait of Eugene V. Debs, a person with a level of integrity and care for working people you will never, ever understand, let alone achieve.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/01/20/1472562/-Dear-Hillary-Red-Bait-People-Like-Me-and-Lose-My-Vote-In-ANY-Election

142 replies, 9741 views

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Arrow 142 replies Author Time Post
Reply Dear Hillary: RED BAIT People Like Me and Lose My Vote In ANY Election (Original post)
Segami Jan 2016 OP
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #1
CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #37
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #41
Hortensis Jan 2016 #80
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #97
Hortensis Jan 2016 #110
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #112
Hortensis Jan 2016 #116
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #120
PatrynXX Jan 2016 #103
Hortensis Jan 2016 #117
Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #137
Hortensis Jan 2016 #141
robbob Jan 2016 #106
Hortensis Jan 2016 #118
arcane1 Jan 2016 #129
Hortensis Jan 2016 #142
840high Jan 2016 #59
lewebley3 Jan 2016 #94
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #99
geardaddy Jan 2016 #107
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #108
green917 Jan 2016 #115
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #121
geardaddy Jan 2016 #122
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #123
H2O Man Jan 2016 #111
Bohunk68 Jan 2016 #130
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #132
zazen Jan 2016 #109
dorkzilla Jan 2016 #119
kath Jan 2016 #2
roguevalley Jan 2016 #21
kath Jan 2016 #45
Metric System Jan 2016 #3
thereismore Jan 2016 #6
Metric System Jan 2016 #9
thereismore Jan 2016 #10
Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #87
pangaia Jan 2016 #23
CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #38
Armstead Jan 2016 #57
CoffeeCat Jan 2016 #104
hobbit709 Jan 2016 #8
Metric System Jan 2016 #12
hobbit709 Jan 2016 #13
pangaia Jan 2016 #30
PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #35
pangaia Jan 2016 #62
morningfog Jan 2016 #31
Segami Jan 2016 #15
pangaia Jan 2016 #29
CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #40
Melissa G Jan 2016 #44
senz Jan 2016 #63
DemocraticWing Jan 2016 #16
A Simple Game Jan 2016 #24
morningfog Jan 2016 #27
TBF Jan 2016 #138
thereismore Jan 2016 #4
pangaia Jan 2016 #33
thereismore Jan 2016 #36
Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #88
OilemFirchen Jan 2016 #5
Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #7
pa28 Jan 2016 #11
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #14
CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #17
SoapBox Jan 2016 #18
EndElectoral Jan 2016 #19
ValasHune Jan 2016 #20
FrostyAusty Jan 2016 #70
ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #22
99Forever Jan 2016 #25
WillyT Jan 2016 #26
Purveyor Jan 2016 #28
azmom Jan 2016 #32
John Poet Jan 2016 #34
Kalidurga Jan 2016 #39
ecstatic Jan 2016 #42
artislife Jan 2016 #47
ecstatic Jan 2016 #48
artislife Jan 2016 #50
redstateblues Jan 2016 #52
artislife Jan 2016 #55
redstateblues Jan 2016 #56
artislife Jan 2016 #60
blackspade Jan 2016 #75
Dawson Leery Jan 2016 #51
senz Jan 2016 #65
eridani Jan 2016 #67
blackspade Jan 2016 #74
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #79
Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #89
7wo7rees Jan 2016 #43
Autumn Jan 2016 #46
RoccoR5955 Jan 2016 #49
Babel_17 Jan 2016 #53
virgdem Jan 2016 #54
SMC22307 Jan 2016 #58
AOR Jan 2016 #61
blackspade Jan 2016 #77
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #64
tblue37 Jan 2016 #92
hobbit709 Jan 2016 #113
Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2016 #133
senz Jan 2016 #66
malthaussen Jan 2016 #68
in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #69
blackspade Jan 2016 #71
Helen Borg Jan 2016 #72
deutsey Jan 2016 #81
Helen Borg Jan 2016 #82
deutsey Jan 2016 #83
Gamecock Lefty Jan 2016 #73
blackspade Jan 2016 #76
AlbertCat Jan 2016 #96
oldandhappy Jan 2016 #78
raindaddy Jan 2016 #84
Tarc Jan 2016 #85
Lordquinton Jan 2016 #95
phleshdef Jan 2016 #86
Nitram Jan 2016 #90
Kermitt Gribble Jan 2016 #91
Jack Rabbit Jan 2016 #93
Utopian Leftist Jan 2016 #98
MadDAsHell Jan 2016 #100
saidsimplesimon Jan 2016 #101
HassleCat Jan 2016 #102
Faux pas Jan 2016 #105
Scruffy1 Jan 2016 #114
TBF Jan 2016 #139
TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #124
reACTIONary Jan 2016 #125
randys1 Jan 2016 #126
arcane1 Jan 2016 #127
Bohunk68 Jan 2016 #128
hopemountain Jan 2016 #131
mrsadm Jan 2016 #134
Odin2005 Jan 2016 #135
Bill USA Jan 2016 #136
Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #140

Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:55 PM

1. Ouch.

K & R!

