A well written Hillary piece with an abhorrent sexist conclusion

[thesquanderer]

There's a piece being discussed in the Hillary group...

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/03/my_gen_x_hillary_problem_i_know_why_we_dont_like_clinton/

which does a great job at describing a particular women's perspective, but comes to this awful conclusion:

I suspect that the millennial women who are supporting Bernie may simply not have gotten to a place in life where they’ve experienced this kind of chronic, internalized, institutional sexism.

Wow.

Okay, the author has decided that, for her own personal reasons (having nothing to do with either candidate's positions) she will, essentially, vote for Hillary because she's a woman. Okay, more specifically, because she sees the prospect of a woman president as being a major success in the battle against sexism, and, as she put it, "until the world sees what it looks like for this country to have a female president, we’re going to forever be finding reasons not to vote for one." Well stated, but still essentially reduces to, yeah, because she's a woman. (Or at least, a woman who is acceptable. I will give her the benefit of the doubt that she would not necessarily have voted for Carly Fiorina.) But that's fine, it's defensible, and everyone has a right to vote for the candidate of their choice, for reasons of their choice.

But to then say that the millennial women who are NOT choosing Hillary simply haven't lived long enough to understand, as she does, that getting a woman in the WH is the most important thing a female voter can do? To so disrespect the independent thinking of other women, who just might have more than that one issue on their minds? To say that certainly, any woman who has experienced sexism must obviously put that above all else and vote to put a woman in the White House? That if you're a female voter, any other good you think either candidate might do for the country is automatically trumped by the benefit of having a female president? She may feel that way herself, but to be so dismissive of women thinking otherwise is pretty odiously sexist itself.

[Svafa]

1. That is incredibly offenensive and dismissive.

She can take pictures with Lena Dunham and the girls from Broad City all she wants, but the fact remains that Hillary is basically a lost cause among millennial women; comments like this from her supporters certainly aren't helping the cause.

[Kip Humphrey]

2. Marginalizing sexism, racism, and ageism will require societal intolerance.

Society and the status quo currently rely on sexism, racism, and ageism to function. Electing Hillary will do no more for marginalizing sexism than electing Barack Obama did in marginalizing racism. What is needed is a restructuring to remove society's reliance on and profiting from these scourges. What is needed is a revolution (see Bernie Sanders, circa 2016).

[Haveadream]

10. Electing Obama

had a seismic effect on AA's experience of possibilities for access to power and having a member of their community even able to be elected to the highest office. It was so unprecedented in a decidedly NOT post racial country that he was awarded the Nobel Prize for that astonishing achievement. Obama has addressed more racial issues during his time in office than any of the preceding Presidents combined. That fact that there is still an enormous amount of progress to be made means that challenging the racial and gender status quo in every arena has to happen more, not less. Representation makes a difference.

[thesquanderer]

12. That's an excellent point, that his election was a seismic event in the AA community.

And there were plenty of articles leading up to that election, asking whether America was "ready" for a black president. I suspect even Hillary didn't think he had a chance at the beginning, simply by virtue of his being black. It was an amazing thing to see, something many people of all backgrounds had thought of as an impossibility not too long before.

But... do you really think electing a female president would be remotely comparable? Pre-Obama, many people felt this country was far from being able to elect a black president. But do you think there are many people today who think it is unlikely we will have a female president before long? We've had national tickets in both parties with women in the VP slot. We've had women seriously campaign for it, again, in both parties. We've seen more than a token number of women Senators. We've seen Margaret Thatcher and others on the world stage. I don't think it seems nearly as unlikely (to the general population) as a black president seemed in the years before Obama. Back then, about a black president, many people said, nope, not gonna' happen in my lifetime. But I think most oft he general electorate think a woman president is inevitable, and it's just a matter of the right candidate at the right time... and moreover, they are not "scared" of it, as many feared a black presidency.

I am just unconvinced that a female president will change the view of american women about their gender's place in society, whereas your point about how Obama's election affected the AA community is well taken.

[noamnety]

3. It's one of the regular narratives this election.

Anyone under 45 is too ignorant and inexperienced to be trusted to vote well. Any specific issue can be footnoted onto that.

[Betty Karlson]

4. Debbie? Is that you?

[jeff47]

5. Gee, I wonder why Clinton is losing younger voters 30-70.

Attitudes like this couldn't possibly be responsible.

[thereismore]

6. I saw that. That was some mental equillibristics.

Quite revealing about that mindset.

[thesquanderer]

16. Though as you might expect, the piece is getting mostly raves in the Hillary group.

Though there are a few dissenters. I expect they've been banned from the group by now.

If anyone's curious, that thread is at http://www.democraticunderground.com/110762546

[oldandhappy]

7. I have a niece under 45. She is smart, capable, aware -- wonderful

And plotting a move to London. She still has to work. I am looking into Belize. Yes, millennial women have benefited greatly from the women ahead of them And they are continuing to question and push and evaluate. They want social justice and economic justice for all.

And I will write-in Bernie. Nice to know I can still vote as I wish, and this year as I want.

[dana_b]

15. my 26 yo daughter may look into Germany

I don't blame her.

And if ANYONE told her that she hasn't experienced institutional sexism?? She would blow a fuse.

