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Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:11 PM

 

So about that whole "socialism" thing

While in another discussion on here I happened upon this article.
Apparently some people think "socialism" is a horrible thing however we already have it here in America and it's pretty entrenched.

Public schools? Socialism.
Medicare/Medicaid? Socialism.
The highway system that Ike built? Socialism.
National Parks? Socialism.
Post office? Socialism.
Social security? Socialism.
Police & Fire? Socialism.
Libraries? Socialism.
Your local rec center? Socialism.

So, Bernie is a socialist you say? And? I would urge you to read this.
The days of the cold war are looooong over and the red army isn't going to invade us and there won't be any duck & cover drills at noon.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/3/29/1078852/-75-Ways-Socialism-Has-Improved-America
75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

41 replies, 4885 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply So about that whole "socialism" thing (Original post)
pinebox Jan 2016 OP
ypsfonos Jan 2016 #1
pinebox Jan 2016 #5
Hoyt Jan 2016 #2
pinebox Jan 2016 #8
farleftlib Jan 2016 #3
pinebox Jan 2016 #7
Renew Deal Jan 2016 #4
pinebox Jan 2016 #6
Renew Deal Jan 2016 #9
pinebox Jan 2016 #10
elias49 Jan 2016 #11
Renew Deal Jan 2016 #12
RobertEarl Jan 2016 #13
Paka Jan 2016 #14
Lordquinton Jan 2016 #19
Paka Jan 2016 #26
Lordquinton Jan 2016 #29
democrank Jan 2016 #15
tecelote Jan 2016 #16
TryLogic Jan 2016 #17
TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #18
FairWinds Jan 2016 #20
Festivito Jan 2016 #21
wilt the stilt Jan 2016 #37
Festivito Jan 2016 #38
sprts Jan 2016 #22
Curmudgeoness Jan 2016 #25
sprts Jan 2016 #31
FairWinds Jan 2016 #40
pinebox Jan 2016 #33
SHRED Jan 2016 #23
dubyadiprecession Jan 2016 #24
Iggy Knorr Jan 2016 #27
guillaumeb Jan 2016 #28
Eric J in MN Jan 2016 #30
MasonDreams Jan 2016 #32
stonecutter357 Jan 2016 #34
LS_Editor Jan 2016 #35
MasonDreams Jan 2016 #36
FairWinds Jan 2016 #39
Gothmog Jan 2016 #41

Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:14 PM

1. Oh Yeah!

 


Let's improve it some MORE!

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Response to ypsfonos (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:26 PM

5. Yup!

 

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:18 PM

2. In America, nearly everyone supports socialist programs, just don't call it that.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:27 PM

8. The times they are a changing

 

The largest voting block is now millennials, they didn't grow up really in the cold war era. Think about that for a minute.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:24 PM

3. whenever someone starts bellyaching about paying taxes

 

I always tell them there are places they can go where they won't have to pay any taxes, their ears perk up, then I tell them all the things on your list that they will not enjoy anymore and that shuts them right up.

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Response to farleftlib (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:26 PM

7. heh yup I do the same

 

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:25 PM

4. That's why Lawrence O'Donnell calls republicans socialists.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:26 PM

6. Which makes no sense UNLESS

 

he's referring to Ike era republicans.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:48 PM

9. His point is that republicans have helped put a lot of these things in place AND

They don't seriously try to repeal them. They vote to maintain the socialist state.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:50 PM

10. Gotchya

 

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:55 PM

11. Hell yeah. The Repubs love their health care,

 

their Social Security...but only for themselves. Not everyone. I think from the Republican eye, everybody else is inferior. A little less than human. Not worthy of a decent life.
Bunch of arrogant people.

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Response to elias49 (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:07 PM

12. And there's plenty of examples. Craig T. Nelson, the Bundy clan, etc.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:13 PM

13. Yep

 

So what we now lack are good socialist managers of our socialism.

For the most part the congress and administration are socialism deniers and they make a mess of our socialism.

Bernie is a true believer in our socialism and he wants us to democratically work in unison to improve what little socialism we have.

That's why Bernie is the best choice.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:18 PM

14. K&R

Call me socialist and I am proud to say YES. I love all those socialist "unicorn" things.

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Response to Paka (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:57 PM

19. I'm not a Socalist

I'm a unicorn!

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:50 PM

26. Unicorns are socialist!

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Response to Paka (Reply #26)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:56 PM

29. I need a browser filter to replace words

to change all instances of Socialist to Unicorn.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:26 PM

15. K & R

Vote for Bernie

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:47 PM

16. Thanks!

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:48 PM

17. Some of my favorites:

Credit unions, employee owned business, city owned utilities, Medicare, Social Security. Just to name a few.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:54 PM

18. K & R !

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:00 PM

20. A Really Biggie, not mentioned yet . .

 

is public water and sewer systems.

They have done far more to protect us, and improve and lengthen our quality of life
than all the militaristic adventurers put together.

No joke, before we had this on Western Lake Erie we had periodic ginormous cholera epidemics. They used to call it "Lake Fever," and took until the middle 1800's or later to figure out what caused it. (Read the Ghost Map.)

Instead of Veterans Day, we should have Water Treatment Workers Day.

PAX, Veterans For Peace

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:16 PM

21. I think there's MORE:

Women's right to vote -- socialism
40-hour work week -- socialism
time-and-a-half for overtime -- socialism
Unemployment insurance -- socialism
5 of 7 day workweek -- socialism
Holidays off -- socialism
Vacation time off -- socialism
Sick days paid -- socialism
Maternity leave -- socialism

...that's enough for now. All of these are things conservatives have opposed.

