Bernie Sanders: I won't get as many votes as Obama in '08

[ProudToBeLiberal]

Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that he clearly needs a strong voter turnout to win in Iowa on Monday, but he has no expectation of reaching the high-water mark set by then-Sen. Barack Obama in 2008.

"Obama in 2008 ran a campaign which is really going to stay in the history books. It was an unbelievable campaign. In places they ran out of ballots, as I understand," Sanders told reporters after a meeting with the United Steelworkers in Des Moines, Iowa. "The turnout was so extraordinary, nobody expected it. Do I think in this campaign that we are going to match that? I would love to see us do that, I hope we can."

But he added, "Frankly, I don't think we can. What Obama did in 2008 is extraordinary."

Almost twice as many people showed up to caucus in 2008 for the Democratic candidates as had in recent Iowa presidential contests, something largely attributed to Obama's strong appeal and even stronger ground organization. Obama's upset of Clinton in the 2008 caucuses helped launch him to the nomination.

More at http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/26/politics/bernie-sanders-barack-obama-2008-iowa/

Bernie goes on and on how he is going to have a political revolution and this is how he is going to get Democrats elected to Governorships, Congress, and etc. He keeps repeating how he has received more contributions than Obama. He implies that he is the second coming of Obama. Seems like a bunch of baloney.

[beam me up scottie]

1. .

Or until we vote for Hillary.

Keep it up.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

4. Going back on your word?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1058647

[beam me up scottie]

6. Going to alert?

That seems to happen a lot in your threads.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

8. Nah, you are my friend. nt

[ProudToBeLiberal]

9. I saw that edit. nt

[beam me up scottie]

10. Did you see the next one?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

11. nope. nt

[merrily]

53. Her word that another thread you started Sunday should sink. Wow, you really caught her

contradicting herself!

[beam me up scottie]

59. Yeah I didn't quite catch that either.

I don't think the logic is strong in this one.

[merrily]

67. On the bright side, you now can link to this thread.

[beam me up scottie]

72. And I can keep editing my posts.

For some reason that fascinates some people.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

61. How do you know scottie is a woman? Stop trying to put a gender tag. nt

[beam me up scottie]

68. Are you really going to question my gender?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

73. Wait, you're a woman? If so, my apologies. I have been addressing you as a generic "he."

Please accept my sincere apology.

[Ferd Berfel]

116. Bernie will get MORE votes than Obama

Feel the Bern

[peacebird]

2. He has rcvd more donations than Obama. His rise has been phenomenal. He will be a great President

Transformative even.

[thereismore]

3. He's just giving credit where credit is due. No baloney there. nt

[hrmjustin]

5. Sander is not interested in party building.

If he was he would be recruiting candidates to run and raising money for the party.

[sadoldgirl]

12. Bernie stands up for the people, which

cannot be said about the party nowadays.
See DWS.

[hrmjustin]

14. And my point still stands.

[BlueCaliDem]

27. Yes, it does. eom

[hrmjustin]

30. Thanks!

[BlueCaliDem]

33. It needed to be confirmed - and, you're always welcome, hrmjustin. eom

[beam me up scottie]

13. I'm voting for a candidate, not a party.

[hrmjustin]

15. My point still stands.

[beam me up scottie]

18. What point?

I'm fighting to survive here and so are millions of others, if the party wants to know why we're supporting an outsider they should have been paying attention.

[hrmjustin]

20. Reread.

[beam me up scottie]

23. I read it three times and I still don't care.

I'm not voting for a party.

[hrmjustin]

28. You cared enough to respond to me.

[beam me up scottie]

35. Because all of the blather about party loyalty is annoying.

It's just another way to browbeat Bernie supporters and remind us we don't really belong.

[hrmjustin]

38. That is bull! It is to expose the truth.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

You have no issue with criticizing Hillary but if I or others criticize Sanders you take it as a personal insult.

Get over it!

[beam me up scottie]

39. The truth about what? I think you mean the truthiness according to DWS.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

You have no issue with criticizing Hillary but if I or others criticize Sanders you take it as a personal insult.

Get over it!

What are you on about? What does that even mean?

[hrmjustin]

41. Google a dictionary and figure it out!

[beam me up scottie]

43. If you can't adequately communicate then I'm not the one at fault.

You seem to like strawman arguements and red herrings, that's all I get from your posts.