[Dems to Win]

8. As a feminist, I simply cannot vote to return the Sexual Harasser in Chief to the White House

My conclusion is 180 degrees opposite the author.

[TubbersUK]

9. I just can't make head nor tail of this bit:

And I know that until the world sees what it looks like for this country to have a female president, we’re going to forever be finding reasons not to vote for one. I’m done finding those reasons. I’m voting for Hillary.

Did she intend to write 'the World' in this context - should it instead read 'America' ?

Or does she actually mean that the World won't progress in terms of women in leadership roles until America does ?

If it's the latter, has she failed to do her homework? I know there's always room for improvement in terms of women in leadership, but there have actually been quite a few female heads of state/prime ministers since the mid 20th century.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/17/first-female-presidents_n_7052066.html

[thesquanderer]

19. True, I doubt the women of the rest of the world are particularly invested...

...in the gender of the American president.

[artislife]

11. Did electing a PoC defeat racism?

Lets face it, we have to a lot of isms to work through. And we haven't gotten through the messy, hard part on any of them.

[thesquanderer]

14. That's a good point. There's a subthread above...

...beginning with Kip Humphrey's post (#2), where that is also talked about.

[marions ghost]

13. I believe that the issues of sexism MAY

very well lead to a Hillary victory. It's a very real motivator. Women --young and old-- do have a big axe to grind--a big one.

But I also believe that the "woman president" voters will be very disappointed if Hillary makes it. Nothing will change much for women, except we got a person who happens to be a woman president.

The lie of this makes me saddest of all.

[artislife]

18. Nod in agreement. nt

[CharlotteVale]

17. Nothing like ignoring the existence of countless female Bernie supporters who are Boomers!

Of course, we haven't experienced any chronic, internalized, institutional sexism at all.

These Clinton mouthpieces are such fucking hypocrites!

[MaggieD]

20. Oh please - it's not like everyone isn't aware that she....

.... is by far the most qualified candidate to run for president in decades. And I believe the author makes that point quite clearly.

Do you have a problem voting for an uber qualified women? 224 is not a long enough wait?

[thesquanderer]

23. I have no problem voting for an uber qualified woman

I just happen to prefer Sanders for a variety of reasons. As I would prefer Elizabeth Warren as well.

As for your other statement:

by far the most qualified candidate to run for president in decades. And I believe the author makes that point quite clearly.

Not arguing the point about being qualified, but do you really think the author made that particular point quite clearly? As I read it, I noticed a grand total of one sentence about Hillary's qualifications (other than being a woman, of course).

[Nuclear Unicorn]

21. Wait. Was this supposed to make me want to support Hillary?

[thesquanderer]

24. I think that is the point of the original article, yes. At least if you're a woman.

And I'm sure there's a lot in there that many relate to. I don't think it's bad at articulating a worthwhile perspective, but I think the author takes it a bit too far.

[Nonhlanhla]

22. Your post is a distortion

The authors's conclusion was: "I suspect that the millennial women who are supporting Bernie may simply not have gotten to a place in life where they’ve experienced this kind of chronic, internalized, institutional sexism."

Your interpretation of that is: "But to then say that the millennial women who are NOT choosing Hillary simply haven't lived long enough to understand, as she does, that getting a woman in the WH is the most important thing a female voter can do?"

Those are quite distinct arguments, especially if you read her whole piece (which I did earlier today). YOUR conclusion is an insluting one. The author's conclusion is a simple, logical one about why she, and most older women, feel more compelled to vote for Hillary (not all, of course): that younger women simply have not had the same experiences that those of us who are Gen Xers have had in the workplace and elsewhere, and that this will lead them to different conclusions. I know this from personal experience. Recognizing that simple fact is not saying that younger women are stupid or unable to think for themselves. It is merely recognizing that our personal experiences shape our voting choices.

I realize that you don't like this woman's conclusion, especially since she used to be a Bernie supporter. But are you so blinded by primary hatred that you cannot hear her story without attacking, and distorting what she is saying? Your attack sounds like a right wing attack, sorry to say. It sounds like exactly the kind of reactionary responses that right wingers give to women when we share our experiences of the multiple slights we endure everyday.

[thesquanderer]

26. We see it differently.

The way I see it, her personal experiences have led her to put an especially high value on seeing a woman in the White House, and I don't have an issue with that. She then goes on to say that younger women who prefer Bernie just haven't had the experiences she's had--and I think you and I agree up to that point--but to me, the logical extension of that thought is that if only they'd really experienced the kinds of sexism she's experienced, they too, would be willing to put other preferences aside in favor of putting a woman in the White House. I think that's presumptuous, judgmental, and insulting. But we can agree to disagree.

[Hekate]

25. I suggest you read the entire article at the link. The author is absolutely right.

For one thing, her experiences are her own and are real. For another thing, her observations of the workplace and society are also spot on. If you somehow feel that reality is dismissal and condescension, there's not a lot anyone can't do to disabuse you of that notion.

All I can do is urge the people replying in this thread to actually READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE.

[thesquanderer]

27. Of course I read the entire article. Was that not clear?

And I was also in part complimentary of the article. Absolutely, her experiences are her own and real, and I'm not questioning the relevance or validity of her observations, as they apply to her own life. It was her take on those who made a different choice, and why, that rubbed me the wrong way. (Also see my post #26 at http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1408949 )