2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary REFUSES to release her transcripts, and I will REFUSE to vote for her.
At the town hall she just said she won't release anything unless all the others, INCLUDING THE REPUBLICANS do.
She keeps going on about her record, so why doesnt she show it? If she doesn't have the character and integrity to be open and honest with follow Democrats, then I will not vote for her, even in a general.. Quite frankly, it's insulting to the voters and my intelligence. Good luck Hill.
I just can't cast a vote for the lesser of the two evils, not this time.
Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)And why should she give away a product that people are willing to pay handsomely for?
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Occasionally minimum wage. Maybe if we give her the 12 dollars she supports raising it to she'll hand them over.
Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)Jackilope
(819 posts)Cheering them on and making sure their greedy little noggin could sleep at night -- despite their role in bringing despair to those hurt by their greed and recklessness.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)that was then, this is now.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Especially since so many people equate them as legalized bribes...
I've seen both Warren and Sanders rip the banksters a new one.. Not so much fromClinton..
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)A currency she is poor in.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
running for President of the United States?
Because she's doing this and telling us she doesn't have on Goldman Handcuffs.
Because presumably she won't be working giving paid speeches anymore. So why not give them away "free"?
Are our ethical standards so stunningly low at this point that because of money a candidate for the highest office in the land won't tell us what she said in speeches?
But maybe you jest.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Release them because we need an educated vote in the primary. We don't want to pick someone with too much baggage. No strategizing will push out people's anger at the economic divide. The recovery is an illusion in their eyes. Staffers for Bernie told me Clinton campaign steamrolled votes in Nevada and that new videos will be coming out. And it will be ugly. On another note Clinton supporters are flagging and comment they can that doesn't support Hillary and just waits for a jury that has more Hillary supporters on the jury to get people banned. A 20% success rate can end up quickly getting commenting privileges frozen. Rigging the game once again. This is not how you win an election in the age of communication and social media. Might've worked 20 years ago.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)That is our money. It is now part of the national debt and the banks get to lend it back to us at high interest. She is profiting handsomely. That is why.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)involved for them and with them is my guess.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)Something Hillary has a hard time with.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I'm not buying that.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Says EVERYTHING Other Democrats need to know.
#FYI -- This is NOT the Hillary Group So You Have No Means To Kick Me Out Of Here....
MelSC
(256 posts)Nice fake outrage though
ram2008
(1,238 posts)MelSC
(256 posts)nt
ram2008
(1,238 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)triangulating and misdirecting.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)houston16revival
(953 posts)you're not fulfilling your duty as a citizen of this country any better
than all Senate Republicans who refuse to hold hearings and vote on
President Obama's Supreme Court Nominee.
They swore an oath on the Bible
to "well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter so help me God."
http://www.emailyoursenator.com/oath.html
Don't be like the Republicans
Get out and vote and prevent a Trump-Koch takeover of America
ram2008
(1,238 posts)houston16revival
(953 posts)if you allow the Supreme Court to slip away and be filled by President Rubio
because you won't vote Democratic in November
It's that simple
ram2008
(1,238 posts)I think Obama will get a nominee through before he leaves anyway
Sorry, you can vote for someone who doesn't want to be honest with you. I can't and I won't.
houston16revival
(953 posts)What you think doesn't matter when reality is totally different
Republicans have been clear, no votes, no hearings, no nominee
The Jan 3 scenario is pretty improbable too. We'd lose the filibuster
permanently in that happenstance
All politicians lie, just like doctors. Bernie lies all the time. That's what they're paid to do.
They have to lie and utter half truths so the public will believe them
jhart3333
(332 posts)Try taking it over to Free Republic.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Overlook all the bad things about her, cheating, lying, and just vote for her. She promises she'll tell us she's going to change, but we all have heard that before. She's all yours, I don't like being abused.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)Hillary 2016!
Because I've got mine!
...or something like that...
houston16revival
(953 posts)Parties support their candidates with discipline
That's why we keep losing, our members don't vote
And I am NOT in an abusive relationship
ram2008
(1,238 posts)Seems pretty indefensible to me.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)This!!!