[hrmjustin]

45. If you can't understand simple sentence structures I can't help you.

[beam me up scottie]

46. I understand the sentences but they have nothing to do with what I posted.

[hrmjustin]

47. Enjoy your day!

[merrily]

57. The really critical thing is the last word, doncha know.

[beam me up scottie]

63. So if I type something like "djspkdtsn engdvdnswq!" and then "My point still stands" it'll work?

[merrily]

79. It depends on what your definition of "is" is--I mean, it depends on what

your definition of "works" is. If, for you, "works" means ending the discussion, maybe not. Maybe you will simply get a similar post in response.

I've seen it go on for quite a while--and, more than once, I've seen a Bernie Supporter get frustrated into a hide. Was on the jury in that scenario at least twice that I can recall.

[beam me up scottie]

90. That does seem to happen a lot in these threads, doesn't it?

Almost like that's the intent.

[merrily]

94. Yes. And I hate seeing Bernie's supporters get trapped that way.

Sometimes, it just so annoying, though, that I totally understand.

[beam me up scottie]

95. I started a thread about that a while back.

Maybe it's time for another.

[merrily]

97. Another one: But, will you vote for her if she's the nominee? But, will you, will you, will you,

will you, will you?

No, seriously, will you?

Don't worry about getting banned. That never happens.

[beam me up scottie]

99. Yep, they alert on people who say no, I've served on the juries.

[merrily]

100. What else is the point of hectoring with that question?

It's not as though a yes answer is anything that can be taken to the bank IRL anyway. So, what else is the purpose of the question besides trying to get hides and bans?

In fact, what else is the point of making pointless post after pointless post, no matter how inane, until you either provoke the other person into something you can alert on or you exhaust the other person?

Both kinds of behaviors are trolling to make trouble, nothing else.

[beam me up scottie]

101. Exactly.

Along with concern trolling and endless ops about one candidate's supporters.

You would think Hillary's supporters would post postive threads about their candidate but you almost never see any.

In the other hand O'Malley and Bernie fans scour the internet looking for positive issues-oriented articles to post.

Are there none our there about Hillary, is that the problem?

[merrily]

104. I don't mind OPs with substantive info about candidates, even if they are negative.

Negative articles about Bernie usually make me laugh, anyway.

The behaviors I'm thinking of are totally pointless, except as trolling. Substance free as to anything IRL.

[beam me up scottie]

106. Have you seen the latest from the op?

Right wing talking point du jour: Bernie wants to tax us just like Mondale.

[merrily]

109. Yeah, I just saw it. I smiled.

See Reply #3 on this thread:

http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?2953-Daily-Holidays-January-24&p=16743#post16743

[Bjornsdotter]

131. Same....

.....I vote for the candidate.

[karynnj]

17. I have never heard of anyone doing this WHILE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT

NOT ever - even people who worked hard in other years to find and support candidates. As to raising money - I got a DSCC mailing from .... Bernie Sanders, asking for money for them.

[hrmjustin]

22. Hillary raised 18 million for the party while raising money for herself.

Sanders raised none. Look it up.

[karynnj]

24. Sanders raised more than none -- I know for a fact :)

What I said she did not do is to recruit people for other offices.

As to raising money, she had BIG very high price fundraisers and AFTER attendees maxed out to her , additional money went to the party.

The party incidentally did a HUGE amount for her and Bill over the years - so it has not been all one way.

[hrmjustin]

25. My point still stands.

[merrily]

60. No.

[hrmjustin]

69. Yes.

[merrily]

83. No. DWS does not want money Sanders raises precisely so that you can make the claim you're making.

Therefore, the claim is misleading. You should stop making it.

[hrmjustin]

86. Prove this!

[merrily]

89. Search DU yourself. I've retired from doing searches for Hillary Supporters.

You spend time finding a link and all they do is slink silently away and, more than likely, repeat the claim somewhere else. Fucking waste of time.

[hrmjustin]

92. In other words you can't prove it.

Keep going with the conspiracy theories for your candidate.


Keep going if you like. Last word and all.

[merrily]

96. Is this thread your idea of never replying to me again?

[bvf]

26. My mail carrier isn't interested in doing his job.

If he were, he would have shoveled the snow from my driveway in order to get to my mailbox.

[beam me up scottie]

40. LOL!

These ops and talking points get more tedious and absurd every day.

