Hillary V Trump would be a terrible matchup for Dems.

[TDale313]

There. I said it. I can't imagine a scenario that would fire up the righties and demoralize the left more. At a moment when people are aware that the status quo and business as usual are not only not working for them, but actively working against their best interests, running the ultimate business-as-usual, establishment candidate running on nothing better than "they suck worse"- against someone like Trump who's pretty effectively giving the whole system the finger? She's uninspiring against a guy who is all id and bluster and I think that is not gonna go well for the Dems.

Let me say this- I am cautiously optimistic she would still win. And gods, I hope she would. Cause Trump is truly dangerous. But I genuinely believe she'll do worse than Bernie would, and she'll have no coattails at all.

[restorefreedom]

1. most of the people in my life have gone beyond party

their top two are bernie/trump or trump/bernie

the estsblishment is toast

sanders v trump 2016

[RKP5637]

52. In a way, there is some crossover with Bernie and Trump in they are anti-establishment.

Hillary represents the status quo, and millions and millions think the establishment sucks, republicans and democrats. HRC would be IMO representing SOS. Bernie and Trump are offering something different. People want change, not the SOS. 2016 is going to be a wild ride.

[restorefreedom]

54. people much older than me

have said they haven't seen anything like it

[Hoyt]

2. I would enjoy Clinton kicking Trump's racist rear. I don't think Sanders could do that.

[Gregorian]

5. Then you haven't been paying attention. Bernie kicks ass. Hillary kisses ass.

[cali]

6. Hillary is a horrible campaigner

[Hortensis]

22. Some apparently missed the 13-hour Benghazi hearing

where Hillary calmly shredded all attacks by a pack of professional trial lawyers-turned-politicians. We've also had 3 debates showing just how well she performs in public. Her extremely impressive performance GAINED her many supporters and prospective supporters among people who'd never really looked at her before.

Here's the truth:

The GOP leadership is TERRIFIED of Trump going up against Hillary. Not only do they believe they will lose the White House if that happens, they believe Trump will be so awful they will lose dozens, perhaps hundreds of down-ticket offices to Democratic contenders.

[BlueJazz]

39. I think she would lose. All those young voters would say "Fuck it"

[SheilaT]

9. Have you noticed that polls show

Bernie beating Trump by a rather large margin, and Hillary just squeaking past him?

[Hoyt]

10. Yeah, the polls show Clinton ahead of Sanders too. Polls don't mean

much right now. Trump will make Sanders look like Dukakis. Sorry.

[Hortensis]

24. Disagree on Trump -- he's NO GOOD one-on-one.

Of course. He's incredibly, shockingly ignorant for a man in his position, and he lacks the ability to present anything but the most simple ideas (like, "You're a stupid doo-doo" or "This isn't a country!&quot well.

Trump doesn't begin to be a match for Bernie. His only advantage is that he can hurl insults in a casual, laid-back way that is likely to make Bernie seem a little too serious at time.

Trump has no explanations for how he would accomplish even the knuckle-dragger threats he tosses around. His team will come up with some, but like W he won't remember or understand them well enough to field questions about them in public.

Also, in a very real sense (like Bernie), Trump has not yet been required to protect his candidacy from the kind of constant, very heavily funded "incoming" bombardments those who become serious candidates must to survive. Unlike Bernie, Trump has a whole lot of highly questionable baggage that most people don't even know about yet; but they will.

[Hoyt]

26. I agree with you on Trump. Problem is people like bullies and racists. I believe Clinton

will kick his worthless rear.

[hrmjustin]

3. Sanders woukd be no better.

[TDale313]

4. Gonna agree to disagree on that.

I think his authenticity and message are a far better antidote to Trump, but aware that's jmo.

[Hortensis]

25. "authenticity and message...antidote to Trump"... Me too.

[Broward]

7. Hillary's for the TPP despite what she says now.

Trump is against it. How's that going to play with the voters?

[Hoyt]

12. How many people in this country believe their jobs will be hurt by TPP.

Not teachers, police/fire, government workers, construction workers, Healthcare providers, service workers, transportation workers, etc. There ain't many that will be impacted by TPP in short-run. I think we all gain in long-term.