Gene Debs
(582 posts)onecaliberal
(32,864 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Hillary co-founded the DLC with Koch Bros funding. They took over the Democratic Party in what Al From called 'a bloodless coup'.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)NowSam
(1,252 posts)and if staying home is a better choice to a person personally than it is their right and duty to vote the way the believe. Staying home is to vote "None of the above."
There is only one candidate in this race I can believe in and his name is Bernie Sanders.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...it really speaks to how little she respects the appearance of withholding them, and the voters who are legitimately concerned about it. Why vote for someone who doesn't respect you?
artislife
(9,497 posts)We don't care about Republican speeches, because we know how transparent they are on the subject. Their supporters would be proud of their words.
I think most of us would probably throw up at most of it and that is why she is doing this deflection.
She cannot answer in a way that seems like she isn't hiding anything. Squirrely.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)if they are just run of the mill speeches and nothing she needs to be ashamed of, why not put her voters minds at ease and release them. Maybe there is some information in there she doesn't want us to see.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Bernie still might not win South Carolina -- but he'll get closer and as for Super Tuesday -- Get Ready -- We Just Got A Race Thanks To Hillary.
She did herself NO FAVORS TONIGHT! The word on Twitter, Facebook and On Our Show (Podcast) This Evening Was PISSED at Hillary -- especially after she refused to release her transcripts.
It seems there's a never ending demand on Hillary that doesn't apply to anybody else.
Any excuse to make an ultimatum is how I see it.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)pengu
(462 posts)Bernie did it. Hillary's turn.
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Pauldg47
(640 posts)Your candidate will lose to Trump....
He will pry everything out of her in the General Election just like all the other Repuks. My God sir or ma'am Trumps leading her by over 5%. Please change your mind!!!
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I pledged to vote for Bernie should he be the nominee. It is YOUR people who are willing to let it go to Trump and sit out the vote.
Pauldg47
(640 posts)I'm pretty liberal and would have voted for Elizabeth Warren, but Bernie ran instead. I was a Republican and now I'm a 69 year old fart lib. Please don't vote for her! She's a very dangerous self serving opportunist. I know...I've followed this women since she was in her twenties.
An opportunist because when Bill had his exploitation with A very young Monica, Hillary turned her head. Now any other women would have divorced an asshole like that. But Hill had her eye on the whitehouse. She just rode his coat tails.
Point in being....she's a cold person and always has been.
Please, listen; you will make a regrettable mistake.?..please think hard about Bernie.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I remember being able to tell my boss to FUCK off and have another job before I even got home. Now we stay in hostile work environments with no voice.
The situation with Monica is a long discussion.. We had that Linda Tripp woman who also USED Monica. I don't know why Hillary stayed with Bill after all that but in the 90's and even today a lot of women and men stay in those situations. Monica was in love with Bill Clinton. She knew he was a married man. Yes, he used her for sex. I am not minimizing his behavior.. just noting a lot of people (including Bernie) had a high libido in their time.
Separation
(1,975 posts)You say:
Now any other women would have divorced an asshole like that. But Hill had her eye on the whitehouse. She just rode his coat tails.
This is just completely one hundred percent bullshit! There are plenty of men and women who have had an affair, and worked it out.
Let me take a line from you. You sound o!der, are you sure you are not going to vote for her because she is a woman? It sounds like you hold women in a pretty low regard with your comments.
BTW, I plan on voting for Bernie come super Tuesday.
Pauldg47
(640 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)... who actually believes she'd be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Goldman-Sachs to lambaste them?
The fact that such a transaction took place at all is appalling and should completely disqualify her from being considered an "honest broker" (!!) in dealing with rampant Wall Street corruption. The fact that she steadfastly refuses to release the transcripts suggests to me that they're even worse than we imagine.
However, even if she devoted her entire speech to reading nursery rhymes, it doesn't matter. She should've never made the speeches or taken the money in the first place. Her Nixonian stonewalling is a great big "f- you!" to people who are silly enough to worry about things like accountability and conflict of interest.
krawhitham
(4,644 posts)Having them leak in October will kill any chance of her winning
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)But taking money from special interests does affect the way political leaders act. It's not a controversial idea -- it's a simple truth of human nature. People are less inclined to act against the interests of people who pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars at a time. And getting personally paid huge amounts is not exactly the same as even receiving political donations as Obama did, as Clinton just claimed.