[bvf]

120. I think there must actually be

a CliffsNotes version of the talking points, if that's possible. Readers of those seem to be stuck on vacuities like, "My point stands," or "That's your opinion," whenever someone comes back with, you know, an actual response.

[beam me up scottie]

121. I agree.

I've asked several posters to explain the daily poutrage in detail but they never get beyond the talking point.

At this point GDP is a giant food fight.

[workinclasszero]

37. Bernie Sanders is a party of

one.

Always has been, always will be.

[hrmjustin]

42. He has no business as our nominee.

[beam me up scottie]

48. HOW DARE HE ???

[Paulie]

122. Even if he earns it by getting the most votes? Democratic votes???

[hrmjustin]

123. If he wins he wins.

I'm just stating my opinion.

[Paulie]

124. Given that will you vote for him???

Or will you do the unthinkable and stay home, or vote for Bloomberg????

[hrmjustin]

125. I thought you guys hated loyalty oaths!

I have made clear a 1000 times I will vote for the nominee.

[Paulie]

126. But you said he doesn't deserve it. Meaning if he earns it he's illegitimate

I want to really understand your opinion. Thanks!!!

[hrmjustin]

127. My point is I don't think he deserves the nomination.

[bkkyosemite]

129. Who are you to say that. He has people. Who do you mean

when you say "our"

[hrmjustin]

130. I have the right to my opinion.

That is allowed you know.

[Larkspur]

50. The Clintons help destroy the Democratic Party

When Bill was President the Dems lost Congress until 2006 when Dems rejected the Clinton platform. Obama stocked his Admin with Clintonistas and he too lost Congress for the Dems in 2010. We don't know when or if we will get it back. Thanks to Clinton philosophy, the Democratic Party is in the minority in most states in the US.

[hrmjustin]

51. .

[DaGimpster]

54. Can you elaborate?

Bernie last night repeated an often used phrase. If people want change, we have to stand with him en masse. I take that as an explicit push for down-ticket candidates.

[hrmjustin]

64. Then he should raise money for the DNC's victory fund which helps local candidates.

Hillary raised 18 million for them in the 4th quarter. Sanders raised none.

[DaGimpster]

76. I have and will continue to donate to The Democratic Party, and I support Sanders.

On this we will have to agree to disagree, and I don't choose my political candidates on their ability (or inability) to host exclusive fundraisers.

[merrily]

55. We've been over this bs. DWS doesn't want his money.

[hrmjustin]

66. No you have been busy making excuses for him.

[merrily]

75. Um, no. By "we" I meant DU, not me personally.

Sorry if you see using facts to refute false charges against Bernie as "making excuses for him.

Truth matters, though obviously not to everyone.

[hrmjustin]

77. The truth is Hillary raised 18 million for the DNC victory fund in the 4th quarter and Sanders

raised none.


You can't dispute that!

[John Poet]

56. So, how many candidates has Hillary recruited?

It's not as if the Clintons were ever interested in helping anything than themselves.

[hrmjustin]

71. Yet she raised 18 million for the victory fund in the 4th quarter and sanders raised none.

Go figure!

[John Poet]

81. Again, how many candidates has Hillary recruited?

Since you don't want to answer the question I asked, I'll take a stab at it...

Exactly zero?

[hrmjustin]

84. In her career. Plenty.

[bvf]

133. And yet you're at a complete loss to name one.

I know: Dog ate your CliffsNotes, right?

[kennetha]

58. He might even

Join the party. Just saying.

[hrmjustin]

74. Good point.

[Trajan]

7. This is really ALL I have to see of you

You apparently don't agree with the New Deal/Great Society policIes we inherited ...

What more do I need to know about you? ... The one greatest chance we've had in a generation (Hell - THREE generations) ... And you curse the very person who embodies the hope of tens of millions to improve their lives ...

Just when DO you intend to support improving the lives of your fellow citizens?

Geezus F!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

19. I supported Dean in 2004. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. I hope he's not "the second coming of Obama".

I'd much rather have a Socialist as president rather than another centrist.

[mythology]

21. That would be unfortunate

It would be bad for his campaign, but also it would be detrimental to growing the party as a whole.

[BlueCaliDem]

29. He can't have a political revolution with the same congresscritters in Congress.

What has he or his supporters done to change that?

[DaGimpster]

65. Speaking as a Sanders supporter

I will be supporting & voting for all down-ticket Democrats on my ballot come this November. What else should *I* be doing?