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:33 PM

37. Way To Fucking Go! You Are Echoing the Sentiment of A HUGGGGEEE Number of People

which derived from this dirty crap just serves to demonstrate ... ONE MORE TIME... just how little character and integrity Mrs Clinton possesses in her own right. Entirely her doing with not another soul to blame...

I don't care about surrogates doing the dirty shit... THIS IS Madame' Secretary's campaign and which has been afforded EVERY MOTHER EFFING ADVANTAGE FROM WALL STREET CA$H TO A BOUGHT AND PAID FOR IN THE TANK CORPORATIST MEDIA...notwithstanding BULLSHIT ENDORSEMENTS BY THE LEADERSHIP OF MAJOR UNIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE IGNORED THE WISHES OF THEIR MEMBERSHIP e.g., As noted above.

Clinton Incorporated has it all and cannot even begin to win fair and square!

People are not listening to this crap, and we in fact fully expected this shit when the road got a little bit bumpy!

The fact is that the background and history associated with Bernie's major primary opponent (anointed front runner/inevitable nominee), is far more of a drag on her own campaign than anything that Bernie can say or do to detract from her candidacy.


Bernie offers a sincere and well thought out path of hope that his opponent's mealy mouth incrementalism coupled with syrupy lip service cannot and will not fly against. People are demanding... sincerity, truth and integrity this election associated with a drive for real palpable change...

Bernie Sanders offers that script while the Clinton Incorporated campaign cannot and never will.

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Response to CorporatistNation (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:43 PM

41. You don't need to convince me, I've been a Bernista since the early 80's.

I never dreamed that the senator from my home state would have such a huge following.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:20 AM

80. Liberals don't red bait. Conservatives do.

Hillary is a liberal, and by far most of her supporters are liberal and independents. VERY few conservatives.

P.S., the vast majority of us are also fine with and/or strongly support socialization of systems that work particularly well that way, like medicine.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #80)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:19 PM

97. Better inform your associates here.

They seem to be confused about which side of the aisle they're on.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #97)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:02 PM

110. No. My associates often say they would vote for both candidates.

A bunch of them say that right here on DU, and often.

Unfortunately, some others just seem to need opponents to vanquish far more than they want allies to pursue victory with -- even when that means their designated opponents are their natural allies who are pursuing the same goals.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #110)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:05 PM

112. What are you on about? What does that have to do with red baiting?

Anyone who red baits to smear a Dem candidate is no ally, imo.

There's another name for that kind of behaviour and it rhymes with bat trucking.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #112)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:27 PM

116. Liberals don't red bait. Conservatives do.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #116)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:35 PM

120. Since they red bait you just reclassified several of your associates here as conservatives.

I agree with you, ANYONE who red baits isn't a liberal.

Thanks for clearing that up!


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Response to Hortensis (Reply #80)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:47 PM

103. do'h.

yeah and I'm the Easter Bunny.

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Response to PatrynXX (Reply #103)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:30 PM

117. Hillary is a liberal and her supporters liberals and independents.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #117)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:00 PM

137. Hillary is not a liberal

She is an opportunist. She is a "liberal" to one group when the need arises, a "centrist" or "moderate" to another, a hardliner to yet another. She has been a corporatist since at least her early days in Arkansas as a corporate lawyer who worked against residential utility ratepayers in Little Rock, even going so far as to claim in court that giving residential utility customers a break on their rates would amount to "unconstitutional confiscation of property". She was best buds with Arkansas's richest Republicans in her later days as the state's first lady, and she got "Mr. Arkansas Republican", Jackson Stephens, to help fund her husband's 1992 presidential campaign.