I'm struck not so much by the transcripts themselves -- which are going to come out at some point here. What we're eventually going to see is that she said something along the lines of what she said in 2007:
Clintons NASDAQ address amounted to essentially asking the financiers assembled to take voluntary action or else she would consider legislation to stop banks from kicking families out of their homes. But early on in the speech, Clinton placed equal blame for the subprime mortgage crisis on low-income homeowners alongside Wall Street.
Homebuyers who paid extra fees to avoid documenting their income should have known they were getting in over their heads, Clinton said.
http://usuncut.com/politics/video-surfaces-of-hillary-clinton-blaming-homeowners-for-financial-crisis/
We already know this is her point of view. In all likelihood she said a variety of similar things in her subsequent speeches.
But this is a very silly argument that cashing in on your political career with the private sector doesn't create any problem whatsoever for continuing that political career. This is why most high-profile politicos wait until their political career is over before going on the high-dollar speaking tour. Surely someone told her this would be a problem, and she brushed it off.
Nobody thinks that. She knows it's a problem, and visibly squirms when she's asked about it.
840high
(17,196 posts)Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Transcripts are off the radar for me. I have no strong feelings so it is safe to tell me why this is an issue for you. I would like to know.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)She is a fighter no doubt. I said I wouldn't vote for her in a general awhile ago, but she won me over again with the Benghazi hearings. But this whole transcript issue has lost me once again.
It's the hypocrisy of it:
She claims to fight for regular Americans and not the big banks, but she can't release what she said to those banks.
She wants to be about transparency, yet she can't release the transcripts.
She claims to be a progressive that can get things done, yet she can't take a second to release the transcripts.
It comes down to trust and this just kills it for me. The fact that she says until everyone does it is an enormous copout. Where there's smoke there's fire, and there's a whole lotta smoke.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)To her political persona.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)weeks ago. She knows, she knows.
33taw
(2,444 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)so then she'd have the choice of either releasing them or letting us consider how damning they might be.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Might be taken as too cute a response by the media. We'll see about that, and, more importantly, how the public weighs that statement.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)If she gave them "tough love" in those speeches she would release the transcripts to show she's tough on Wall St.
Since she refuses well then we all know why.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...the asses of the uber wealthy just won't come across as very Presidential...
Hillary 2016
Because I've got mine!
Response to ram2008 (Original post)
stopbush This message was self-deleted by its author.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...that her standard is What everyone else does, including tbe republicans!
Hillary 2016
Because.. I've got mine!
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)or no vote. It's simple, it's easily doable for her, that's what it's going to take to get my vote in the general. So we will see. I'm sure lots of people will feel the same way.
One page got leaked today and it was some major sucking up, so she'd better hurry up and release the rest because it would seem that a major leak is about to occur.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)as far as I'm concerned. This is a dim non-issue.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)You don't see the clear conflict of interest of Hillary claiming to want to regulate banks which paid her hundreds of thousands of speeches, and she won't even tell primary voters what she said to them? You don't see that character issue?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)The people pissy about transcripts are already in Camp Sanders anyways, and the rest (i.e. the majority of Democratic primary/caucus voters) see it as a non-issue. So why appease your opposition's hardcore supporters? Fuck em.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Or maybe not, if Bernie's numbers keep rising.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Orange Butterfly
(205 posts)I say, get over it and move on.
KPN
(15,646 posts)Seems to be an important issue for a lot of folks -- many Ds, Rs of course, and probably a majority of Is. People are fed up with the best democracy money can buy. If she can't deal with this concern effectively within the Party, how in the hell will she ever be able to in the GE? Unless she finds a way to deal with this conclusively, it's hard to see how she would be able to beat Trump -- even if most Bernie supporters voted for her.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)As thoroughly vetted as she should be considering this is her second presidential run, a few transcripts and some transparency would actually do her some good, unless it wouldn't!
