Nothing illustrates how the party has shifted right like the cry "No raising taxes!"

[cali]

suddenly spilling bounteously o'er the lips of of Hillary's surrogates in Congress. (And she does have a lot of them). Nothing like boxing us in. And nothing like hampering any effort of a democratic president, even when it comes to raising income taxes on the extremely wealthy, which is as far as Hillary is willing to tread. And forget trying to raise the cap on Social Security, not that Hillary supports the best way to fortify it.

[arcane1]

1. Especially when they DISHONESTLY omit any mention of insurance premiums going away.

Classic right-wing strategy, classic right-wing lies, in Congress and right here on DU.

"Whatever It Takes" indeed! Whatever it takes to protect the insurance lobby.

[sadoldgirl]

2. Totally understandable.

Most, if not all, Democratic members in Congress
need money for their reelections.

Today that is the norm.

I never believed that they would be of any help
to Bernie, unless their constituents pressure
them to do so.That is our job, imo.

[hoosierlib]

18. Word...

As Bernie says, we need a revolution...

[HereSince1628]

3. Norquist democrats. It's just pragmatic to not raise taxes

Some democrats run in districts where Norquist's Pledge is the 11th commandment.

[cali]

8. Norquist Democrats. I love that

[Ferd Berfel]

9. It's just "pragmatic"

lol

[Ferd Berfel]

11. Here's the Problem

Priorities

[AlbertCat]

22. Really.

I wonder how many useless Soviet Era military contractors could be shifted to...oh I dunno... infrastructure work?

Making corporations pay their taxes (lower the corporate tax rate to Europe's level... but then make them PAY it, not get out of it with loopholes.) and maybe even taxing Church property (perhaps at a lower rate than any ol' property if you must) and we'll have plenty of dough to do what needs to be done.

[draa]

30. There's a number of ways to raise money.

One that I would like to see is a higher extraction tax on natural resources on public land. We give away the mineral wealth of our citizens to corporations who the destroy the land and leave massive clean up costs mainly footed by taxpayers. Just raise extractions fees.

[EndElectoral]

4. Yeah, we'd rather keep going into deeper and deeper debt to China. Have wars with no tax increases

It's actually become insanity, and HRC's cries about this is deceptive since taxpayers are saving significant amounts on insurance premiums.

[Punkingal]

5. You are so right...insanity is the word!

[farleftlib]

7. That debt is a ticking time bomb

it keeps me up some nights.

[Ed Suspicious]

13. Really?

[Fuddnik]

26. Somebody put a pea under your mattress?

[frylock]

40. hmmmnn..

?1307468855

[LWolf]

6. Read their lips. nt

[Uncle Joe]

10. The curtain has been drawn back.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

[m-lekktor]

12. I agree. nt

[WillyT]

14. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[blackspade]

15. Nothing like taking a quote out of context.

Typical of 1%ers, especially when the tax increase comes from them.

[raindaddy]

16. Didn't the party protect Bush tax cuts and push cuts in Social Security?

And they smugly expect support from the left because we have no place to go....

[elmac]

17. The corporatist dems are right wing

and they speak republican. Its time for new leadership, its time for President Sanders.

[hoosierlib]

20. Amen...

[jalan48]

19. Republican Lite.

Liberal on social issues, conservative on economic ones. Hillary didn't get those millions in speaking fees because of her oratorical skills.

[Recursion]

21. I can't think of a Democratic President who ran on raising taxes

I can think of a couple of Democratic Presidential candidates who did and never became President.

For instance, FDR said in his 1932 nomination address:

I know something of taxes. For three long years I have been going up and down this country preaching that Government--Federal and State and local--costs too much. I shall not stop that preaching. As an immediate program of action we must abolish useless offices. We must eliminate unnecessary functions of Government--functions, in fact, that are not definitely essential to the continuance of Government. We must merge, we must consolidate subdivisions of Government, and, like the private citizen, give up luxuries which we can no longer afford.

http://newdeal.feri.org/speeches/1932b.htm

I can't find a JFK quote on taxes from the 1960 campaign, but in 1963 (pretty clearly with an eye to 1964) JFK pushed through the largest tax cut in US history (over Republican objections about its effect on the deficit) arguing that "a rising tide lifts all boats"

http://www.jfklibrary.org/JFK/JFK-in-History/JFK-on-the-Economy-and-Taxes.aspx

Carter ran on "simplifying" taxes, and refused to release a tax plan during the campaign. Once in office, he said to Congress,

Under this tax program, virtually all Americans will receive substantial tax relief, principally through a simple, across-the-board reduction in personal tax rates. Lower withholding rates will be put into effect October 1, 1978, and taxpayers will experience an increase in take-home pay and purchasing power as of that date.

The typical taxpayer in all income classes up to $100,000 will pay lower taxes. But the bulk of relief has been targeted to low and middle-income taxpayers.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=31055

Clinton ran on cutting taxes for households making $80K or less (That's about $135K in current dollars) and raising them on households making $200K (that's $335K today) or more.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/us/the-1992-campaign-taxes-clinton-promises-to-protect-middle-class-on-taxes.html

[JonLeibowitz]

27. Generally speaking, presidents don't "run on raising taxes"

They run on individual programs, and society gets to determine if the benefit to the country is worth the tax hit.

Pundits like to corner politicians with questions like "will taxes be raised", when the answer is more complex. If I raise your taxes by $10 but cut $12 of your nondiscretionary expenses, you would probably think of that as money saved. Pundits disagree, and would like to focus on the $10.