As President Bill Clinton's wife, she supported some of her husband's really crappy legislation, including "the end of welfare as we know it", and repeal of Glass-Steagall. As Senator from New York, she championed the "vast right-wing conspiracy's" bogus case for war against Iraq. She has supported regime change in secular Middle-Eastern countries that has resulted in chaos and loss of rights for women in those countries. And now she is red-baiting Bernie, who is no more left than Robert Kennedy was.

Really, she is NOT a liberal.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #137)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 05:10 AM

141. Ridiculous premise. Hillary is a progressive liberal.

This is basic stuff, Art. Intro to Politics.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #80)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:09 PM

106. "No true Scotsman...."

...that's your argument?

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Response to robbob (Reply #106)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:32 PM

118. Hillary is a PROGRESSIVE liberal.

Her supporters are all PROGRESSIVES by definition as they want to tackle and fix large problems, using the power of government as needed.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #118)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:23 PM

129. Like the progressively-resolved problem of Saddam's WMDs and al-Qaeda membership?

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #129)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 05:15 AM

142. "Clinton...always been..pretty far to the left."

Last edited Fri Jan 22, 2016, 06:27 AM - Edit history (1)

From FiveThirtyEight: "Hillary Clinton Was Liberal. Hillary Clinton Is Liberal.
A bunch of reporters have recently discovered a shocking truth: Hillary Clinton is liberal! (I heard a rumor that Columbo has been helping with the investigation.)

We’ve gotten this raft of “Clinton is liberal” exposés as Clinton has revved up her 2016 campaign, speaking out in support of gay marriage, a pathway to citizenship for immigrants in the U.S. illegally, and criminal justice reform. But what many of these articles miss is that Clinton has always been, by most measures, pretty far to the left. When she’s shifted positions, it has been in concert with the entire Democratic Party."


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:39 AM

59. k/r

 

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:56 PM

94. Their is not red bate: Sanders is a socialist he choice to be one Himself

 

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:20 PM

99. Well that was coherent.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:36 PM

107. I wonder if Red bating [sic] is like masturbating. n/t

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Response to geardaddy (Reply #107)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:49 PM

108. They want our precious bodily fluids...


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #108)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:26 PM

115. that's why...

I only drink grain alcohol and rain water.

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Response to green917 (Reply #115)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:41 PM

121. No flouride in your dihydrogen monoxide!


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #108)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:45 PM

122. Jack D. Ripper



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Response to geardaddy (Reply #122)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:52 PM

123. Some folks seem to think that was a documentary.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:05 PM

111. yikes!

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:28 PM

130. Just checked out lewebely3 stats, interesting.

Status is in review, 0% chance of serving on a jury. Tells a lot.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #130)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:41 PM

132. I didn't notice that.

That is interesting.

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:57 PM

109. I hope you feel better--seriously, whether it's flu or exhaustion. Get some rest. n/t

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Response to lewebley3 (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:32 PM

119. Another day, another incoherent one liner.

By the way, SOCIALIST is not the same thing as COMMUNIST.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:55 PM

2. Great piece! Thanks to the person who wrote it on DailyKos, and to you for posting it here.

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Response to kath (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:30 PM

21. my grandpa was a socialist and got blackballed trying to organize a

Railroad union. I am a trillion percent with the op

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:07 PM

45. Both of my grandpas were union organizers back in the '30s and '40s. At least one of them was

Blackballed for this. My dad was president of the faculty union at his college, and led them out on strike over healthcare benefits.

Both of my Dad's parents were Irish immigrants. When my dad was growing up, a pic of the Sacred Heart of Jesus hung on one wall of their living room and a picture of FDR on another. How appalled they would be to see what has happened to the Party of the New Deal.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:00 PM

3. Hillary isn't responsible when people tangentially connected to her say and do things that displease

you.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:01 PM

6. Haha, like Claire McCaskill is "tangentially" connected to Hillary?


More like Siamese twins those two.

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Response to thereismore (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:05 PM

9. Bull. McCaskill is supporting her bid for the presidency but she is NOT close with the Clintons. She

speaks for herself, not the campaign.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:06 PM

10. She is her attack person. nt

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Response to thereismore (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:03 PM

87. . . . with just enough distance for plausible deniability.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:43 PM

23. My ass she doesn't speak for the campaign.


Biden.. we don't need socialism wasn't for the campaign either, eh.