Pharaoh
(8,209 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)d_b
(7,463 posts)Hillary serves herself, wealth, and privilege.
We know what she said.
forest444
(5,902 posts)I'm pretty sure that If Anonymous or anyone like that ever leaked those transcripts, Shillary wouldn't just have to end her White House bid. She'd have to leave the country outright.
Don Draper
(187 posts)It astonishes me that anyone claiming to be a progressive is backing her. This is an example of why people don't like her and think she corrupt. If Hillary gets the nomination, she will cost us the White House in the general election
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)A lot of her backers are progressive on one or two social issues, but after that they are solidly status quo conservative. They think of themselves as progressive, but it is self delusion.
lobodons
(1,290 posts)as does the SCOTUS Conservative Majority for the next 30 years.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)For nominating someone who is not honest with the American people.
We get the court we deserve.
lobodons
(1,290 posts)Think of the next generation and what a left of center SCOTUS will mean for them. This election is about more than you or me or either Bernie or Hillary. Its about the next generation and the issues that will effect their lives.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)I think Obama will get a justice through anyway- if he doesn't manage to by the end of his term, I still believe the Senate will be split (even if Hillary loses) meaning only a moderate judge will get through with the next Pres anyway.
Maybe after another four years of corporate governance, the Democratic party will wake up.
Beowulf
(761 posts)They need to put forward a candidate that has wider appeal. If it's truly about the next generation, why is the party elite so dismissive of them. It's the Party that's being selfish. They'd rather run a party insider who won't win than do what's necessary to put together a winning ticket.
And I don't have much confidence she would put up left of center judges.
840high
(17,196 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)Response to ram2008 (Original post)
CoffeeCat This message was self-deleted by its author.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)fierywoman
(7,686 posts)If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, I am also finding it really hard to follow the party line and vote for Hillary. I'm considering voting, in that case, for the other woman running for president:
http://www.jill2016.com/plan
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)with dozens if not hundreds of pages of quotes they could use out of context would be the dumbest move in the history of politics. She's much smarter than that.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)hard to tell which is the lesser of two evils thats the problem. Trump of the past is to her left of her past. todays BS meh don't really trust them I trust Trump to be further to the left than he's pretending and Hillary to be more to the Right than whats she's pretending.
question everything
(47,487 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)Not sure which is worse for the country.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)That is who she is: someone who does not want to be exposed. I think it dominates her.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)turbinetree
(24,703 posts)COP- OUT -------------its that simple:
cop-out
[ˈkäp ˌout]
NOUN
informal
1. an instance of avoiding a commitment or responsibility:
"being average is the lazy person's cop-out"
Powered by Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press
Honk--------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016
GarColga
(124 posts)Seriously, staying home on election day, or voting for a fringe candidate, is the same as voting Republican. We must not let a Republican into the White House this election. That is the important thing. I will gladly vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is. I couldn't care less about Hillary's transcripts.
turbinetree
(24,703 posts)its about transparency.
Sanders has already said he would release "all" of his transcripts, what does he have to hide-----
Clinton on the other hand has a lot to hide, which people does she want to work for a majority or a select few------------its real simple, if a majority elect you which majority do you Trust, the banking , Hedge fund clique , or the average Mr and Mrs John Doe .
This has been Clinton's problem since day one -------------------trust
jeff47
(26,549 posts)if Clinton is the nominee.
As a result, the only thing my meaningless vote provides is principle.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)oasis
(49,389 posts)Flatpicker
(894 posts)Just remember that if you don't vote, the alternative is Trump, Rubio, or Cruz.
"I just can't cast a vote for the lesser of the two evils, not this time."
Do you really mean that? I mean, that's pretty close to cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm not saying to give in yet. I hope Bernie comes out on top.
But there is no way I will just let those horrible people (not just as candidates, as humans) get the presidency without at least trying to stop it from happening.
alfredo
(60,074 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Realistically speaking, if Clinton wins the nomination.... she is the only choice for me. I am a democrat - and my vote is indeed held hostage because if I do not cast it for Clinton (provided she wins the nomination, which, I believe, is still up for grabs...) then it makes it that much more likely that we will end up with Rubio, Trump, Cruz, or whatever asshole the republicans nominate. This is a fact I cannot deny.