[BlueCaliDem]

110. As a Sanders supporter

get out there and organize with fellow Sanders supporters to put progressives on the ballot in your respective States. Yeah, I know. It costs a crap load of money, but if you want a revolution, that's what it's going to take - money.

Voting for every down-ticket Democrat will NOT help start Bernie's revolution. He needs a new Congress - and he needs majorities.

To date, Sanders has done nada to recruit candidates who will help him push his ambitious agenda through Congress which tells me he's not as into this revolution as he wants his supporters to believe. He's in it for himself.

Hillary Clinton raised $18 million for down-ticket Democrats. To date, Bernie has raised a giant goose egg. Nada. Zilch. Again, that tells me he's in this for himself, not for you or for anyone else. For himself.

[draa]

78. Here, we've even made a list.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MZGzbSWESE8t18GGzrgc2FfL0b5tz-vmNf-F_-w5yN4/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

And that's just the start. By the way, you don't change anything in an instant. It takes time.

[BlueCaliDem]

112. Excellent list!

So how much has Sanders raised for them? It takes money to run for office...lots of it. How much has he thus far raised for those Sanders Democrats?

By the way, you don't change anything in an instant. It takes time.

I know that. So I ask you...in light of his ambition to run for the White House, what has Sanders done these past 25 years in Congress to help push for more progressive candidates for Congress who will help him push his ambitious socialist agenda through? How are you organizing this? Fundraising?

[draa]

114. On both questions you can either look them up or email Bernie for the answer.

Goggle is a good place to start.

[BlueCaliDem]

118. I was hoping you'd tell me. But it's okay. I already know the answer

to them both. And it's about as much as he's fundraised for down-ticket Democrats.

Hillary Clinton is America's best choice for president. Even President Obama, the best president of my lifetime, agrees.

[draa]

119. I didn't need to hear the Hillary commercial because I've heard it enough.

Let me say this as a US Navy Veteran. Clinton disqualified herself the second she sided with George W Bush and the Iraq War. Nothing she's accomplished since means shit to the dead soldiers from that War. Nothing. She will never be President because of that. No one has forgotten.

Their voice may be silent but their spirit lives on with the friends they left behind. I am their voice.

[BlueCaliDem]

134. Not a commercial. Truth. But I guess you're not into that. Oh well. Can't talk to a closed mind.

She didn't "side with" G.W. Bush. She sided with her constituents - the ones hardest hit in New York and who wanted retribution. She didn't support war - she supported a bill that would force Saddam Hussein to the table in order to allow the inspectors back into Iraq. You do know he had kicked them out years before, right?

I know you're using that excuse because it fits the narrative of Bernie supporters' "ABC" attitude. But you know what? President Obama sides with her, and trusted her enough to make her his Secretary of State. And I'll choose to rely and trust his judgment of Hillary Clinton over an anonymous poster on some message board who'll use any and all excuses to vote against Hillary Clinton rather than vote for another candidate.

And as for all those deaths in Iraq, it's tragic as hell, but that vote wasn't a vote for war - something she makes very clear in her speech on the Senate floor. That vote was to get Saddam Hussein to allow the inspectors back into Iraq. Bush didn't need the 2002 AUMF Against Iraq bill. He had everything he needed in the 2001 AUMF Against Terrorists to launch an attack on Iraq - and Sanders voted for that bill.

Finally, let me say this about your preferred candidate. His FIVE votes AGAINST the Brady bill, his vote to give gun manufacturers, gun sellers, and gun distributors legal immunity, and his vote to allow guns on AmTrak - they are despicable and unforgivable. If you're really so concerned about deaths, realize that your preferred candidate, from his cushy seat in Congress, voted for an industry that is responsible for more deaths since 1968 in this country than ALL WARS COMBINED - and that includes the Civil War.

I don't know of any Liberal, Socialist, or even Democrat who calls themselves "liberal" who would side so strongly with the NRA the way this so-called Democratic Socialist had.

I see you chose the great and late Senator Paul Wellstone as your avatar. Would you be interested to know that he truly was a liberal to admire. He was also the loudest opponent to the 1998 H.R. 629, the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal Compact Consent Act - the bill to dump nuclear waste in a tiny, impoverished Spanish-speaking town in Texas that both Gov. G.W. Bush and U.S. Rep. B. Sanders deemed a "sacrifice zone".

In 1998, Wellstone decried the dump as "part of a 'national pattern of discrimination in the location of waste and pollution' that preyed on those lacking political clout and financial resources."