And the rest of the exact same communist references that are about to start popping out.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:34 PM

38. Get Reallll!

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Response to Metric System (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:33 AM

57. Yeah, funny how she and other "independent thinkers" all say the same thing at the same time

 

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Response to Metric System (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:49 PM

104. McCaskill DOES and IS speaking for Hillary Clinton and her campaign.

Who are you kidding? Just like Hillary used Nebraska Senator to enter my state of Iowa, in 08, and declar during a press conference, "I just love it that his name is Barack Hussein Obama!" Yeah, Hillary often tasks her cohorts with speaking the dirty words for her. To suggest that Clinton and McCaskill are not working in tandem, is ludicrous.

Kerrey later apologized for his remarks. I doubt that McCaskill will.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Claire McCaskill Headed to Iowa to Campaign For Hillary Clinton"

With Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton in a tight race in Iowa, Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill will head to the Hawkeye State this weekend to campaign for the Democratic frontrunner.

McCaskill will join fellow Sens. Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota in a series of stops in eastern Iowa, which tends to be the most Democratic part of the state.

The group will focus on Clinton’s “commitment to moving America forward by guaranteeing women’s right to make their own health-care choices,” a statement from Clinton’s campaign said. “Hillary Clinton will always stand up for Planned Parenthood and for a woman’s right to choose.”

The group will stop in Mount Vernon, Dubuque, Waterloo and Mason City Friday and Saturday. Baldwin will make an additional stop on Saturday in Iowa City.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article54098965.html

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Response to Metric System (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:05 PM

8. "Tangentially"? WTF? Do you expect anyone to be dumb enough to believe that one.

The spinning at Camp Weathervane must be redlining the turbine blades by now.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:13 PM

12. Where's your proof that she's being told by the campaign to do this?

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Response to Metric System (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:14 PM

13. Where's your proof that she has absolutely no connection to the campaign?

You started this spin post, you prove your claim.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:57 PM

30. The same 'proof' that told me Saddam didn't have any WMDs.

My fucking common sense.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:03 PM

35. For me it was

 

the NATO weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq saying that they had no WMDs that got me to believe that he did not have any WMDs.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:36 AM

62. Well, yes. That too. Hans Blix knew the score.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:58 PM

31. Give me a decade and a FOIA request.

 

For fucks sake, have the backbone to step the fuck up and own it.

It's pathetic to watch you and your ilk try to have it both ways. This is why you LOST in 2008 and why you will LOSE in 2016.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:15 PM

15. ROFL!

 

"..The spinning at Camp Weathervane must be redlining the turbine blades by now..."




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Response to Segami (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:56 PM

29. I thought of this..

WIKI--
"The turbofan or fanjet is a type of airbreathing jet engine that is widely used in aircraft propulsion. The word "turbofan" ........."refers to a gas turbine engine which takes mechanical energy from combustion,[1] and the fan, a ducted fan that uses the mechanical energy from the gas turbine to accelerate air rearwards.

"...whereas all the air taken in by a turbojet passes through the turbine" .......," in a turbofan some of that air bypasses the turbine. A turbofan thus can be thought of as a turbojet being used to drive a ducted fan, with both of those contributing to the thrust."

Claire McCaskill, and it now looks like Biden, is/are the air that bypasses the turbine.

And in the end, it is all just hot air anyway.

I was going to edit this better, but I have already had a couple margaritas.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:36 PM

40. Well Conceived... Nice Job!

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:02 PM

44. ROFL!

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:57 AM

63. This is where the internet becomes educational.

 

I kind of knew what a turbine was but had no idea about "redlining." Thought maybe it was an accounting term. So good ol' wikipedia informed me that the red area on the tachometer is called the red lines. Nice to know. Thanks!

And, as a bonus, it's an apt metaphor for Camp Weathervane's spin operation. So thanks again!

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Response to Metric System (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:36 PM

16. Oh I see, Senators aren't connected to candidates but Twitter supporters are.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:44 PM

24. Now how does that go? I have read it a thousand times on DU.... Oh, I remember!

It goes something like this; " I really like Bernie and would like to support him but if his supporters are going to be so mean and lie about Hillary I just can't support Bernie."

Sound familiar to you? So... "I would really like to support Hillary but her supporters and spokespersons are so mean and lie all the time so I really can't support her."

Goose and Gander.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:55 PM

27. BULLSHIT and you know it. Don't play fucking stupid.

 

We both know you aren't.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:02 PM

138. Nice try.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:00 PM

4. Bernie wrote a book about Eugene V. Dobs.

Last edited Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Actually I take that back. It was a documentary that he made.