I absolutely agree that she should release the transcripts, for the sake of transparency and to demonstrate to the Country that she isn't afraid of the truth, that she is willing to stand by the things she says and does. I do not think though, that we are going to see those transcripts unless they are leaked by someone else. Frankly, I believe she is intimidated by the truth, that she is about as eager for transparency as the CIA - and that she will stand by whatever is most likely to improve her status in the polls.
Given where I stand politically, idealistically, my core principles and so on... I basically consider Clinton to be a Reagan democrat, or... a conservative democrat. Definitely not my favorite candidate - and I have a great many suspicions of my own in regards to her financial ties, history... what the heck she really, actually, truly stands for.
Shit. I really need to stop right there.
We cannot afford a republican Presidency, however we may feel about Clinton. We can't. Have you taken a look at the assholes in that clown car? They are scary, ladies and gentlemen - the very idea of Trump, Cruz, or Rubio being anywhere near the Presidency is fucking terrifying, especially if we cannot take back Congress or the Senate. Picture one of those asshats in the oval office, having access to that red button, having the willing and eager support of conservative republicans (controlling both the house and Senate) just as fucking crazy as they are... then we've got the Supreme court nominee...
I'd do pretty much anything to support Sanders - but if Clinton wins the nomination, regardless of my doubts, my vote will go to her because... the other side? They're inhumane, ignorant, cruel, deliberately, gleefully, willfully, happily corrupt wankpuffins who would sell their own mothers for a quarter.
The longer this Primary goes on, the less I like Clinton and the more I like Sanders - but my vote is for damn sure going to the democratic nominee, because the right winning this one is too catastrophic to contemplate. It cannot be allowed to happen. It's not just about ideology, principles... philosophies... it's about the fate of humanity, our planet. People with a large base that does not believe in climate change... are not even going to pretend to bother with it. They prefer war to peace, ignorance to enlightenment, bigotry to acceptance. We are not dealing with people who are even remotely rational, kind, or decent, on the other side of the fence here. If we were, perhaps I'd consider going third party if Clinton won.
It's a pretty big deal. At the very least, Clinton is not a rabid conservative frothing at the mouth, a climate change denier, a birther, or any of the other adjectives that could be used to describe the republican candidates.
Nope. Don't like her (before this primary heated up, I did, at least somewhat, like her... ignorance is bliss) but she's definitely better than any of the Republican candidates, by a long shot.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)MirrorAshes
(1,262 posts)And dangerously selfish if you step aside and usher in a republican president and right wing court. There will be real consequences for real people, immigrants deported, women and LGBT people discriminated against, climate change continued to be ignored... I hope you're pleased with your clear conscience as other people suffer.
840high
(17,196 posts)MirrorAshes
(1,262 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)MirrorAshes
(1,262 posts)And I respect you for it, distasteful as it may be for you.
Logical
(22,457 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)according to Mika Brzezinski a print reporter has them and since she is a good friend of the donald I am sure that the transcripts will be aired out during the GE at which point all prior Bernie supporters will be told to defend Hillary.... that is how insane her nomination by Democrats is becoming.... We will be defending her total disregard or classified information in her emails, we will be defending her yucking it up with the wall street fat cats, hell and that's probably not the only crap we will be defending... I am sick of this shit already...
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)doing the same thing with the transcripts as she did with her server. Come forward and tell the truth - stop prolonging this mess.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Nobody but Bernie fanatics care. It's a big so what. How about some more Benghazi hearings
840high
(17,196 posts)Hoppy
(3,595 posts)What does she have to lose.?
LeFleur1
(1,197 posts)Why should she release anything no one else has to release? What is the problem? Lots of people who are respected for their intellect give speeches. I know she's a woman and the rules have always been different for them, but you'd think in 2016 that would have changed and we'd have the same rules for all candidates. Yet we have some loud yeowling for different rules for the woman, even today.