Bernie supported it and fought for it, and actively lobbied Gov. G.W. Bush for it. What a liberal, huh?

[Autumn]

31. After reading your OP where you trash a gracious man who admires Obama I can see you

are an expert at baloney.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

36. I explained my situation to you in du mail. You banned me from the Bernie group remember?

I basically begged you on my knees, too. Btw, nice to see you in GDP. I see you don't mind a little mud.

[Autumn]

103. I am often in GDP, probably most of my posting is here. Yes I did block you from the Sanders group.

When you go into a protected group for supporters of Bernie Sanders and demand apologies from the Bernie supporters who "criticized" Hillary Clinton odds are very high you are going to get blocked from that group.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

107. Autumn, please stop acting like you don't know what I am talking about.

I offered to take a probationary period and not post anything negative on Bernie Sanders for a month. You rejected it outright and crushed my hopes. You wouldn't see me posting all these articles in GDP, if you gave me a second chance.

[Autumn]

111. And I told you no I wouldn't unblock you.

I will say it took Chutzpah to offer to not post anything negative on Bernie for a whole month in a protected group for Bernie.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

113. No, I said I would stop posting anything negative in GDP for a whole month. Read the du mails. nt

[Autumn]

115. You don't support Bernie, you don't need to post in the Bernie Sanders group.

That group is for supporters of Bernie Sanders.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

117. Are we still on friendly terms or are we going to let this little flare up split us up? nt

[JI7]

32. he is right and he knows what he needs to win and what is possible

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Of course Hillary already didn't get as many votes as Obama in Iowa '08.

Which seems to be worth mentioning in this context.

[pangaia]

44. You actually made an OP out of all this?

Wow.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

49. Thank you :). nt

[cali]

52. What a steaming load of made up bullshit. How predictable.

How hillarian.

[frazzled]

62. How is quoting Sander's own words tantamount to

making up bullshit?

[cali]

70. Oh, so these are Bernie's words:

Right there in the op.

Bernie goes on and on how he is going to have a political revolution and this is how he is going to get Democrats elected to Governorships, Congress, and etc. He keeps repeating how he has received more contributions than Obama. He implies that he is the second coming of Obama. Seems like a bunch of baloney.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

80. In the latest breaking news forum they have a section to add your comments.

In GDP that format hasn't been implemented yet. Can you give me some slack?

[cali]

88. I fail to see what that has to do with anything

Obviously I knew those were your words not Bernie's, and frankly, you seem to be someone more interested in starting flame wars than intelligent discourse.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

91. I feel like we are on the same side, but talking past each other. nt

[frazzled]

93. Everyone is entitled to their opinion in interpreting candidates' statements and actions

You seem to be quite content to sit back and accept numerous posts that label Clinton a liar, corrupt, etc.—hyperbolic calumnies I see every day and pass up even commenting on because, you know, you can't argue with bullies or zealots, so it's hardly worth the time. Indeed, I have posted here very rarely over these past months.

Yet you can't take one itty bit of criticism of your candidate. He's not perfect, as you must certainly know in your heart of hearts. No one is. (Think of the support he has lent to the captive insurance "offshore" tax schemes that have become a mainstay in your state (yes, he defended them against IRS attempts to tighten regulations), or his admission in the third debate that he reversed his position on gun issues because he lost his first election when he tried to support sensible gun measures.) Step away from the pedestal and focus on realities. And accept that people say stuff during elections. Incessant threads with false presuppositions to be defended, and name-calling people who express their opinions are ... inappropriate.

[Iggy Knorr]

82. Proud to be

something something

[ProudToBeLiberal]

87. Proud to be

bonafide liberal.

[MoonRiver]

85. Bernie got one thing right!

[Gothmog]

98. So the revolution predicted by Sanders is not going to happen?

[arcane1]

102. Wow, this is the level of nit-picking people are reduced to?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

105. I know right? A lot of Bernie supporters in this thread are nit-picking over my comments. nt

[unc70]

108. Remember Edwards came in second in Iowa

I suspect Sanders was just being modest and keeping expectations lower.

[riversedge]

128. Sure would like to know that his internal polls say.

[Dawson Leery]

132. So do I.

Obama's campaign was exceptional and he had a positive if not somewhat unrealistic message.
Still Bernie is bitter. Bitter does not win.

[Beacool]

135. Me three.