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Response to thereismore (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:59 PM

33. He also read Marx, Engels, et al.

That PROVES he is a Red Communist.

10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - -----

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Response to pangaia (Reply #33)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:05 PM

36. So did I. nt

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Response to pangaia (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:05 PM

88. Yeah me to. You know what? I actually learned something from it.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:00 PM

5. Well. SHE's toAstT now!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:04 PM

7. How can they not see that this will backfire?

 

Honestly, I just don't get it. Even being desperate doesn't account for this one.




http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/17/1471163/-Red-dawn-More-Iowa-Democratic-caucus-goers-identify-as-socialist-than-capitalist


^snip^


A little-noticed data point in the new Selzer & Co. Iowa poll, in fact, shows that 43 percent of likely voters in the Feb. 1 caucuses say they would use the word "socialist" to describe themselves.

And to be very clear, this question was not whether they would vote for a socialist or sympathize with socialism; it's whether they consider themselves socialist.

The 43 percent of likely Iowa Democratic caucus-goers who self-identify as socialist is actually more than the number who identify themselves as capitalist — 38 percent.


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:12 PM

11. Recommended and BOOKMARKED.

Running such a deeply cynical campaign is going to leave permanent scars on the party.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:15 PM

14. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Segami.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 06:38 PM

17. K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:25 PM

18. K & R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:27 PM

19. Thanks for the post and the reminder

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:30 PM

20. Damn son is your name really Dylan ?

Do you spit hot fire ? I think so....

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Response to ValasHune (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:49 AM

70. DY-LAN

Love the post, and also this Chappelle's show reference.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:32 PM

22. KICKING, Need To Bookmark, Too Much Info In My Head

right now. Between the Australian Open (love my tennis) and the NASTY, UNDERHANDED way the Clinton campaign is COMPLETELY turning me into a raging maniac, I gotta take a break!

Keep fighting back, keep EXPOSING all the LIES! DISGUSTING!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:49 PM

25. K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:52 PM

26. Hear, Hear !!!

 





& Rec !!!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:55 PM

28. K&R Thanks for posting. eom

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:58 PM

32. Kick

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 08:59 PM

34. AMEN!! Tell it, bro!

 

K & R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:35 PM

39. There are enough of us to take over the Independent party

just sayin. I don't think they would like it, but they should have thought of their numbers and putting up a serious candidate which they never do.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:48 PM

42. It's not red bait. Bernie IS a socialist

That is the truth. Most Americans are comfortable with the current mix of socialism and well regulated capitalism. Bernie's views are not mainstream and would cost us the White House and up to 4 Supreme Court nominations.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #42)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:38 PM

47. This shows a lack of understanding the difference between communism

 

and being a Social Democrat. This also shows a lack of understanding what the phrase red menace means.

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Response to artislife (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:40 PM

48. And that's what he'd be facing and it's why he'd lose. nt

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #48)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:34 PM

50. Because people don't understand more than you do?

 

He is going to win.

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Response to artislife (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

52. Running on Socialism and raising taxes

Is a loser in the GE. Sorry.

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #52)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:50 PM

55. Ha..I like that you have a favorite meme to push. nt

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:31 AM

56. Calling it a meme doesn't mean it's not true

If Bernie wins the nomination he will get crushed in the GE

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:44 AM

60. I think you meant to write Hillary in that little scenario...nt

 

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:46 AM

75. And you base that theory on what?

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:03 AM

65. This is totally wishful thinking on your part.

 

If Bernie's views were not mainstream he wouldn't be picking up so much steam (and voters) as he rolls along. People hear him and love him.

Apparently you are not familiar with Franklin Delano Roosevelt who made life more livable for millions of Americans for decades, until Reagan undid the New Deal, and was constantly called "socialist" by Republicans.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:02 AM

67. So the 81% of Dems and 58% of the general population who want Medicare for All--

--are not mainstream?

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:44 AM

74. Are you trying to be funny?

"Most Americans are comfortable with the current mix of socialism and well regulated capitalism. "

Obviously not. The American People want more socialism and actual regulation of Wall Street.
Sanders views are very mainstream and polling proves it.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:16 AM

79. "Most Americans are comfortable with the current mix of socialism and well regulated capitalism."