Corey_Baker08
(2,157 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)Corey_Baker08
(2,157 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)Corey_Baker08
(2,157 posts)Arizona Roadrunner
(168 posts)Can Goldman-Sachs deduct cost of Clinton speeches ($650,000) from their tax obligation? If they can, then we as taxpayers are paying more taxes to offset that lost of revenue or we get fewer services.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)And none of the Hillary supporters here are urging you to vote for Clinton. It's your call.
greyl
(22,990 posts)madamesilverspurs
(15,805 posts)Lets go revisit Benghazi. Then we can make it retroactively illegal for her to use a private email server oh wait, theyre already working on that, along with making some emails retroactively classified. Okay, lets make it easy on ourselves and just call Ken Starr and ask to borrow his $75million files on her, theres gotta be something there, too...
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... other than BS supporters who are pinning their hopes on finding a "gotcha" comment - because they know the only way Bernie can win the nomination is if some major scandal knocks her out of the race.
They are the same people who are hoping against hope that Hillary will be led out of her house in handcuffs by the FBI.
Sorry, folks - ain't gonna happen. Bernie will just have to try to win based on his own merits - which doesn't look very likely.
Logical
(22,457 posts)If you don't think this will impact them.
I think you know it and I know it, she's smart enough to know that releasing them destroy her!
She's making she's made a calculated decision that not releasing them hurts her less than releasing!
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... about those transcripts, other than desperate BS supporters.
Do you really think the average voter is even thinking about this non-issue? If you stopped thirty people on the street and asked them who Goldman Sachs even is, I'd bet the most frequent answers you'd get is that they're personal injury lawyers who run ads on TV asking if you've been hurt in a car accident.
Logical
(22,457 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)Average voter doesn't care. HRC supporters don't care.
Fact remains that the only people who DO care are BS supporters hoping for a scandal that would knock HRC out of the race - because it's Bernie's only real shot at winning.
Logical
(22,457 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)Like making believe that Bernie can win the nomination by any other means than digging up a Hillary scandal.
Logical
(22,457 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)No doubt voters out there are losing sleep over this whole issue.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)Election-talk representations about how close she is with them. Reports are that it was very chummy "we" will join forces to stave off public outrage. Nothing desperate about wanting to understand whether she actually is trustworthy about her platform promising to reign them in. Goes right to the heart of things.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)Where are these "reports" coming from?
JudyM
(29,251 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)So now we're supposed to rely on the memories of people who attended, along with relying on their word?
Sorry, but no.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... is "more reliable" than direct quotes?
I don't believe I've ever heard such a ridiculous statement - ever.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)than recounting specific content of a speech, as far as memory of events goes.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)You're talking about an individual's ability to recall "as far as memory of events goes".
We're not talking about "memory events" here. We're talking about what someone actually said as opposed to how someone "remembers" them saying it.
The idea that an actual quote is "less reliable" than someone's recall of what was said is beyond absurd.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)The point of reference is necessarily the recollections of attendees at this point because Her Hillness has not deigned to permit us a view of the actual text.
So as between the choice, as I noted, of someone's recollection of the general meaning and tone, that is likely to be a fairly accurate memory, as a general rule.
To sleep, dear.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)IOW, the "characterizing" of what someone said is more reliable than what was actually said.
The most ludicrous statement I have ever seen anywhere. Ever.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)pkdu
(3,977 posts)if you'd rather see president Trump
ram2008
(1,238 posts)pkdu
(3,977 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)She's so moderate she even pled guilty to it.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)where the site hosts openly support HRC btw.
This is not GLITTERSHITTINGUNICORNUNDERGROUND.COM , I believe that site is still available should you wish to purchase it.
Progressive - sure , as much as possible
Realist - Cold Stone Mandatory
ram2008
(1,238 posts)So I'm not sure what your point is.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)So, yeah.
840high
(17,196 posts)pkdu
(3,977 posts)coyote
(1,561 posts)great white snark
(2,646 posts)Politics is for the big boys and girls.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Democracy depends on it.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Not Good Enough!!!!
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)Think of it as "I am not voting for Hillary, I AM VOTING AGAINST TRUMP."
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)...was unlikely to vote for her anyway!