[LettuceSea]

19. MI,WI,OH,PA

[Hoyt]

21. Not if new markets open up for their products.

[jeff47]

43. Still trying to sell that after NAFTA, CAFTA

and a very long list of "free trade" agreements failed to do so?

Exactly how stupid do you think workers are?

[Hoyt]

45. Sure are a lot of countries lining up to sign the agreements.

I guess they are all anti-worker.

[jeff47]

46. Of course they are lining up. They benefit.

Our workers? Not so much.

You wanna go back to last year's talking point that US workers have to accept third-world living conditions? That went really well when you tried it.

[Hoyt]

47. We are more likely to end up like that trying to trade among ourselves.

[stillwaiting]

48. You know better than to make THAT as an argument. I know you do. So stop. nt

[Hoyt]

62. Well the whole argument we'll end up like a 3rd world country is specious.

Besides, we've taken more than our share of the world's wealth. Don't you think it's time to share a bit?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Fortunately, my ballot comes with more than two choices if that's what happens.

[TDale313]

11. I feel the same way. But I'm in a safely blue state.

I'd find that harder if I were in more of a swing state, cause, my issues with Hillary aside, I do believe Trump is very, very dangerous.

[Odin2005]

14. I refuse to vote for Hillary.

[Odin2005]

13. Hillary scares away voters.

She is DESPISED. Anyone who believes otherwise is stuck in the Establishment Beltway Bubble and is out of touch with reality.

[Dems to Win]

15. I'm gloomier than you, I think Trump would beat Clinton

Not a pleasant thought.

Check this out, from the Guardian, in an article that was about Trump and Palin:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/23/trump-palin-funny-no-joke-republican-stars

It is a mood that stretches far beyond the US and is advancing in Europe too. Rage against anything that smacks of the system – including even the kind of coherent reform plans that might actually change it – has become a great, unstoppable force. And this is what Hillary Clinton is up against. She embodies the system at the very moment the system has never been more hated. And that’s no joke.

[TDale313]

18. That's the crux of it.

And I am worried Trump would actually win against her (although I still think overall the math favors her)

I will say this. I think she'd likely beat the others in the clown car.

[Dems to Win]

33. Trump is Schwarzenegger and Prop 187 rolled into one dangerous package

At a time when no Rep can get elected to anything statewide in California, Schwarz was the governor, due solely to his celebrity, imho. Trump's a modern celebrity, a reality TV star.

Prop 187, to withhold all state public benefits from illegal immigrants in California, passed in 1994 (it was thrown out by the courts).

Demographics have changed in the intervening years, but.... I worry a lot that if this stuff could happen in California, the whole country is going to eat up Trump like raw meat. No matter what the polls say today.

No matter that Trump has insulted vast swaths of the populace. Another Guardian article:
'We love you!' Conservative women turn blind eye to Donald Trump's slurs
In interviews with female supporters across Iowa, not one mentioned being turned off by anti-women remarks.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/22/donald-trump-conservative-women-turn-blind-eye-anti-women-slurs

I strongly believe Bernie has the best chance of beating Trump. No happy wedding party photos of Bernie with the Donald.

[TDale313]

42. I've made the Trump/Scwarzenegger comparison myself.

It was a sad moment seeing my state vote for the Governator. The only silver lining was when he decided to put his right wing, power grabbing, union busting agenda on the ballot and we handed him his ass.

[BlueStateLib]

57. "Britain First", a political party and movement formed in 2011

is very popular

[RKP5637]

61. Exactly! The system has never been more hated by all. Going up with this system as ones

record is going to be a sure loser IMO. No matter what she says, she is seen as part of the system.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. She would beat Trump like a rented mule.

There aren't nearly enough angry white guys to bolster his campaign in a national election. That is literally the only group he hasn't taken a rhetorical dump on.

[nxylas]

17. I can see the narrative that would be pushed

Trump the plucky outsider vs Hillary the machine politician loved by the establishment. Sure, Trump makes an unlikely Mr Smith, but if a lie is repeated often enough, people will start to believe it.

[KingFlorez]

20. She would destroy him

Clinton is tough and not afraid to call Trump out for what he is.