They are? The crowds showing up for Bernie might just prove you wrong. The raging and rising economic inequality in this country is another way that you might just be proven wrong.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:07 PM

89. They have been whittling away at a half way decent mix for the past 40 years. We need to get back

to a good mix.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:56 PM

43. Absolutely! nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:10 PM

46. Wow!

Bravo MrJayTee

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:49 PM

49. Tell it!

 

My feelings as well!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:48 PM

53. :) The certainty of that reminds me of this

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:48 PM

54. Snap!

Well written and to the point.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:38 AM

58. That last paragraph makes me really sad.

Perhaps because I just learned the name of my father's biological parents, and my brother and I are *wailing* on ancestry.com. Cambria Steel machinist, janitor, baker, electrician, WWI veterans, farmers... like most American families, we're workers. How have things gotten *so* out of whack in this country?!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:46 AM

61. The Legacy of McCarthyism

 

--by Ellen Schrecker

http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/mccarthy/schrecker6.htm

(Snips)

"Quantification aside, it may be helpful to look at the specific sectors of American society that McCarthyism touched. Such an appraisal, tentative though it must be, may offer some insight into the extent of the damage and into the ways in which the anti-Communist crusade influenced American society, politics, and culture. We should keep in mind, however, that McCarthyism's main impact may well have been in what did not happen rather than in what did the social reforms that were never adopted, the diplomatic initiatives that were not pursued, the workers who were not organized into unions, the books that were not written, and the movies that were never filmed."

"The most obvious casualty was the American left. The institutional toll is clear. The Communist party, already damaged by internal problems, dwindled into insignificance and all the organizations associated with it disappeared. The destruction of the front groups and the left-led unions may well have had a more deleterious impact on American politics than the decline of the party itself. With their demise, the nation lost the institutional network that had created a public space where serious alternatives to the status quo could be presented. Moreover, with the disappearance of a vigorous movement on their left, moderate reform groups were more exposed to right-wing attacks and thus rendered less effective."

"In the realm of social policy, for example, McCarthyism may have aborted much-needed reforms. As the nation's politics swung to the right after World War II, the federal government abandoned the unfinished agenda of the New Deal. Measures like national health insurance, a social reform embraced by the rest of the industrialized world, simply fell by the wayside. The left liberal political coalition that might have supported health reforms and similar projects was torn apart by the anti-Communist crusade. Moderates feared being identified with anything that seemed too radical, and people to the left of them were either unheard or under attack. McCarthyism further contributed to the attenuation of the reform impulse by helping to divert the attention of the labor movement, the strongest institution within the old New Deal coalition, from external organizing to internal politicking."

"The nation's cultural and intellectual life suffered as well. While there were other reasons that TV offered a bland menu of quiz shows and westerns during the late 1950s, McCarthy-era anxieties clearly played a role. Similarly, the blacklist contributed to the reluctance of the film industry to grapple with controversial social or political issues. In the intellectual world, cold war liberals also avoided controversy. They celebrated the "end of ideology," claiming that the United States' uniquely pragmatic approach to politics made the problems that had once concerned left- wing ideologists irrelevant. Consensus historians pushed that formulation into the past and described a nation that had supposedly never experienced serious internal conflict. It took the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War to end this complacency and bring reality back in. "

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Response to AOR (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:51 AM

77. Great read, Thanks!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:00 AM

64. Another couple of Socialists...

 



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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:37 PM

92. Don't forget MLK. nt

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:07 PM

113. And another one

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #113)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:51 PM

133. And a Presbyterian minister as well, like Fred Rogers.

 

My oldest friend is a multi-generational friendship. Her grandfather and my father were union organizers in the bad old days of the 1930s when they were trying to get labor laws passed.

Norman Thomas had Sunday dinner with her grandparents, and she has "Dear Comrade" letters from him to her grandparents.

He ran for President six times. His grandson is Evan Thomas, journalist, who has written most recently a book about Nixon.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:05 AM

66. "An ambitious, amoral campaign" -- succinct and true. nt

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:28 AM

68. That's worth a hoo-rah.



It's kind of amazing that a savvy politician would allow contempt to creep out so obviously. Setting aside accusations of "desperation," running a campaign on the principle of "yes, I suck, but the other guy is worse" is bad tactics. Isn't it a principle of advertising that if you downgrade the other guy's brand too much, the marks begin to wonder if all the products suck? We surely have a "plague a' both your houses" mood in this country. It used to be, democrats wanted to court the voters and get the largest turnout possible. Clearly, the GOP employs a strategy of alienating and disempowering as many as they can, so that only their fanatical faithful will vote. Surely it isn't possible that the 3rd-way Democrats think in much the same way? Surely.