[draa]

34. People are also misrepresenting his platform in general.

People are taking one part of his platform and using it to represent the whole. That's completely disingenuous.

If you add everything together, from a higher minimum wage, to the free tuition, to the pre-K childcare, to the health care plan, to the jobs program, and so on, it's a net plus for everyone. And there's numerous plans like that in his platform so picking one is useless without adding them all to the picture. Of course many people are short sighted so they simply ignore the whole.

[salib]

32. Ok, so the quote you have from FDR s about reducing waste.

It is a real right-wing way of thinking that would associate that with lower taxes. It is almost dog whistle quality. i believe that what FDR was doing there was assuaging those fears that have been programmed into conservatives. Trying to nip it in the bud.

It does not mean he was running on lower taxes, but was reminding people that he would spend those high marginal tax rates efficiently. Which is reasonable.

Also, the argument that JFK "pushed through the largest tax cut in US history", didn't just about every president from Reagan on claim exactly that same thing?

Taxes are how one pays for things and is also how we equalize the inequalities in income and wealth distribution. These are positive things that must be done. Hiding from it or selectively picking quotes that vaguely hint at right-wing talking points to claim one cannot talk about a progressive tax policy is cleverly cynical, but quite counter-productive to our society.

[Recursion]

35. "Just one word or two on taxes"

That's literally how the paragraph starts.

It does not mean he was running on lower taxes

But he was. He ran on lowering income taxes and repealing prohibition to raise revenue through excises on liquor. In the result, he wound up raising taxes (or rather Congress did right before his first term started), which leads to another point: we can raise taxes, we just can't run on it beforehand.

didn't just about every president from Reagan on claim exactly that same thing?

Sure; and with a constantly-growing economy it's nearly always true. I still think the 1963 tax cut was the largest in proportion to GDP at the time ever (I'll have to check to be sure).

Hiding from it or selectively picking quotes that vaguely hint at right-wing talking points

This should be easy to demonstrate, then: find me a quote from a successful Democratic Presidential candidate promising tax increases on incomes below the top 5%.

(You can successfully run on taxing very very rich people, like Clinton did).

[jeff47]

37. So....did you forget to read the last paragraph of your own post?

Clinton ran on cutting taxes for households making $80K or less (That's about $135K in current dollars) and raising them on households making $200K (that's $335K today) or more.

Hmm...that looks an awful lot like a Democrat running on raising taxes.

Also, Obama ran on letting the Bush tax cuts expire. That also looks an awful lot like a Democrat running on raising taxes.

[Recursion]

38. Did you forget to read the first paragraph of mine?

I said you can run on raising them for very very rich people.

(OK, sorry, that was a post upthread, not the same post. Still.)

[jeff47]

39. You mean exactly what Sanders is doing?

Or are we going to pretend making more than ~90% of workers means you are not rich?

[Recursion]

41. 2.2% across the board payroll levy (nt)

[jeff47]

42. Replacing a >2.2% across the board payroll levy to insurance companies.

The horror. The horror.

[questionseverything]

43. it is about the same as the penalty now

the difference is people would actually be getting healthcare for it

[Recursion]

48. Would they? Will doctors and hospitals be legally required to accept Medicare For All?

Because that's the only way that would actually guarantee health care, and Sanders hasn't said that.

[questionseverything]

49. i always thought the only mandate should of been docs have to treat regardless of the ability to

pay

shame we even have to say that now...when i was young every doc was there to help people not to just get rich

[Fuddnik]

23. Yep, Republicans policies and dogma all the way. Now Pelosi is parroting it.

A few years back, I was at a Republican Congresswoman's Town Hall meeting, doing some oppo research for her opponent.

I managed to get a question in on raising or eliminating the SS cap. She told me point blank that there was no way Congress would approve removing the cap or even raising it. At the time they were making about $160,000 per year. She said that they would be raising their own taxes, and they weren't about to do that.

Lyndon Johnson once said that the American people don't mind paying taxes, as long as they feel that they're getting their moneys worth. Republicans, New Dems, DLCers, and Clintonites all have one thing in common. They try to gut programs to make them fail. Then rail against "Big Government".

As Bernie say, "It's time to make government work for the people again.

[RiverLover]

24. THIS

Thank you Clintons, for infiltrating our party with your rethug ways.

[salib]

25. Exactly.

Let's just keep taxes at a level that Bush and Reagan set. Sure, that is so Democratic.

-end sarcasm-

[Hoyt]

28. Nothing wrong with raising taxes on everyone. But, that platform ain't gonna win an election.

[EndElectoral]

46. We're already raising taxes on the children of everyone. It's called debt. Interest is a tax.

[cascadiance]

47. But you are LOWERING overall taxes when you lower CORPORATE TAXES people pay more than other taxes!

such as payroll taxes and get more service for it in the end. You get rid of corporate taxation if people don't have to pay for health insurance premiums any more. Don't know how often that has to be said to be understood. But it keeps getting conveniently IGNORED by some, as if they feel that we can't take the money the insurance company are in effect taking from us, when average Americans don't have the advantages that people on Medicare already have just because of their lower age.

[redstateblues]

29. Any Democrat foolish enough to run on raising taxes

Will suffer the same fate as former democratic nominee Walter Mondale. He won one state, his home state of Minnesota. It's political suicide.

[QC]

31. Such a blast from the past!

[Truprogressive85]

33. Lol We are becoming the Party of Bush

[BeanMusical]

36. Kick and R

[MisterP]

44. they benefit from the government disinvestment in America

[cascadiance]

45. Yep! It really exposes the closet Republicans!