[TIME TO PANIC]

23. Trump would win; Hillary has pissed off the base.

[Hoyt]

29. The Democratic base? You mean like John Lewis, unions, etc.

[TIME TO PANIC]

32. I mean those who aren't part of the establishment or in a beltway bubble.

Most unions endorse Sanders, when their members get to have a say.

[Vincardog]

34. Like the majority who want single payer, family leave, fair elections, debt free college

[Hoyt]

35. Bet many of them are voting for Clinton as the best chance to achieve goals.

[Vincardog]

36. HAve you seen her ads?

[Hoyt]

44. Sure haven't seen any anti-dem base ads? Got any links.

[Vincardog]

55. Only if your goal is to maintain the status que

[redstateblues]

27. Sanders has a lot of baggage that the Republicans

would have a field day exploiting. Candidates in swing states would get as far away from bernie as they could. There are no down ballot Socialists FYI

[ram2008]

30. Believe me if there was more baggage, Clinton would've already dumped it

Every attempt at attacking Bernie has failed.

[Vincardog]

37. Keep repearting that RW schtick (thank you) and maybe you can convince youreslf. I don't buy it.

Last edited Sat Jan 23, 2016, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

[redstateblues]

41. RW stick? (I think you mean schtick) Sanders supporters attacks on Hillary put Rush/Hannity to shame

You guys regurgitate more RW schtick than the Rs do. Bernie would be very vulnerable in the GE. You are whistling past the graveyard if you aren't aware of that. He would do well to start unpacking it and try to neutralize it.

[Vincardog]

56. Please enlighten us. Post three of these debilitating attacks. I say you and you candidate have

Nothing to add and only stand to retard progress.

[LonePirate]

28. The Dem candidate in the GE regardless of who it is will win every state Obama won in 2012.

There is no need for the teeth gnashing or candidate bashing.

[brooklynite]

31. As far as coattails go, I haven't met a candidate who WANTS to run with Bernie...

[Ferd Berfel]

38. YEs because she'll loose - she will energize the right wing base to come out and

vote against her and her lack luster, status quo, business as usual message will not
get the Dem base out.

Another train wreck

[onecaliberal]

40. Hillary will lose to tRump. And it wouldn't even be close.

Republicans despise Hillary. Establiment AND crazy Cons will show up to vote against her. She has high unfavorables with Indies as well.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

49. Nonsense. It's the single best possible matchup for the Dems.

The scariest matchup is Rubio vs Sanders.

[Fast Walker 52]

59. Rubio is terrible-- he will never be elected

[Attorney in Texas]

50. Trump ("No Hope But Plenty of Change") vs. Clinton ("No We Can't") -- too close to call. Cruz or

Rubio beat her outright.

Sanders, on the other hand, beats all three easily.

We can't beat an anti-establishment Republican with an establishment Democrat in a change election. It's that simple. Democrats and Republicans agree on NOTHING but a weariness of the status quo. A status quo Democrat is a ticket to a Republican administration (and a generational right-wing tilt in the SCOTUS).

[Vinca]

51. Hillary would need a whole lot of Republican votes to win the general because she's

not exciting the Democrats much and we'll probably have a low turnout election. She could win with Republican voters, though, if they cast their votes as an anti-Trump message. I heard a blurb somewhere that there is a line of thinking on the GOP side that they'll support Trump in the primary because they hate Cruz even more, then throw the general to teach the far right whack jobs a lesson.

[underpants]

53. Even with an attack or economic downturn it will be really really hard for any Repub to win

Database (OFA Specifically)
Volunteer networks
Demographics

[Fast Walker 52]

58. I still think Trump is unelectable to the majority of the country

[TDale313]

60. I genuinely hope you're right.

But he's tapping into something we underestimate at our peril, whoever our nominee is.

[Fast Walker 52]

64. Yeah -- I think he's *probably* unelectable but still anything could happen

in a big campaign-- and we sure don't want to take any chances

Certainly, the whole fucking GOP party SHOULD BE unelectable, but still people keep voting for them.

However, Trump is a special form of toxicity even for GOP voters.

[FloriDem]

63. It would be bad for everyone, not just the Dems.

It would be bad for everyone, not just the Dems.