-- Mal

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:41 AM

69. I, in_cog_ni_to, STAND WITH by MrJayTee! RED BAITING is the lowest of Hillary's lows and she has

Plenty of others, but this one takes the cake, ices the cake, sprinkles the cake, decorates the cake and adds a freakin' cherry on top of the cake!

Yeah, I stand with by MrJayTee!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:33 AM

71. +1000

I can't rec this enough.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:35 AM

72. All it takes for the word "socialist" to be OK again...

Is million of people on Youtube, on their blogs, whenever they speak, to use the word proudly, knowing that at the core there is a call for compassion and solidarity.

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Response to Helen Borg (Reply #72)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:33 AM

81. Or to have capitalism fail again as miserably as it did in 1929. n/t

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Response to deutsey (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:47 AM

82. Perhaps, but it kinda did in 2008 and yet...

Now we seem to be back to square one. Bubbles emerging and popping, same crap all over...

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Response to Helen Borg (Reply #82)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:49 AM

83. Not as bad as 1929.

2008 was very bad, but '29 was catastrophic.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:35 AM

73. But wait!

Ol Bernie is being called a socialist. Well duh - isn't he?

And ol Bernie is railing against the establishment yet he's been in politics for how long - since 1972?

And ol Bernie is now talking about Hillary's "coronation," falling back into the same tired old argument that Hillary expects to be crowned Queen. King Bernie can't have it both ways.

And Hillary's so-called surrogates are nothing near as nasty of King Bernie's supporters on DU!

You want a fight? You got it!

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Response to Gamecock Lefty (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:51 AM

76. Need some vinigar with your word salad?

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Response to Gamecock Lefty (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:18 PM

96. And Hillary's so-called surrogates are nothing near as nasty of King Bernie's supporters on DU!

 

Oh well then....

I'll have to vote for Sarah Palin... or something.


Every time the "Bernie's supporters are meanies" comes up, it just proves Queen Hillary ain't got nothing to offer. Her supporters are all in a tizzy because she didn't just slide into home plate without anyone pointing out her flaws.

Which is curious because she lost the last primary too.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:56 AM

78. amen!!!!!!

In the last two weeks I have gone from supporting Hillary to sitting on the fence. Thank you Claire and Hillary and Chelsea.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:55 AM

84. It's becoming obvious the the Democratic wing of the Democratic party has had enough!

No longer willing to be marginalized, counted on to support a corrupt a neoliberal agenda or be their scapegoat when the public grows tired of voting for candidates that are more interested in representing plutocrats than the poor and middle class...

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:30 PM

85. Then you will get the president that you deserve

and will be laughed out of the room if you utter one complaint about something bad that President Trump or President Cruz did.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #85)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:07 PM

95. Going by the polls, that'll be the case if Hillary wins the nom

She barely equals those two, while Sanders easily defeats the entire pack.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 12:32 PM

86. If she goes down that road, I won't be voting FOR her, I'll be voting AGAINST the Republican.

 

Which means she will still get my vote, but thats a sad state of affairs and I hope I don't have to feel that way come November.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:13 PM

90. Look out, there's a straw man over there!

One under your bed too, I suspect.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:21 PM

91. K&R

I've said that I'll have no problem voting for Hillary if she is the nominee. Her attacks on single payer are making me rethink that.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 01:38 PM

93. Thank you for this courageous OP

Right on, brother.

Time and time again we have sat patiently while Rahm Emanuel calls us "retards" or Jon Cowan writes a position stating that there is no evidence that rank-and-file Democrats think the way we do. There seems to be plenty of evidence that we do and that evidence is the success of Bernie's campaign. How do you like that 800-pound gorilla, Mr. Cowan?

Apart from insulting the base of the party or brazenly lying about the base's existence or what the base thinks, Mayor Emanuel and Mr. Cowan are little more than Republicans who support gay rights and equal pay for women; they can even give lip service to Black Lives Matter, but Mayor Emanuel has absolutely no credibility when he does. They are fascists who think the party's rank-and-file should just get in line and vote for the Republican-lite candidate of their choice while they collect [strike]bribes[/strike] generous campaign contributions from Wall Street donors for not sending Wall Street criminals to prison or keeping the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall off the table.