If not for society's known acceptance of these things, businesses would prefer not to give them and the rest of us would not be able to fight for them.

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Response to Festivito (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:35 PM

37. none of those things are socialism

 

those are rights or employee rights but they are not socialism.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Reply #37)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:43 PM

38. Wrong. They all are. They all affect the means of production.

For example: no vacation time, 2 weeks of vacation, or 5 weeks of vacation as in Sweden, 6 weeks minimum somewhere else. Because of socialism.

Did you notice that we don't have what you call a right to a minimum of 5 weeks of vacation?

Want to try one at a time?

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:34 PM

22. You really should understand the definition

 

of socialism before you pen such an ignorant thread. The definition of socialism is - according to Websters dictionary - when the government controls the means of production. At no time has Bernie presented this as his position. Social security, public education and every other program you mention are all social programs and not socialism.

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Response to sprts (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:43 PM

25. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.

Pulling the definition of "socialism" doesn't explain his position. From his own mouth:

Sanders joked about the negative connotation of the word “socialist” in the United States.

"I don’t believe government should take over the grocery store down the street or own the means of production," he said. "But I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of this country deserve a decent standard of living and that their incomes should go up and not down.”


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sanders-means-democratic-socialism/story?id=35315871

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #25)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:56 PM

31. And in his own words he admits he is not a socialist.

 

He simply supports social programs, which only enhances my statement and certainly supports the idea that Bernie supports social programs and not socialism. The term socialist democracy does not mean socialism. Words have meaning so please respect that.

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Response to sprts (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:04 AM

40. Please do not be a jerk . .

 

See me post below.

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Response to sprts (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:02 PM

33. Excuse me?

 

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:39 PM

23. Socialize YES...Privatize NO

 

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:40 PM

24. Bernie, shite or get off the pot!

Make a commitment bernie, Join the Democratic party ALREADY! If not, join the socialist party of america, they will let you naturally run in their party.
We don't need to be highjacked like the republicans are with their tea party and libertarian infiltrators using it as their vehicle for election.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:50 PM

27. K&R

 

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:51 PM

28. Socialism ends in "ism".

Just like communism. So any word ending in "ism" must be bad.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:56 PM

30. Bernie Sanders doesn't consider the US a socialist country.

He's noted that the New Deal was denounced as "socialist" at the time. But he says the we need economic security for the US to be socialist.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:59 PM

32. Where do you REALLY experience socialist society?

I remember my days in the U S Army well. I felt warmth, love, & secure in Uncle Sam's embrace. This is NOT sarcasm! Just imagine it. Food, clothing, shelter, protection, employment, medical, dental, education, transportation, & social network ALL provided by Government. ..pause for thought.. SOCIALISM bad? I think not.
Ask any qualified scientist, ( Anthropologist, Psychologist, Biologist) & they"ll tell you.
WE HUMANS are VERY SOCIAL Animals!!!
DOWN IN MY DNA!!!
I AM FEELIN' THE BERN!!!

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:08 PM

34. according to fox news democratic socialist = communist !

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:10 PM

35. Damn right.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:13 PM

36. Bernie's Democratic socialism

Democratic means the people can choose to support or reject, create or destroy these demonized social institutions.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:03 AM

39. Hey Mr. SPRTS . .

 

Who are you, the word police?

Using your lightweight definition, not even Cuba is socialist because
the government there does NOT own all the means of production.

Try to be a bit more open minded.

So, try this: If an institution is owned by all, and all pay for its maintenance,
and if its benefits are equally available to all - then it is part of the socialist
sector of the economy - K-12 schools, libraries, parks (national and otherwise),
social security, Medicare (FOR ALL!), like that . .

PS - I have a Ph.D. in Political Philosophy so don't try to throw your weight
around like some of know-it-all, OK?

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:57 PM

41. And yet these two terms do not poll well

The terms "Socialist" and "Socialism" do not poll well and will be easy to use in attack ads.
From Pew http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/



The word ‘socialism’ triggers a negative reaction for most Americans, but certainly not for all. Six-in-ten (60%) people say they have a negative reaction to the word, while just 31% have a positive reaction. Those numbers are little changed from April 2010....

By contrast, socialism is a far more divisive word, with wide differences of opinion along racial, generational, socioeconomic and political lines. Fully nine-in-ten conservative Republicans (90%) view socialism negatively, while nearly six-in-ten liberal Democrats (59%) react positively. Low-income Americans are twice as likely as higher-income Americans to offer a positive assessment of socialism (43% among those with incomes under $30,000, 22% among those earning $75,000 or more).



From Gallop http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/Socialism-Viewed-Positively-Americans.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of "socialism," while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives.



....Socialism

Socialism had the lowest percentage positive rating and the highest negative rating of any term tested. Still, more than a third of Americans say they have a positive image of socialism.

Exactly how Americans define "socialism" or what exactly they think of when they hear the word is not known. The research simply measures Americans' reactions when a survey interviewer reads the word to them -- an exercise that helps shed light on connotations associated with this frequently used term.

There are significant differences in reactions to "socialism" across ideological and partisan groups:

A majority of 53% of Democrats have a positive image of socialism, compared to 17% of Republicans.
Sixty-one percent of liberals say their image of socialism is positive, compared to 39% of moderates and 20% of conservatives

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