If it makes anyone happy, I will vote for Mrs. Clinton in the general election if she is the nominee of the party, although I may rethink that should she become the nominee through subterfuge after being rejected by primary voters. I will vote for her, but that will say less about what I think of her than it will say about what I think of Donald Trump or Ted Cruz or whatever clown is left standing in the GOP. I will vote for her, but I will not give her one minute of my time or one dime of my measly money, Make no mistake about it, I have no confidence in Hillary Clinton or any other neoliberal to be a good or even adequate leader for the American people.

I will vote her in November and then hit the streets starting in January to call for an end to poverty and income inequality, for renewable energy to supplement and eventually supplant fossil fuels, for civil disobedience to ISDS rulings and direct action against any corporate executive who even thinks out loud about taking a case to an unelected board of corporate shysters. We can start with Trans-Canada. I will hit the streets to call for the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, the repealing of Gramm-Leach-Bliley and the jailing of Legs Dimon, Pretty Boy Lloyd and rest of the Wall Street criminals. I will hit the streets calling for single payer healthcare. I'll even be willing to call it (gasp!) socialized medicine. Why? Because socialism is no longer a dirty word, and we have today's crooked captains of industry and their corrupt stooges in the Republican Party or the Republican wing of the Democratic Party to thank for that.

I will hit the streets and call for democracy and an abrupt end to oligarchy. I will tolerate no nonsense about how the Founding Fathers, who owned slaves and suppressed the right to vote for the common man and all women, didn't want a democracy and thus created a mere republic. We are going to correct that serious flaw in their otherwise fine work.

I will hit the streets because though I may vote for Mrs. Clinton in November, I will not follow her off the cliff toward which every American president of both parties since Reagan has marched us. She clearly has no plans to change course from the road to that abyss.

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #93)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:19 PM

98. + 1, well said!

The American public in general are quick to forgive and forget . . . on most things.

The American Left has still not forgotten the many ways a Clinton betrayed us. To quote the phrase that Shrubya so mangled, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." The point being that we were fooled by Bill Clinton. We are not going to be fooled by Hillary too (and they can keep Chelsea, as well, from what I've seen of her.)

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:34 PM

100. Off topic - Anyone else think Debs looks like a bald George W. Bush in that picture?

 

Ironic.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:35 PM

101. I agree Segami. It would be a shame

if the leadership in the Democratic Party begins to sound like that slime ball Senator Joseph McCarthy.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:38 PM

102. Hasn't been too bad so far.

 

The only thing I have seen is the old, "Bernie can't win because he's a socialist." No direct comparisons to Joe Stalin. Just the implication that Republicans will attack him as such. Of course, they will attack Clinton the same way.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:08 PM

105. Kickin'

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:13 PM

114. And I don't even consider Bernie a leftist.

Through the power of MSM whole schools of serious political thought have been rendered non existent. I shudder what she would think of my anarchist-syndicalist friends. To me, she's just another ignorant bourgie with no respect for anyone whose ideas differ from her own. far as I'm concerned the whole power structure is a form of totaliarism, and anyone who wants to keep the status quo either likes being a slave or likes owning them. I put her in the second group.

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Response to Scruffy1 (Reply #114)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:03 PM

139. Right? K&R to your post -

nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:54 PM

124. K & R !

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:19 PM

125. So, we've gone from FDR to Eugene Debbs . ...

..... well at least it's honest and authentic . And a complete loss in the general election.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:21 PM

126. More "I wont vote for HIllary in the GE" thread, while this should be RARE at DU

it is all day every day.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:22 PM

127. David Brock was already at this a couple of months ago, and now the other employees are on it.

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:23 PM

128. I must be losing my hearing, but I could have sworn I just heard Chuckie Toad on MTP

declare that Hillary was the party of the past and Bernie was the party of the future. I don't know folks, what is going on?

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:35 PM

131. hillary's self serving attacks on

bernie are really aimed at all of us - the voting public, unless you have money in your pocket to make her richer and put her on the throne she desires. all of her efforts to win over women and people of color and the working class is pure pandering and fake. if she gets her dream to come true she will only wield power for her personal interests and our causes will be thrown in the trash heap. dispicable.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:54 PM

134. Thank you

For your brilliant post! I too often think I am completely alone...

I've admired Bernie for many years... and some personal experience, back when IBM was cheating its employees, he stood together with us at the company shareholder meeting. A man of great integrity.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:44 PM

135. I am a Socialist. I will not vote for ANY candidate who engages in red-baiting, ever.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:46 PM

136. wait for the the General Election if BS is the candidate. the GOP are masters of demonizing


opponenets!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:12 PM

140. It's a sign of the times

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